Failures...

[AberdeenBill]

Hi all,

 

We often read about diesels 'failing' or being 'declared a failure', leading to rare haulage etc., but what component(s) typically failed?   I suppose it's almost self-evident, but did common failure modes vary from class to class?

 

Thanks,

Bill

 

[royaloak]

Simple things like a wiper defect to complete engine, generator, alternator failure and everything in between.

[Davexoc]

Could be lots of things, from simple things like faulty windscreen wiper or lights, to more complex like earth fault or AWS wrongside failure. Then of course there is low coolant, fuel or oil pressure, or good old flat batteries.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Bolshy footplate staff.

 

Mike.

[Edwin_m]

I believe failure of the electric ring for the kettle was a common reason to fail the loco.  I was reading on another forum that most of Manchester Piccadilly was blocked because one of the new units failed having allegedly had some beverage spilled into the electrics under the desktop.  So the British railway still runs on tea!  

[Phil Bullock]

In the middle of winter failure of the steam heating boiler was not popular.....but was common, particularly in early days eg 62-63.

 

The interface between mechanics and electrics are vulnerable in any sophisticated machine ... so often it was "faults" such as high temperature or low coolant which subsequently turned out to be a faulty output from the sensor rather than the actual fault itself.

[BrushVeteran]

I think there was more 'tolerance' when the footplate crew needed to get home!

[Rugd1022]

I had a rather spectacular failure on 66 567 last weekend when working 6Y77 from Toton to Bedford, I was on full power on the Up Fast going past Kilby Bridge Junction, there was a very loud bang and lots of metallic scraping noises followed by smoke in the cab, the 'crankcase pressure' message appeared in the EMDEC screen and I came to silent halt alongside the old station at Great Glen. Complete failure declared and I sat there for over two hours awaiting assistance. Luckily the fast lines are both bi-directional so the Bobby was able to have train round me on the down. It's the second time this has happened to me in two months...!

Edited January 26, 2020 by Rugd1022

[Oldddudders]

Turbocharger failure is not unknown. I recall about 50 years ago the signalman on nights at Three Bridges saying a Crompton (Class 33 to the younger set) was billowing black smoke, which pointed to that. Favourite failure report seemed to be 'loss of amps' which is a bit half-baked as a description, but indicates a problem!

[PaulRhB]

Stones off a passing ballast train smashing windows failed a loco on one trip, heater not working so unable to defrost front window on a 47, Horns frozen solid, flywheel falling off the 159’s engine and bouncing off into the bushes, driveshaft going up through the floor! 

 

Oh and computer says no!

 

 The causes are endless. 

Edited January 26, 2020 by PaulRhB

[keefer]

I'm sure I read somewhere (possibly in the Railway Observer) about a cl. 08 that was our of use for a while as they discovered a bird nesting in the engine bay!

A case of waiting a couple of weeks until the chicks fledged

[The Stationmaster]

The diesel hydraulics of course had some special entertainment all of their own.  Gearbox problems were not unknown (Hymeks were good at that at one stage hence the experimental derating of half the class while the other half had 2nd gear locked out) and could make spectacular noises.  But they did have the handy situation of having only the one gear box and it was possible to make manual changes on that box - possible but not easy.  1000s, in particular and in their later years developed a nasty habit of drive shafts breaking and the resultant bits shooting out in all directions  - I spent the most of one Easter weekend at Blatchbridge Jcn trying to find all the pieces from one such event as the engineering types were rather keen to see them, some very interesting looking fatigue fractures.  But usually with two lots of power the loco could keep going provided the flying bits didn't damage anything essential.

[Gwiwer]

Anything which does not work safely to the satisfaction of the train crew is a failure.  We have plenty of examples above.  In my limited experience "loss of amps" was a common one and afflicted class 33 when they replaced class 42 on Waterloo - Exeter duties.   

 

I was a schoolboy with notebook in hand when a "Warship" attached to the front of a train at Penzance was described as "spitting sparks" and had to be removed.  I experienced the same problem many years later driving a bus - in the dark of the early morning sparks were emitted from the exhaust which caused me to stop and summon assistance immediately.  On another occasion the train loco from Penzance was "Western Thunderer" which departed in a cloud of black and blue oily smoke and promptly pulled up with half the train still in the platform.  As a passenger was heard to say "That didn't thunder very far, then".  

