Corona-virus - Impact of the Health Situation worldwide

[LBRJ]

There does seem to be a strong urge for quite a lot of people (not specifically on here) to go to the David Icke end of the spectrum and post literally any old **** about this matter; and to be honest such lunacy needs stamping out wherever it pops up.

This is a serious matter, not one where every Joker should have his say.

[Gwiwer]

Oh dear.  Whilst I have not always agreed with Andy Y, nor others, and have not always been the most restrained in offering my point of view I do ultimately accept that in Andy's house we play by his rules.  

 

Perhaps self-isolation from RMweb, or parts of it, might be required for a while with reference to numerous recent posts.  

[JSpencer]

28 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

I'm not sure, are you on the right or the left of Bojo in the press conferences? I ask as your knowledge seems far greater than those in COBRA meetings.

 

Masks don't work as you think. I wear them for work and when you take them off the whole of the front of your face is covered with moisture from your breath, if you cough you can see the spray exit to the side.

 

 

Ok I am suggesting people wear them 24 or even 8 hours a day. We all take public transport in cities and other towns. A train typically takes 500 people. 953 cases in london which twice that of China before they went into lock down. That lock down showed a further 70k infections which had happened before the lock down occured. There has been some downwards presure etc but there could be 50 to 100K of people in London with this as we speak now. 9 million + people in London, taking the lower figure of 50k = 1 person in every 180. Or approx 2 people on a busy commuter train in rush hour. The virus sits in the air for 15 to 45 minutes (depending on which scientific source you read) from people talking, coughing, sneezing.

My suggestion is you wear something that will "effectively" (mask ideally) cover your face during the short periods when you have to be in groups of people you don't know (public transport not everyone can work from home, shopping etc). Short periods.

 

My point is, what happens when we come out of the distancing/isolation period? What measures must we take on top? We cannot remain in shut down for a year or more. If we come out with nothing extra in terms of measures it will just flare up again.

I have 500 airline companies customers all about to go bankrupt. They will mostly support a predicted 6-12 week shut down (IF it remains at 6-12 weeks which many doubt), but they will go under if we repeat this 2 or 3 times (which may not be enough). They are not alone. Once the COVID-19 are figures down, we need to keep it low but equally make sure the measures allow life to continue. Masks might be a cheap effective way of doing that but equally the may not, washing hands and social distancing and testing alone have so far failed to stop numbers going up. 

 

This analyst on BBC here is asking the same question:

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-51955509?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5e73b771e1961406761d9731%26Analysis%3A It could take a long time for the tide to turn%262020-03-19T19%3A42%3A25.246Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:0bdf4cf1-4454-400e-8c79-ac5f3d8d6287&pinned_post_asset_id=5e73b771e1961406761d9731&pinned_post_type=share

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by JSpencer

[robmcg]

15 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Or just maybe you have. Andy Y edited out a load of rabid nonsense - that definition being the view of the chap who had posted it, tongue in cheek. In a less-serious context than Covid-19, it might indeed have been funny, but with so much misinoformation rife everywhere, RMweb's good name was better protected by expunging it. 

 

I agree, it was foolhardy of me to put it here in jest, trying to make it abundantly clear that it was rubbish hence my reference to my conviction that the earth is flat...

 

I failed to appreciate that those stupid conspiracy theories could be quoted out of context and attributed to RMweb. I didn't think of the possible damage to Andy Y and RMweb who I think are great.  Apologies again. 

 

Quoting things out of context also appears in normal everyday media, much to the disgust of a good friend old school journalist.  Copy, paste, publish....

 

Social distancing, flatten the curve, targeted economic assistance, that'll do for me.

[Crisis Rail]

27 minutes ago, Reorte said:

 

Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom to have a soapbox. If it's someone else's soapbox they're entirely entitled to have it back if they don't like how it's being used.

 

Conform or be cast out?

[Reorte]

3 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

 

Conform or be cast out?

 

Since it's a privately owned forum, yes. No different from being with any other group of people.

 

I generally don't like "if you don't like it then leave" being thrown around - it can be too easily used to ignore opinions you don't like, but there's a limit and RMWeb is generally quite relaxed with that limit.

[Crisis Rail]

Well maybe the Forum should concentrate more on the “RM” bit of it instead of offering topics that have the potential to dish out buns for a bunfight. 

 

Just a thought. 

Edited March 19, 2020 by Crisis Rail

[jcredfer]

12 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

 

Conform or be cast out?

