Spaced69 Posted January 29, 2020 Author Share Posted January 29, 2020 I was really hopilg for a few track plans to help get me started as no idea where to start I do believe that on the long 20' straight could in clude a long sectioned tunnel with a cpl bridges and i could run a single or twin track above and potentially have 4 or 6 lines altogether on the long straight...how i can work that to the 8x4 is the next thing so hopin u guys can help Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 You can get a return loop onto an 8X4 with 2nd 3rd and 4th Radius track for 6 tracks on the level. You could even get 4 tracks round using 1st radius as well and a 1 in 48 grade to get 4 tracks back round under the visible part if you were prepared to rip up the present baseboard but while it would look great in a shop window it wouldn't be much of a layout. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaced69 Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 Yea i currently placed a huge return loop and got tons of track and considered the 3 loops and with possibility of another loop running above...im wondering what you guys would throw on an 8x4 and if i could get two ideas for the 8x4 then just figure out how to use the 20' run to connect them both. As said been nice to have a track running over others...love ideas of train bridges tunnels etc...im sure if sone experts were let loose in my loft they would create a stunning layout...regretfully ive never built a layout and im far far from being creative Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chimer Posted January 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2020 I'm not any sort of expert but I'm sure I could design something in that space that would tick some/most of my boxes. But I still haven't the first idea of what you want, beyond "bridges, tunnels and stations". For example, you've got 40 coaches, I think you said? What do you want to do with them when they're not running, i.e. do you want them all on view, which would mean lots of carriage sidings, or out of sight in a big fiddle yard representing the rest of the world, or off the layout in cassettes so they can easily be swapped in and out of play, or just in their boxes somewhere? Too many wagons to count - do you just want them running around in fixed rakes, or do you want a goods yard or marshalling yard of some sort so you can shunt them around? All those locos - in sight, which probably means a big shed, or stored somewhere until needed? Some of these things could be fitted onto the 8 x 4 boards, maybe ….. As I said before, there's no point in anyone putting in the many, many hours it would take to design a layout of that size without more clues as to what you might think is "awesome". And quite a few people asked you where the access hatch is - even if you don't want a full run down the other side, there might be scope for a fiddle yard one side or other of the hatch over there. Oh, and if you're adding another couple of boards following JP's visit, where are they going? Please, give us an extra clue or two!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaced69 Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) The loft hatch is in the middle of the opposite side from 20' run...i could potentially run a 6x2 at the end of the 8x4 for a fiddle yard and a similar on the other 8x4 for a terminus...i would like as much as possible on my layout but i know realistically that not all will go on...so will have excess stored to swap out...im not bothered about long platforms as will prob be using mainly dmu's and the other diesels will pull max 3 or 4 coaches...i can even extend the 13" width on long run in places to accommodate platforms. And as said im gonna try get two lines in a tunnel and two lines above and then a canal running down length with either one or two lines towards the front on the 20' stretch. Gonna be finishin insulation today...then will add the 6x2 runs to give almost a square shape....i cant extend any further as it will obstruct the loft hatch/ladders/access. Nothin ive said is set in stone and will alter if any ideas/plans are offered Edited January 30, 2020 by Spaced69 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaced69 Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 Even contemplated 3 loops and squeezing a single line from middle of 8x4 to middle of other 8x4 in an end to end sort of line Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted January 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) It's an awkward space. The 20ft long bit isn't really wide enough to do anything scenic (only maybe single and double track running along it) and the 4ft wide end boards aren't long enough for stations (probably). Some triangular fillets joining the end board to the long board might help. Edit: Something like this, perhaps: I'm not sure it really works because the roof braces still get in the way... Could you post a photo of the loft hatch side of the space so we can understand it better? Edited January 30, 2020 by Harlequin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaced69 Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 Already sorted triangular sections to joins so that i can curve the track onto the long straight...il post some pics soon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted January 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Harlequin said: It's an awkward space. The 20ft long bit isn't really wide enough to do anything scenic (only maybe single and double track running along it) and the 4ft wide end boards aren't long enough for stations (probably). Some triangular fillets joining the end board to the long board might help. Edit: Something like this, perhaps: I'm not sure it really works because the roof braces still get in the way... Could you post a photo of the loft hatch side of the space so we can understand it better? I visited Carl on Sunday morning so have a good understanding of the space. I have spent a couple of hours this morning drawing up one potential plan and we can certainly make it work without any triangular fillets. But, as others, have done, no reason not to built round the roof braces, whatever the baseboard system.. The loft hatch itself is about 11' from the left hand side along the lower edge. No difficulty in putting a double-track across a 4" wide "plank" over the hatch. Still leaves plenty of room for an emergency exit. The "plank" needs to be about 5' long to clear the ladder as it is raised to close the hatch. So we have plenty of room for a terminus/ through station bottom right and a fiddleyard bottom left. Having spoken to Carl, I think that I have a better understanding of what he wants to run, how he wants to run it (computer) and the scenic effects. Without a doubt, the best baseboard system for this space is L-girder. But I am having difficulty in getting Carl away from "flat earth" baseboards. There is also the possibility of using all that central space for a terminus (or two) running onto a continuous loop around the exterior as Clive Mortimore has done. