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Why So Few BR 06 locomotives ?


maico
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Over the decades it seems only Brawa has made the BR06 loco in any numbers. With it's 4 driven axles it's a purposeful machine.

But the Lemaco is very expensive and the Brawa plagued with terminal zinc-rot in the main body in the black first series models.

 

Have Roco-Fleishmann, Piko or Trix ever made it ?

 

http://www.modellbau-wiki.de/wiki/BR_06

 

Brawa

 

 

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B40215-Triebwerk.JPG

(Foto © Frits Osterthun)

 

Edited by maico
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Seeing that it was a bit of an odd ball experimental design, of which only two were built and neither saw much use, I am surprised that any model has been made.

As an experiment it was a dead end.

I do not know how well the Brawa model has sold but I can't see any other company taking a punt.

Bernard

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On 21/01/2020 at 20:38, Bernard Lamb said:

Seeing that it was a bit of an odd ball experimental design, of which only two were built and neither saw much use, I am surprised that any model has been made.

 

Apologies for going slightly off topic, but considering its rarity, it amuses me that both locomotives turn up in the World War Two-set PlayStation game "Medal of Honor" as 'German Armoured Engines'... in occupied France no less.  I guess the American-based game designers just hunted through books or the net for German locomotives and picked the design that looked both imposing, but with an easy body shape to render in the graphics engine...

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Only 2 ever built.

Built in 1939

Both scrapped in 1951- so 12 years service.

From 1939 to 1945 (so half of the service life) they carried a livery (the swastika) that cannot legally be accurately reproduced on a model for sale in Germany and Austria - the main markets I would suggest.

This period (WW2) is not the main one for most German/Austrian modellers.  There remains something of a guilt conscience even in those born well after the war.  Those that do model this era tend to be very circumspect about what and how they model it.

It has already been done - faults and all.

 

Not a lot going for it, is there?

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I think the Brawa BR06 was probably a slow but steady seller from 2001 to 2011. Six different liveries were eventually made.

 

Currently Brawa make the experimental BR 19.01 loco made in 1941 by Henschel with advanced drive train. It saw limited service but the potenial was clear, running at 186 kmh within the restrictions of wartime. The Americans shipped it to the US and scrapped it postwar.

 

Lemaco have also made it.

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Werksbild_Henschel_19.1001_ohne_Verkleidungen.jpg

Edited by maico
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50 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

There is of course the point that they were only built as a vanity project to please the boss.

Bernard

In the second half of the thirties many "innovations" including streamlining were tried to improve steam locomotion all around the world and also in Germany. And all around the world there were successes and failures. I do not see what your remark has to do with it.

Regards

Fred

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On 23/01/2020 at 21:09, maico said:

Era II is (1925-1945) is certainly very popular. The German eagle predates WW1 of course, the 2018-19 Trix E19 model shows how the small Third Reich bit is removed.

 

 

 

Yes Era 2 is still well supported, but the period 39-45 within it tends to be avoided.  It is a weakness of the era system that it gives coarse detail but not fine detail.  Incidentally I am a fan of the era system despite its limitations.  Many ways have been found to provide the impression of a swastika without actually reproducing it.  Many will accept the compromise, others cannot.  Those that do, tend to model 33 - 36 and few beyond that.  The main support for the 36-45 period lies outside DACH - just like the main support for WW2 war films.

 

Lemaco, along with other (fine quality) model makers like Micrometakit, Fulgurex, Metrop etc specialise/have specialised in high price, high quality models sold in very limited numbers to mainly collectors.  As such they can chose exactly the models that would not necessarily sell well in a mass market or against other existing models.

Edited by Andy Hayter
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Yes you will find exceptions.  Models have been made.  But how well did they sell and where?  I note your video comes from Italy and not DACH.

 

You might equally well have trotted out models of the Leopold gun.

 

In 17 years living, working and modelling in Germany I do not recall seeing a single layout at an exhibition set during the war years.  Nor do I recollect reading articles in the model press apart from Nurnberg announcements or announcements of the actual release.  I saw few models at the various model bring and buy sales - but that could mean that those who have them do not want to sell.  

