Easton, Isle of Portland

[Mick Bonwick]

1 hour ago, Stubby47 said:

How does all this help with ballasting ?

 

It's a welcome distraction.

 

20 minutes ago, nickwood said:

The more weeds, the less you can see the ballast 

 

That's true. Hadn't thought of that. More weeds, more weeds!

 

 

[Mick Bonwick]

10 hours ago, MrWolf said:

For inaccessible areas, the plant could be temporarily planted into something else.

 

 

For plants destined for such places, taping them to a block of wood can help enormously. Using masking tape allows labelling to assist with subsequent identification for times when they disappear into a box for several years before being needed.

 

 

As long as the masking tape doesn't get wet.

[MrWolf]

That is giving me ideas which mean I will have to learn how to do the basic static grass ground cover fairly soon!

Most impressive, the devil is, as they say, in the details. You're certainly on top of that!

[Mick Bonwick]

Rob, do you yet have a static grass applicator? If so, which type? It can have a bearing on the method of application.

[sb67]

Nice "how to" with the weeds Mick. I might try and make a load of stinging nettles using that, mainly because I havent go any coloured flock or crayons to grate!

What have you used for the leaves? 

What static grass applicator do you use?

I have a cheap E Bay tea strainer which is ok but I wonder how much better results I would get with a better applicator? 

Edited March 30, 2021 by sb67

[Mick Bonwick]

5 minutes ago, sb67 said:

What have you used for the leaves? 

 

Steve, I use a product that came from John Lloyd at Green Scene, but it's not in his range any more. There is a similar product (I think) available from Gaugemaster:

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/model-railways/gaugemaster-scenics-brand5/gaugemaster-gm156.html

 

I haven't seen or tried this, but it looks very similar.

 

It can be sieved to separate out the smaller pieces, but that takes some time to do because the pieces don't readily fall through your sieve's holes. I can attest to that.

[Stubby47]

48 minutes ago, Mick Bonwick said:

Rob, do you yet have a static grass applicator? If so, which type? It can have a bearing on the method of application.

 

I use this one:

https://www.wwscenics.com/product/pro-grass-micro-applicator-wws/

[Mick Bonwick]

57 minutes ago, sb67 said:

What static grass applicator do you use?

I have a cheap E Bay tea strainer which is ok but I wonder how much better results I would get with a better applicator? 

 

That's sneaky. Asking another question after I've answered the first one.

 

I'd say that the tea-strainer type are good for small areas, say 9" x 9", and grass lengths of up to 4mm. Larger areas or longer fibres may well work, but I'd recommend a beefier machine. Like so many things, you need to think about the use of the tool before making informed decisions about the type to use. There are now many on the market, making choice more difficult.

 

Probably the most important requirement is to be sure that your grass fibres will stand to attention. This aspect is dealt with by the voltage produced by the machine. The higher the voltage, the better the fibres will react. Longer fibres (over 6mm) will require quite a hefty voltage to reliably stand up. If you're modelling in 4mm scale I doubt if you'd need to employ fibres much longer than that unless you're creating an area of very long Summer grasses.

 

The secret, if that's the word to use, is to keep the end where the fibres come out as close to the treated surface as possible without touching it. Don't agitate the machine too much, just enough for the fibres to drop. If you find there are long chains of fibres sticking to each other, that's a sign of excessive agitation and will leave a great deal of excess to be vacuumed up afterwards.

 

To give you an idea of what to expect from the types mentioned, Nick Wood's OO Gauge Much Murkle employed a tea-strainer type:

 

 

The Leamington & Warwick Model Railway Society's  O Gauge Kimble employed a Noch Grasmaster type:

 

 

A few manufacturers have introduced smaller machines in the last couple of years, presumably to enable greater accuracy when working on small or restricted areas, but I have found the use of a paper or card mask to be a much cheaper way of doing that.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mick Bonwick]

I just had to get the applicator out and do a bit of agitating. Once you get the urge you can't get away from it.