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted January 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2020 18 hours ago, Spaced69 said: I was really hopilg for a few track plans to help get me started as no idea where to start I do believe that on the long 20' straight could in clude a long sectioned tunnel with a cpl bridges and i could run a single or twin track above and potentially have 4 or 6 lines altogether on the long straight...how i can work that to the 8x4 is the next thing so hopin u guys can help I think that we were hoping that you would come up with a dimensioned sketch of the loft so that we had something to work to. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) Given the constricted width and the OP's requirements I wonder if a station at the point where a four track section divides into two routes might work, bit like Northallerton ish. So one reverse loop feeds up slow/ up fast/down Fast/ down slow. The other Up Branch/ Down Branch/Up Main/ Down Main, Narrow site in cutting so only platforms on the outer (slow) lines. Possibly also a flyover. Lots of conflicting movements when you want them. trains trundling round when you don't.. Is this concept any good? Edit. Both plans tracks from left are paired by direction, slow lines on the outside. No room for more than 2 platforms and 4 tracks so any trains on fast lines have to cross to slow to stop at station. To the right the bottom tracks are main line and the top an important branch line Thinking North East, A1/A2?A3/V2 Deltic, Cl 40 etc on expresses non stop, ditto fish trains, Semi fast passenger which stop and cross from fast to slow with B1, D49, Slows occasionally down the slow line , but goods on the slow lines constantly getting stopped by occupied platforms. Goods stops just out of tunnel on visual bit, slow passenger overtakes, stops leaves and goods follows it. Gives loads of stopping and starting if you want. Lower plan has two level loops at right hand end. Either / Both could have sidings leading down other side of loft. I am pretty much out of action having hurt my back falling out of my loft (where my railway stuff lives) so will do another doodle when / if the pain killers ever kick in. Edited January 30, 2020 by DavidCBroad 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaced69 Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 Wow david read ur post and it made no sense to me at all...just shows u the naivety of myself....do apologise though as it sounds awesome just beyond my comprehension...lol Joseph has been a big help but even he has overwhelmed me...lol My only experience in layouts was a 2nd hand 8x4 when i was v young.. I should know more as grandparents...parents...uncles...aunts and some cousins all worked on the railway back when it was british rail in SE london...i spent most of.my life traveling on traon as father didnt drive and we all had free rail travel...i even went to school on the train from falconwood to barnhurst as went to erith school...probably why i like the dmu style trains as similar to the SE electric trains when younger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMay Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 If running a full loop back over the hatch is possible and practicable, as it is implied that it is, I would definitely go with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted January 31, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, TonyMay said: If running a full loop back over the hatch is possible and practicable, as it is implied that it is, I would definitely go with that. It would need to be a lift-out section so that the loft ladder can be stowed. But that is no great issue, especially if it is not given any (or minimal) scenic treatment. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chimer Posted January 31, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) Well …. here's the germ of an idea, in two parts with 8 feet of straightish track missing in the middle, because the system wouldn't accept the whole thing as a single picture. It's basically a double track terminus to fiddle yard arrangement, plus a single track dogbone. The junction bottom left allows a train leaving the FY to cross onto the dogbone and do a few laps before returning to the FY. The track curving into the right hand 8 x 4 from the terminus leads to an MPD, and the one curving into the left hand 8 x 4 leads to a goods yard (if you want them). The dogbone rises from the junction just enough to allow it to cross the main line on bridges in the vicinity of the terminus. It could (just) stay on the level and do its loop inside the run of the main line, at the cost of the access to the MPD. There is some scope for scenery including tunnels, particularly in the bottom right corner, and for some gentle curvature of the lines in the 20 x 1. And there is room for a lot of stock to stay on the tracks, depending on how the MPD and goods yard are laid out. Tightest curves set-track 3rd radius. Points a mix of long, short, medium and curved streamline. The fillets others have talked about are required. You would probably need manholes in all four corners for emergency access. A small child might come in handy ….. best of luck! Edit to say I thought the two diagrams would be one on top of the other, not side by side the wrong way round!! Edited February 1, 2020 by Chimer 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) My thoughts on it are that I'd much rather have a dog-bone type layout rather than a traditional roundy-roundy, so that trains appear to come back from the place they last went to rather than keep going the same way. My father's layout is laid out like that and is plenty of fun to operate, or just sit back and watch the trains. There is no computerised automation, but (analogue) block sections that allow several trains to orbit the main circuit at once. Here's his track plan (not to scale): More photos of the layout here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/53027759@N05/albums/72157703554873634/with/44985493205/ Incidentally, that layout's been in an uninsulated loft with bare timbers and breezeblock walls for over 20 years with no ill effect to the layout beyond some minor track expansion issues (which contracted back again), and a little distortion in some of the platform tops. However we've got very little done on it over the last few summers.... Edited January 31, 2020 by RJS1977 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMay Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) On 31/01/2020 at 03:54, Spaced69 said: Wow! David - I've read your post and it