 

I do know that my German friends and colleagues would ask about the British/American obsession for the WW2 period and why that was.   They found it unnerving and a little objectionable.    That reaction perhaps explains in part why there are not masses of models for this period - some yes, but not masses.  The UK market is different and you only have to flick through the pages here to see the "When are Hornby/Dapol/Bachmann going to bring out an XXX in wartime black" to see that.

 

You asked why and I and others have tried to give a reasoned answer.  At the end of the day you can find as many examples as you like to try and prove me wrong but it won't make one iota of difference to Maerklin, Roco, Lilliput or Piko.   They know their markets and build models to suit them.

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8 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

.............Maerklin, Roco, Lilliput or Piko.   They know their markets and build models to suit them.

 

This is interesting. Would you say that these manufacturers predominantly produce models for the German market?

 

Do you have any experience of the plastic kit modelling fraternity at all? Does the lack of WW2 modelling in railways translate to model armour, aeroplanes, ships/U-Boats etc?  Revell  have produced a number of U-Boats and German Navy ships, along with many wartime Luftwaffe aircraft. I've never been able to ascertain if these are/were Revell Germany or Revell USA products originally, but I've always assumed the former.  Do these sell well in Germany or perhaps they are targeted to the international audience?

 

I have to say the BR06 looks very fine indeed; most handsome. The 19.01 less so.......

 

Best

 

Scott

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My Guess would be that Maerklin certainly looks at the German speaking DACH* market as its homeland.  It must be remembered that the German market is viewed as being bigger than the UK one.  Not surprising with 30% bigger population and a strong history in engineering and engineering type toys.

 

* DACH from the car international identification letters - D=Germany; A = Austria; CH = Switzerland.

 

That DACH Focus is probably less so with the other mentioned producers.

Around 2/3rds of the German H0 market is Maerklin (probably even more) and ties customers into its 3 rail/stud 16V AC system.  Once you've got them they find it difficult to change and it becomes a self propagating market.  Fathers had Maerklin and buy Maerkin for their sons - probably donating bits as well; as does granddad.  It is probably not as strong in Austria and Switzerland but is still strong.  Maerklin certainly does have markets outside DACH as well but I would doubt they are anything like as big as the home market.

 

Roco, as the Austrian producer treats this as home market, but has always seen themselves as the lead H0 supplier of 12V DC in Germany.  This was probably not true until Fleischmann ran into troubles and was taken over by Roco.  I think you can already see that its market potential was relatively restricted, so it also looked to its historic trading partners from the former Austro-Hungarian Empire and made models for the Eastern European markets.  It also expanded to provide models further afield such as France.

 

Liliput started like in Austria and has always looked to DACH as its main market.

 

Piko focused earlier on TT for the E German market and relatively later moved to H0 as the core market.  As a relatively late comer to the H0 market it has developed models for a broader European market.

 

Regarding non-railway kit market, I was not really exposed to it.  Model railway exhibitions were largely just that.  Dortmund was the exception which is a model exhibition rather than a pure model railway one.  Because of my interests I did not pay much attention to the wider kit market I am afraid.  Likewise model railway bourses really did focus on model railways and things that would complement a railway, so you would find model cars, buses and lorries suitably scaled for the common railway scales, but little evidence of the 1:72 scale military models.  I am sure they must exist in the German market, but how popular  they are I could not estimate.

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On ‎23‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 21:45, sncf231e said:

In the second half of the thirties many "innovations" including streamlining were tried to improve steam locomotion all around the world and also in Germany. And all around the world there were successes and failures. I do not see what your remark has to do with it.

Regards

Fred

On another thread recently there was a comment about "the elephant in the room" in respect of this period in German history.

In Germany there were several classes of streamlined locomotive and some did a very good job in performing the tasks that they were designed to do.

These two machines however were larger than any other locomotives ever built in Germany.

I would disagree with the service notes in a previous reply that quoted a 12 year life span.

One was damaged by bombing and the other saw little if any use post war.

I have seen a figure for the cost of the experiment, yes that is the word used for these machines, It was a fantastic amount but as it was quoted in Reich Marks it would be of little help to provide the figure.

I believe that this information is enough to back up my claim about these machines being a vanity project to please the boss.

Jut watch out for that elephant.

Or do I need to spell it out?