 

Awaiting my departure from Salisbury in the last days of class 42 haulage on that route the train arrived with the rear half of the loco and both the front two carriages covered in diesel fuel having ruptured a fuel line at some point since its previous stop at Andover.  

 

A rather less specific failure occurred on a DMU the first time I travelled the Central Wales line from Swansea to Shrewsbury.  After a time switching switches and generally poking around in the cab the driver pronounced, in a thick west Wales accent, that "There's something wrong here - definitely".  Which occasioned an unusual working because that was the cab which should have led from Llanelli northwards.  Instead the train departed towards Neath, reversed via the Landore Loop all the way to Llanelli, with the guard acting as lookout from the leading "something wrong" cab and the driver in the rear cab.  The booked reversal at Llanelli saw the defective cab once more at the rear of the train and we proceeded somewhat behind time and therefore somewhat liberally interpreting a few speed restrictions.  

Edited January 26, 2020 by Gwiwer

[PaulRhB]

On one rail tour we failed several 47’s First with sparks from the exhaust at Birmingham, second had the front windows smashed by ballast after a 37 passed us at speed with seacows, third was taken off at Crewe with oil now all over the bodyside and we swapped back to the first loco at Birmingham as it was ‘fixed’. We left the train at Bath with a spectacular display of sparks and flame from the exhaust as it left . . . Never heard if it made it back!

Edited January 26, 2020 by PaulRhB

[Phil Bullock]

6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

The diesel hydraulics of course had some special entertainment all of their own.  Gearbox problems were not unknown (Hymeks were good at that at one stage hence the experimental derating of half the class while the other half had 2nd gear locked out) and could make spectacular noises.  But they did have the handy situation of having only the one gear box and it was possible to make manual changes on that box - possible but not easy.  1000s, in particular and in their later years developed a nasty habit of drive shafts breaking and the resultant bits shooting out in all directions  - I spent the most of one Easter weekend at Blatchbridge Jcn trying to find all the pieces from one such event as the engineering types were rather keen to see them, some very interesting looking fatigue fractures.  But usually with two lots of power the loco could keep going provided the flying bits didn't damage anything essential.

 

And wasnt there something about over-enthusiastic application of power on Hymeks bending cardans Mike?

 

[MarkC]

8 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

I had a rather spectacular failure on 66 567 last weekend when working 6Y77 from Toton to Bedford, I was on full power on the Up Fast going past Kilby Bridge Junction, there was a very loud bang and lots of metallic scraping noises followed by smoke in the cab, the 'crankcase pressure' message appeared in the EMDEC screen and I came to silent halt alongside the old station at Great Glen. Complete failure declared and I sat there for over two hours awaiting assistance. Luckily the fast lines are both bi-directional so the Bobby was able to have train round me on the down. It's the second time this has happened to me in two months...!

Leg out of bed?

 

Mark

[Simon Lee]

Legs out of bed on a 60 are quite impressive and costly. The Deltics are the most famous for it, a former colleague of a portly build hated tending the boiler on 55s. It was a struggle for him to get past the PU to the boiler,  one train he had to check the boiler, the driver shut off to give him a modicum of peace to pass the PU, Paul just got into the boiler area when his mate opened up again and out came a piston from the cylinders bank closest to him. 30 seconds earlier it would have taken him out. He positively hated 55s after that.

[Davexoc]

I once rode a 47 that had been investigated for power earth faults and had been deemed OK for a light test run. Remarkably on the late shift there was a driver available so off we went towards Slough. The box put us over to the down main and once we were on it and opened up it all went wrong, amps built and fault light went bright. Run into the engine room, reset the relay and isolate a pair of traction motors, and try again. The same, so try a different pair of motors. Same again so must be the last pair, but no, same yet again. As a last resort, try all the motor combinations with four isolated, all to no avail, and now we are crawling along the down main holding everything up coming out of Paddington. So no choice, stop and use the phone alongside Southall depot to get off and run back to Old Oak on the up relief at low speed.

Eventual arrival back in the Factory was greeted with, 'Knew you were coming back, had a right earbashing from control about you delaying all the down services'.

I found the fault after lifting half the floor plates in the engine room, the wooden cleats that clamp the bus bars out of the main generator were tracking to earth. I could just about hear and see the sparking with the lights out. Now as it wasn't our loco and to fix it was an engine lift, it was dispatched to home depot.....