 

Since I have a plank to play with, I'm going to have a play. Starting point is an already surfaced area.

 

 

Neat PVA applied ready to be spread.

 

PVA spread into an even but thin layer.

 

A mixture of 2mm fibres is prepared. In this case it is simply the residue from previous playings around all mixed into 1 pot.

 

 

Applicator placed about 5cm abbove the prepared area. Even before agitation begins there is a layer of fibres on the glue. Note that the wander lead from the applicator is attached to the workpiece, bottom left.

 

Gentle agitation over the target area, with a small are masked off to save having to remove fibres from a ballasted area. See? Grass application does have something to do with ballasting.

 

 

While the glue is still wet, some 'earth' powder is scattered over the top. In this case it consists of wood ash and pigment mixed together, just because they were handy.

 

The loose material was shaken off to be re-used at another time. If I was doing this on the layout I would wait until everything was dry before using a vacuum cleaner to remove the loose stuff.

 

 

You ought to be able to see how the fibres have behaved from this low angle shot.

 

 

Any questions?

 

 

 

[KNP]

14 minutes ago, Mick Bonwick said:

I just had to get the applicator out and do a bit of agitating. Once you get the urge you can't get away from it.

 

Since I have a plank to play with, I'm going to have a play. Starting point is an already surfaced area.

 

 

Neat PVA applied ready to be spread.

 

PVA spread into an even but thin layer.

 

A mixture of 2mm fibres is prepared. In this case it is simply the residue from previous playings around all mixed into 1 pot.

 

 

Applicator placed about 5cm abbove the prepared area. Even before agitation begins there is a layer of fibres on the glue. Note that the wander lead from the applicator is attached to the workpiece, bottom left.

 

Gentle agitation over the target area, with a small are masked off to save having to remove fibres from a ballasted area. See? Grass application does have something to do with ballasting.

 

 

While the glue is still wet, some 'earth' powder is scattered over the top. In this case it consists of wood ash and pigment mixed together, just because they were handy.

 

The loose material was shaken off to be re-used at another time. If I was doing this on the layout I would wait until everything was dry before using a vacuum cleaner to remove the loose stuff.

 

 

You ought to be able to see how the fibres have behaved from this low angle shot.

 

 

Any questions?

 

 

 

Nope...

 

Looks very good though.

[Stubby47]

Do you not have to clip the connector into the glued area to make the circuit ?

 

I use a dress maker's pin in the croc-clip and pushed into the glue.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Stubby47

[Mick Bonwick]

28 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

Do you not have to clip the connector into the glued area to make the circuit ?

 

I use a dress maker's pin in the croc-clip and pushed into the glue.

 

No.

 

As you can see (and it was done deliberately) it hasn't been done in my demonstration. I'm not sure where this idea came from but you can see yourself that it is not necessary.

 

There may well  be many readers who maintain that it MUST be done that way, but the proof is here for all to see. By all means do it if you want to, but it's not necessary.

[NHY 581]

Top stuff Mick. 

 

Your methods pretty much mirror mine, apart from the application of the soil, ash stuff. I will however give this a try. 

 

Each layout has seen me learning more as I go along and there are a few things to try on the next. 

 

I use the below applicator which copes with 2,4 and 6mm fibres. 

 

Rob. 

[sb67]

Cheers Mick. The tea strainer only has 2AA bateries so I did wonded about the oomph! I have only tried nothing longer than 4mm fibres. I find that if I hoover up loose fibres after laid them it helps them to stand up then I'll sieve ash or soil then hoover again. 

One tip I got from somewhere was to "plant" a small bunch of fibres by hand by rolling them into a cigar shape then tease them out once dry, good for rough patches of grass. 

It can be very addictive messing round with static grass! 

[NHY 581]

1 hour ago, sb67 said:

 

It can be very addictive messing round with static grass! 

