Accuracy of Lima LMS GUV 37762

[The Johnster]

On 31/01/2020 at 14:28, Dunsignalling said:

Here's one I did (much) earlier (1996 I think, but overhauled last year with its second set of Bachmann bogies.

 

The new camera is unforgiving of my somewhat shanky weathering and I notice the wheels have yet to receive my usual application of Humbrol 98...

 

Recipe is, Buffers and roof vents, Comet. glazing SEF, bogies Bachmann, wheels Gibson, couplers, Kadee in Keen CCUs, brake wheels Cambrian.

 

My first attempt at what seemed (at the time) a fairly major bit of hacking. It's No.008 in my carriage register.

Aw, heck, now I've got to do better or at least as well, so the shopping list just got longer, now includes roof vents and brake wheel!  I picked up a s/h Dapol suburban BT at Lord and Butler's yesterday and will be using that as a bogie donor.

[Simon60]

Re the Bachmann Bogies...

The one I’ve found listed are

36-005A Mk1

36-007A Bulleid 

36-008A Commonwealth

36-024 LMS

36-037 B4

36-038 Y25

 

Am assuming the LMS GUV takes 36-024 LMS which I take it are for NPCS

 

Supplementary at a tangent

Conversion of Hornby GWR Siphon G is advised by some on another thread to take American Bogies 

Are these available by Bachman?

Showing my ignorance, are they on that list I’ve just quoted 

[Simon60]

Just found a Stafford Road Works - Shapeways entry for

GWR 8’ & 9’ bogies

assume they would do for the siphon G

[Enterprisingwestern]

18 minutes ago, Simon60 said:

Re the Bachmann Bogies...

The one I’ve found listed are

36-005A Mk1

36-007A Bulleid 

36-008A Commonwealth

36-024 LMS

36-037 B4

36-038 Y25

 

Am assuming the LMS GUV takes 36-024 LMS which I take it are for NPCS

 

Supplementary at a tangent

Conversion of Hornby GWR Siphon G is advised by some on another thread to take American Bogies 

Are these available by Bachman?

Showing my ignorance, are they on that list I’ve just quoted 

 

American from MJT only at the mo.

 

Mike.

[Simon60]

Thanks Mike

[Dunsignalling]

The Bachmann 36-024 are the ones I used on the LMS GUV pictured.

 

GWR Siphons carried a variety of bogies ranging between 7' and 9' but the wheelbase alone is not sufficient identification, i.e. several types of bogie were fitted to different Siphons at different times and swaps did occur.  The 9' pressed steel type on the Airfix/Dapol/Hornby models are probably more suited to the Lima inside frame Siphon G in place of the wholly incorrect BR type it came with.  The 9' "American" type is not available from any r-t-r source.

 

My preferred supplier for those is Dart Castings, who nowadays make the MJT range. They do a very nice fold-up brass "universal" inner bogie to which you add your chosen sides which are whitemetal castings, and also offer a neat fold-up brass NEM pocket to fit the inner bogie unit,  

 

It's a fairly involved subject and my advice is to buy or borrow a copy of GW Siphons, by Jack N. Slinn and Bernard K. Clarke (published by HMRS).

 

John

 

  

Edited February 5, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[Simon60]

Great thanks 

 

To return to the main thread having made a journey into GWR matters rather than my GUV

 

 - Am I right over the LMS GUV taking 36-024 LMS Bachmann

[TheSignalEngineer]

32 minutes ago, Simon60 said:

 

 - Am I right over the LMS GUV taking 36-024 LMS Bachmann

That's what I used.

[The Johnster]

To return for a moment to Siphons, G and H (I’ll come back to topic, promise), my ex-Airfix H has Stafford Road/Shapeways American bogies, not cheap but nicely detailed and v. Good runners with Hornby wheels.  I also have an ex-Airfix outside framed G on it’s original plate frame bogies.  The plate frames from the H have been used beneath an ex-Lima G, replacing the incorrect Lima BR B1s,?attached by press studs. 
 