made no sense to me at all...just shows you my naivety, I do apologise though as it sounds awesome just beyond my comprehension...lol Joseph has been a big help but even he has overwhelmed me...lol My only experience in layouts was a 2nd hand 8x4 when I was very young.. I should know more as my grandparents...parents...uncles...aunts and some cousins all worked on the railway back when it was British Rail in SE London...I spent most of.my life travelling on trains as my father didn't drive and we all had free rail travel... I even went to school on the train from Falconwood to Barnehurst as I went to Erith School...probably why I like the DMU style trains as they are similar to the SE electric trains I saw when I was younger There is a nucleus of a good idea here, based on restricting the location and time period. SE London, or maybe Kent, an urban landscape with terraced housing. A junction maybe with a fly-over. Peco do imitation 3rd rail chairs. There are some RTR 3rd rail EMUs available now, though dedicated modellers will tend to build kits. The class 91 and mk4 coaches would be out of place. See https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/184-southern-electrics/ Edited February 1, 2020 by TonyMay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaced69 Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 Wow jrs...your dads layout is insanely awesome...hopin i get something going soon and have been inspired. Ive spent the last week insulating the loft to an extent....massive difference in temperature now...got some spare 4x2 ply so gonna try strengthening the 20' span by uprights and shelving underneath....then its definately get working on a layout plan. Thankyou also chimer...will be studying your.plan also. Hoping my new found friend joseph visits tomorow as he is very knowledgeable Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaced69 Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 Just to add...only idea ive come up with is to have 2 dogbone loops with the outer loop rising both ends so that they run across a sectioned tunnel down the long and returning on the edge of the long straight and the inner dogbone running through the tunnel or if possible one track in the tunnel and other next to the outer loop allowing and end to end through the tunnel to the middle of th 8x4's for a big station at each end...i could then have a fiddle yard just off the bottom of one 8x4 and a teminus coming off the end of the other 8x4...obviously they would have to join to the outer loop.....as said its only a thought and best i could come up with...lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 As I got reminded in another thread, trackplans don't have to match the space to provide inspiration. Perhaps it might be worth your time looking through online trackplans (or even layout pictures) and look for parts of a layout that interest you and might be able to better express to others what you would like to do. It could be a particular station design, maybe a bridge you like the look of, etc. Perhaps then, by taking bits and pieces of other layouts, you can come up with something that expresses what you would like to try and achieve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aire Head Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 15 hours ago, Spaced69 said: Just to add...only idea ive come up with is to have 2 dogbone loops with the outer loop rising both ends so that they run across a sectioned tunnel down the long and returning on the edge of the long straight and the inner dogbone running through the tunnel or if possible one track in the tunnel and other next to the outer loop allowing and end to end through the tunnel to the middle of th 8x4's for a big station at each end...i could then have a fiddle yard just off the bottom of one 8x4 and a teminus coming off the end of the other 8x4...obviously they would have to join to the outer loop.....as said its only a thought and best i could come up with...lol I'm quite happy to pull together a plan but without knowing how long you want your trains to be it's hard to plan stations and goods yards! I know that I personally would want to be running 30+ 9'/10' wheel base wagons and 10+ coaches in the space you have but that doesn't leave any room for multiple stations and levels like you were asking? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaced69 Posted February 2, 2020 Author Share Posted February 2, 2020 Another great visit from joseph...great idea and helpfull everytime...still weary of the lift out part but ur the expert...lol Thankyou for.your help and offer of the flexible track...noticed that i do have a lotnof steel hope u can return soon so i can get something to mess about with Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaced69 Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 Ive attached a drawing of baseboard plan I plan to be running no more than 4 coaches plus loco n dummy in case of the 125's and my dmu's are max 3 coaches...i am not too fussed on pulling tons of carriages but like idea of stations...bridges...tunnels...multi level etc Loops are def required as id like a few trains automated and a cpl i can operate or automate As joseph suggested a lift out section over loft is possible...not ideal but if required it can be included Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aire Head Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Spaced69 said: Ive attached a drawing of baseboard plan I plan to be running no more than 4 coaches plus loco n dummy in case of the 125's and my dmu's are max 3 coaches...i am not too fussed on pulling tons of carriages but like idea of stations...bridges...tunnels...multi level etc Loops are def required as id like a few trains automated and a cpl i can operate or automate As joseph suggested a lift out section over loft is possible...not ideal but if required it can be included What is the width of the sections either side of the loft hatch? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaced69 Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 (edited) Il measure loft hatch area later, but the ladders push up and lay in the loft to the right side of hatch as portrayed in diagram...this is why a lift out section is in question...as id have to remove it everytime im finished...if i could avoid lift out secrion i would, but realise that leaves me with dogbone loops which i dont have no problem with....its all about getting the maximun from all space provided and as many locos running as possible safely...i realise most add things later...but prefer a good plan to make the most of space i have and have all the scenry...tunnels...bridges...crossovers and whatever ppl can think of Edited February 3, 2020 by Spaced69 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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