 

 

Deffo. 

[MrWolf]

10 hours ago, Mick Bonwick said:

Rob, do you yet have a static grass applicator? If so, which type? It can have a bearing on the method of application.

 

I too have a WWS pro grass micro applicator, which a number of you seem to have. I bought it secondhand but unused off eBay at the start of lockdown. I was lucky to get it cheap as new ones were hard to find or becoming daft money. I suspect that things are going back to normal. I will have to study the how to's!

 

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by MrWolf
Picture no attach!

[Mick Bonwick]

The WWS applicator seems to have become more popular recently, along with the same item badged by Peco. Probably because it works out cheaper than the Noch Grasmaster and also because the Green Scene one isn't advertised anywhere other than their website. All three of these are much of a muchness in terms of performance, although multiple sized screens, as supplied with the Noch, are good for using with different fibre lengths. The smaller the mesh aperture, the shorter the length of fibre to be used.

 

As previously mentioned there are some smaller, 'more accurate' models appearing,  intended for use in restricted areas, but I have found paper or card masks and funnel shaped meshes to be more useful.

 

You could go on a Pendon Workshop and try them all out, if you wanted to.

 

https://pendonmuseum.com/events/detailing-the-scene

[nickwood]

A very enjoyable day, so I’m told. 

[Tony Teague]

On 31/03/2021 at 15:35, nickwood said:

A very enjoyable day, so I’m told. 

 

(by Mick.....)

[wamwig]

On 31/03/2021 at 09:58, Mick Bonwick said:

The WWS applicator seems to have become more popular recently, along with the same item badged by Peco. Probably because it works out cheaper than the Noch Grasmaster and also because the Green Scene one isn't advertised anywhere other than their website. All three of these are much of a muchness in terms of performance, although multiple sized screens, as supplied with the Noch, are good for using with different fibre lengths. The smaller the mesh aperture, the shorter the length of fibre to be used.

 

As previously mentioned there are some smaller, 'more accurate' models appearing,  intended for use in restricted areas, but I have found paper or card masks and funnel shaped meshes to be more useful.

 

You could go on a Pendon Workshop and try them all out, if you wanted to.

 

https://pendonmuseum.com/events/detailing-the-scene

 

Nice plug Mick, thoroughly enjoyed my attendance at one and now I'm putting into practice what was learned on it, practice certainly makes perfect (or close to anyway) and of course on the course you get the opportunity to marvel at The Vale Scene!

 

Anthony

[Mick Bonwick]

I've been working on a row of terraced houses from the Scalescenes range, using laser cut card components from ChrisInDen. Much time was saved by using precut 2mm and 1mm card pieces, but the assembly still takes ages.

 

I have been using small clamps from Rolson to hold things together while the glue (PVA) grabs, but it occurred to me today that there may be a better way of doing it. I have had a couple of annoying incidents where a clamp decides to ping off and subsequently moves the clamped parts and PVA ends up where it shouldn't be, necessitating a reprint of the paper overlay and a re-gluing of the components.

 

What do other modellers use for clamping while glue grabs?

 

 

 

[Stubby47]

I use Anita's Tacky Glue, which works in just a few minutes.

 

Available from The Range.

[sb67]

I've used the same clamps as yourself and depending on what I'm joining clothes pegs or the fold back paper clips. 

The tacky glue is good as well, I've got some from Hobbycraft.

[JustinDean]

This stuff works really well - 5 minute PVA available on eBay -

 

[Mick Bonwick]

7 minutes ago, JustinDean said:

This stuff works really well - 5 minute PVA available on eBay -

 

 

 

Thanks, Justin. The rear of the bottle in the photograph looks the same as yours on the other side.

 

 

When I'm dealing with multiple surface joins at a time, I don't trust my ability to keep still long enough for even this glue to grab without component movement. It would probably be good enough for most other people, though.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Mick Bonwick
Photograph added.