Following? Good.  Now, back OT, the s/h Lima LMS GUV arrived today.  Stanier bogies from a donor Replica LMS suburban will go under this, probably also attached with press studs. 
 

I’m pleasantly surprised by the level of detail beneath the solebar, bogies apart of course; there may even be a home for them beneath an old mk1 BG.  Nice handbrake wheel moulding as well.  

[Simon60]

Great thanks 

No criticism for the siphon digression - it was me who asked the question and it has all been useful 

I now have a longer list of conversions to do which will be fun

[daltonparva]

There are 6 LMS ones on Ebay at the moment, from £15 - £25, this is the best one, 'cos it's mine!

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193306525837?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

 

 

[The Johnster]

Now just (as opposed to now in a minute; I'm Welsh, remember), I'm giving it a closer once over and have to say I'm very happy with it.  It am wot it am, of course, but Lima were pretty good at plastic mouldings, and this does not have the appallingly thick sides that prevented flush glazing on some of their stuff I had back in the day, mk1s and 117.  Glazing is not quite flush, but recessed by less than a mm, very creditable for a model of that period.  The underframe detail is very good, and I will not be improving it beyond perhaps putting a rod in between the handbrake wheels, a job so simple as to not be worth not doing, if that makes sense.

 

I ordered a bag of LMS coach buffers with this vehicle in mind from Comet, but the Lima ones are not bad at all, quite finely moulded and much better than the silly little mushrooms on mk1s and 117s.  They are of course cut across the top to support the end loading ramps when they are being used.  There's actually a lot less work in bringing this van up to scratch than I'd thought; the ventilators are not bad either, and beyond replacing moulded door handles and handrails, and perhaps painting the interior cream, the main job body-wise is new glazing with separate bars; I can't live with these prismatic things.  

 

Now, hie thee to the railway room, Johnster, forsooth, and start investigating those bogies...

[Metr0Land]

Here's one I did back in 2012.  As mentioned above the flush glazing was commendable for the era with one caveat.....  The drop panels in the doors should actually be inset more!  Fairly easily remedied.

 

 

[The Johnster]

That looks pretty good, Metro.  Have you replaced the glazing bars on yours?  Looks as if you get inside by pressing the glazing in, and that it is integral with the roof, which is painted clear plastic.  I’m nervous sbout this as this plastic is a bit brittle, and while breaking windows is not the end of the world if they are going to be replaced anyway, I am nervous about the roof.  I might have a go at droplights half or fully open; this looks very effective on a heavily weathered vehicle with dirty windows.  
 

The Dapol bogies allow the van to sit at the right height, but I may have to cut clearance slots in the floor to clear the flanges on my proposed Hornby wheels; I had to do this with the replacement bogie wheels for a Lima Siphon G as well. 

[Metr0Land]

Thanks. TBH I honestly can't remember about the glazing as it was 8 years ago!  I think I reused the original ones by cutting the glazing carefully and re-seating the droplights in the door but could be wrong.  The real ones were so dirty quite often that you couldn't see the bars.

 

Yes the glazing and roof are one piece.

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

That looks pretty good, Metro.  Have you replaced the glazing bars on yours?  Looks as if you get inside by pressing the glazing in, and that it is integral with the roof, which is painted clear plastic.  I’m nervous sbout this as this plastic is a bit brittle, and while breaking windows is not the end of the world if they are going to be replaced anyway, I am nervous about the roof.  I might have a go at droplights half or fully open; this looks very effective on a heavily weathered vehicle with dirty windows.  
 

The Dapol bogies allow the van to sit at the right height, but I may have to cut clearance slots in the floor to clear the flanges on my proposed Hornby wheels; I had to do this with the replacement bogie wheels for a Lima Siphon G as well. 

The safe way to separate the roof from the glazing is to hold a steel rule edge-on against the glazing and tight under the roof. Then run a "skrawker" type knife (e.g. Olfa cutter) along it to score the surface. Do many light passes until you are three quarters of the way through and it will be safe to snap it off.