[Pandora]

I read of a diesel loco failing,  the external  MU cables had been stowed  but in the worng socket,  the loco thought it was in multiple with a phantom loco.

 

Most of my engine failures have been the  electromechanical  stop solenoid, the solenoid failing and shutting the engine down

[St Enodoc]

15 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Turbocharger failure is not unknown. I recall about 50 years ago the signalman on nights at Three Bridges saying a Crompton (Class 33 to the younger set) was billowing black smoke, which pointed to that. Favourite failure report seemed to be 'loss of amps' which is a bit half-baked as a description, but indicates a problem!

In my Haymarket days a driver reported "Low amps" in the repair book. The remedial action was "Amps topped up".

[St Enodoc]

6 hours ago, Simon Lee said:

Legs out of bed on a 60 are quite impressive and costly. The Deltics are the most famous for it,

Just about every Eastern Region and Scottish Region office in the 60s and 70s sported an ashtray fashioned from a Deltic piston crown.

[Enterprisingwestern]

11 hours ago, Simon Lee said:

Legs out of bed on a 60 are quite impressive and costly. The Deltics are the most famous for it, a former colleague of a portly build hated tending the boiler on 55s. It was a struggle for him to get past the PU to the boiler,  one train he had to check the boiler, the driver shut off to give him a modicum of peace to pass the PU, Paul just got into the boiler area when his mate opened up again and out came a piston from the cylinders bank closest to him. 30 seconds earlier it would have taken him out. He positively hated 55s after that.

 

11 hours ago, Simon Lee said:

Legs out of bed on a 60 are quite impressive and costly. The Deltics are the most famous for it, a former colleague of a portly build hated tending the boiler on 55s. It was a struggle for him to get past the PU to the boiler,  one train he had to check the boiler, the driver shut off to give him a modicum of peace to pass the PU, Paul just got into the boiler area when his mate opened up again and out came a piston from the cylinders bank closest to him. 30 seconds earlier it would have taken him out. He positively hated 55s after that.

 

20 minutes ago, Simon Lee said:

Legs out of bed on a 60 are quite impressive and costly. The Deltics are the most famous for it, a former colleague of a portly build hated tending the boiler on 55s. It was a struggle for him to get past the PU to the boiler,  one train he had to check the boiler, the driver shut off to give him a modicum of peace to pass the PU, Paul just got into the boiler area when his mate opened up again and out came a piston from the cylinders bank closest to him. 30 seconds earlier it would have taken him out. He positively hated 55s after that.

 

3 times?

 

Mike.

[25901]

I remember when we got our class 20 , we had a look at a few parked up with it and they had all been withdrawn/failed on daft things. Second man seat not turning(pointless on a pair of 20s), light dimmer switch not working, vac exhauster not working and the all time classic, cooker not getting hot enough.

[The Stationmaster]

14 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

 

And wasnt there something about over-enthusiastic application of power on Hymeks bending cardans Mike?

 

Possibly Phil although that's not one I came across in any reports but the splines on the shafts were taking one heck of a lot of torque when you think about. (that seemed to have been the usual place for fatigue fractures on cardan shafts on 1000s from what I was told (hence me being asked to hunt for pieces on one occasion).

 

The big problem on Hymeks was originally that gear change to 2nd as I mentioned previously although they were subject to various other faults which were I think electrical related and the EPvalve could play up on them.  1000s had an amusing little habit of apparently not reversing when first asked but there was a helpful button called 'Tooth on tooth test' and pressing that was the usual cure so Drivers were well used to it from an early stage on the locos.

 The Swindon 'Warships' had one very entertaining habit when new  - not necessarily a failure situation of course - of levitating floor boards in the centre of the cab which put them above part of the transmission and the vibration/harmonics from the transmission caused the floor boards to rise up into the air.  That one was cured by bolting down the boards but it could still be an 'interesting' experience standing in the centre of the cab floor at certain speeds.

 

[Rugd1022]

14 hours ago, MarkC said:

Leg out of bed?

 

Mark

 

It may well have been Mark, but the smoke coming from the engine room into the cab was eye wateringly bad so I didn't get a proper look. The internal walkway floor was covered in oil too so I didn't venture any further into the darkness!