Bernard 

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On 23/01/2020 at 23:33, Andy Hayter said:

Yes you will find exceptions.  Models have been made.  But how well did they sell and where?  I note your video comes from Italy and not DACH.

 

You might equally well have trotted out models of the Leopold gun.

 

In 17 years living, working and modelling in Germany I do not recall seeing a single layout at an exhibition set during the war years.  Nor do I recollect reading articles in the model press apart from Nurnberg announcements or announcements of the actual release.  I saw few models at the various model bring and buy sales - but that could mean that those who have them do not want to sell.  

 

I do know that my German friends and colleagues would ask about the British/American obsession for the WW2 period and why that was.   They found it unnerving and a little objectionable.    That reaction perhaps explains in part why there are not masses of models for this period - some yes, but not masses.  The UK market is different and you only have to flick through the pages here to see the "When are Hornby/Dapol/Bachmann going to bring out an XXX in wartime black" to see that.

 

You asked why and I and others have tried to give a reasoned answer.  At the end of the day you can find as many examples as you like to try and prove me wrong but it won't make one iota of difference to Maerklin, Roco, Lilliput or Piko.   They know their markets and build models to suit them.

 

I had a look at my 2019 Trix catalogue and there are 5 different coaches from the German State Railroad era in N scale like this

 

https://www.trix.de/produkte/details/article/15803

 

I have the Ho Markin versions (fitted with DC wheels) which cover the Swiss and German era I model.

 

The streamlined BR01.1 has been produced by just about everyone through the years and clearly sells.

Bellow is the

2014 Roco

2004 Fleischmann (the red version was on the market for years)

2006 Lilliput

 

 

 

Roco_68163_BR_01.10_DRG_01_1090.jpg

01_1059_Fl7174.jpg

01_1090_Liliput111113.jpg

FleishmannNewHerfst2012-991222.jpg

Edited by maico
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If a loco is a failure or only one was made doesn't mean it wont be modelled of course. For example, the cab forward version of the streamline BR05 wasn't a success and was converted back to conventional postwar.

Marklin-Trix have make it in maroon and black. At the cheaper end Lilliput from 2010 on. At the high end Micrometakit and Micro-Feinmechanik . So although somewhat of a niche product all bases are covered....

 

 

 

 

 

The conventional BR05 Lilliput in photographic gray looks rather good...

Liliput_05_003_grau.jpg

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1 hour ago, maico said:

 

I had a look at my 2019 Trix catalogue and there are 5 different coaches from the German State Railroad era in N scale like this

 

https://www.trix.de/produkte/details/article/15803

 

I have the Ho Markin versions (fitted with DC wheels) which cover the Swiss and German era I model.

 

The streamlined BR01.1 has been produced by just about everyone through the years and clearly sells.

Bellow is the

2014 Roco

2004 Fleischmann (the red version was on the market for years)

2006 Lilliput

 

 

 

Roco_68163_BR_01.10_DRG_01_1090.jpg

01_1059_Fl7174.jpg

01_1090_Liliput111113.jpg

I assume the cut outs by the pony truck were unprototypical?

Were they roller shutters over the wheels?

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With regard to "only two ever made" - the S2/6 was only ever a single loco.  Brawa got it out in several liveries before Marklin/Trix  did the same thing.  This included the DRG BR15 of which there is no evidence that it actually existed as anything other than a roster number. 

I'm also not convinced that the Marklin and Brawa S2/6 are produced by different manufacturers, either.

 

We may still see the "armoured" BR06 in matrix packaging yet.

 

An important historical point is that The Flying Hamburger streamlined, diesel railcar had been operating since 1932 and seriously challenging steam producers.

These late thirties s/l locos reflect the steam builders' response to that challenge.

 

I have both Marklin's BR05 in 1938 black paint; as well as the Winter camo BR53.  I'm stumped as to what I can haul with either...

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Upon belatedly viewing the video and re-reading some posts:

 

Artitec is your friend for all the WWII vehicle models, including tanks; and the heavy flatbed wagons. They do and astounding array of landscaping models.

Marklin did several sets that have P109 planes as the cargo

Liliput did 2 or 3 versions of U-Boats, I think one even in Prussian markings.

The coach set appears to be from Liliput, also.

 

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