 

The reason for using the rule rather than just running the knife along inside the angle is to leave a millimetre or so of the glazing behind to help align the roof accurately with the sides. I used Copydex to reattach it so it should come off if necessary, though it's been in place over 20 years with no need so far!

 

John

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

The safe way to separate the roof from the glazing is to hold a steel rule edge-on against the glazing and tight under the roof. Then run a "skrawker" type knife (e.g. Olfa cutter) along it to score the surface. Do many light passes until you are three quarters of the way through and it will be safe to snap it off.

 

The reason for using the rule rather than just running the knife along inside the angle is to leave a millimetre or so of the glazing behind to help align the roof accurately with the sides. I used Copydex to reattach it so it should come off if necessary, though it's been in place over 20 years with no need so far!

 

John

 

Razor saw for me, the Lima plastic is extremely brittle and can crack if subjected to a knife attack!

 

Mike.

[roythebus]

On 29/01/2020 at 17:23, Nimbus said:

I recall an article in RM in the 1960's, part of a series by the LMS Society, dealing with this vehicle. The accompanying drawing was comprehensively dimensioned and I was quite impressed that the underframe transverse trussing was detailed. ISTR this was drawn by Arthur Whitehead as most of the series were. When I bought my Lima one on release and saw the unusually detailed transverse trussing, I surmised they'd acquired a copy of the same drawing.

 

The NIm. 

I remember trying to scratch build one having seen that article. I think it was by Bob Essery. It was a long time ago.

[The Johnster]

I’m planning on attempting to release the roof/glazing assembly by pusing the windows in, accepting that I may break some, but if that feels as if it is straining the piece, I’l abandon the attempt and leave things as they are. 

[TheSignalEngineer]

24 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I’m planning on attempting to release the roof/glazing assembly by pusing the windows in, accepting that I may break some, but if that feels as if it is straining the piece, I’l abandon the attempt and leave things as they are. 

I pressed the windows in gently and used a fine flexible blade to release each one and gradually lift the roof and glazing out. 

 

20 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

..........to leave a millimetre or so of the glazing behind to help align the roof accurately with the sides. I used Copydex to reattach it so it should come off if necessary,............

I left the narrow strip along the top above my flush glazing then used a few dabs of UHU to refix the roof.

[The Johnster]

It can be done, then; thank you signal engineer for the reassurance!

[The Johnster]

Anybody know what colour the LMS painted the inside of it’s GUVs?

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I’m planning on attempting to release the roof/glazing assembly by pusing the windows in, accepting that I may break some, but if that feels as if it is straining the piece, I’l abandon the attempt and leave things as they are. 

That's the right way to do it. Slow and gentle, and there should be no disasters.

 

Start with one side and raise it just enough so the windows don't pop back into the holes, then do the same on the other side.

 

Once at that point just keep everything vertical and lift the roof a little at a time from the ends. The name of the game is to keep any tilting to a minimum in all directions.

 

John

[The Johnster]

Been checking photos on HMRS Paul’s sire prior to having a go at this van tomoz.  Paul’s site usually clears things up, but in this case raises questions.  Photos of bogie CCT and Parcels & Luggage (PLV) vans are shown, neither calling themselves GUVs and as far as I can make out identical, or at least the variations occur on both types and are not specific to one.  Why would a PLV need end doors?  
 

Main reason for checking was that Mr Dunsignalling mentioned roof vents and the photo of his excellent workup shows shell vents; Lima provide torpedoes.  Paul’s photos show both types with both, so unless a person of greater LMS erudition tells me otherwise, I’m going with the Lima torpedoes!

 

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

25 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Paul’s photos show both types with both, so unless a person of greater LMS erudition tells me otherwise, I’m going with the Lima torpedoes!

 

I've not noticed shell vents on Paul's site, AFAIK they were built with torpedo vents but there are two types of vent, one looks round and the other squashed.