 

Opinions are well allowed here, but - misleading, conspiratorial, irrelevant, unsubstantiated, rubbish doesn't equate with a range of reasonable opinions.  Freedom of opinion is subject to the checks of reality, rubbish doesn't qualify for acceptance...  anywhere.

 

Julian

[chris p bacon]

45 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

washing hands and social distancing and testing alone have so far failed to stop numbers going up.

 

They were never intended to stop them going up, just to slow the rise until the NHS has some ability to cope.

 

 

[chris p bacon]

3 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

Just a thought

 

Which are sometimes best kept to yourself.

[Crisis Rail]

 

12 minutes ago, jcredfer said:

 

Opinions are well allowed here, but - misleading, conspiratorial, irrelevant, unsubstantiated, rubbish doesn't equate with a range of reasonable opinions.  Freedom of opinion is subject to the checks of reality, rubbish doesn't qualify for acceptance...  anywhere.

 

Julian

 

How do you know it’s “rubbish”   It’s only your opinion. 

Edited March 19, 2020 by Crisis Rail

[LBRJ]

9 hours ago, spikey said:

Wonderful quote here from French Interior Minister Christophe Castaner talking about the 4,095 fines that have been handed out to folks ignoring the French lockdown ...

 

"Some people think they're some kind of modern-day hero when they break the rules - but they're imbeciles, and a danger to themselves."

 

Oh if only there was a way of getting that message through to the morons in this country who are still talking about nothing stopping them going out, lock-ins in the pubs and so on ...

I really am not sure that that is true.

Liberty does matter particularly in the long term - You would think a French politico of all people, would know that better than us over here really  

 

We allow ourselves to be governed by consent, and the moment we forget that we will be in far greater trouble than even if the Black Death made a dramatic full-force comeback.

For a Government Minister to call the very people who allow him to hold his position "imbeciles" really should worry anyone with a sense of self.

 

Saying all that though, it is sensible to listen to advice from HMG - as long as that is all it is....advice.

 

[jcredfer]

2 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

 

 

How do you know it’s “rubbish”   It’s only your opinion. 

 

It is not "only my opinion" however and discredited with credible facts, by many, which you then justified as "just a thought".  You might, eventually get the relevance of crisp e bacon's comment...  

 

J

 

[Phil Bullock]

9 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

Well maybe the Forum should concentrate more on the “RM” bit of it instead of offering topics that have the potential to dish out buns for a bunfight. 

 

Just a thought. 

 

RM related topics not triggering bun fights? Thats a novel concept! Just try mentioning frog juicers and see what happens....

 

You are right, this is primarily an RM forum. We are all guilty of deviating from this to varying degrees, either as thread drift or as non RM topics which impinge on our RM activities. The mods tolerate this but as representatives of the forum owners they are entitled to protect the reputation of this resource and act accordingly. We all have the option to either align our behaviour or walk....

 

It is now that as a community - and I mean that in its widest sense - we need to pull together. We may not neccessarily agree with the detail of everything that happens but unless we find a way to sign up and go along with what is determined as appropriate behaviour, in both the wider world and this forum, then the systems put in place to protect us all will fail.

 

Freedom of speech is a luxury that is hard won and easily lost. It is incumbent on all to bear this in mind when speaking publicly - including on this forum.

 

 

 

 

[Andy Hayter]

LBRJ

Well I clearly have no sense of self.

If 10% population* completely ignore the instructions and advice to prevent the uncontrolled spread of a disease and are thus able to thwart the objectives of that advice, is it really wrong to point out just how stupid that is?  It is not as if the advice was in any way new.  It has been repeated over the last 4 weeks - over and over and over again.  And still thousands choose to ignore it.  They are it seems better than the virus, better than the advice and rules do not need to apply to them.

 

Personally I prefer a politician that says I just like it is rather than hide the criticism behind "surely it would be better if..." or "we are all in this together".    If they act like morons tell them!

 

* From what I have personally seen that would be the most conservative of estimates.

[Ravenser]

2 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

I'm not worried bout Holidays this year.  We had a lad trip to  the Hamburg Port Anniversary but that gone tits up. Work now say we have to take 2 weeks Holidays before June. Thats 2 weeks left to take for the rest of the year but being in Air Cargo business I dont think the job will even be there to take Holidays from.

 

We will just have to see,

 

 

I've said a couple of times round the office that "Seafreight - the new airfreight" should be our slogan... The airfreight situation looks so dire that I'm starting to wonder if this is what September 1939 felt like. I saw someone claim that 70% of air cargo was bellyhold - all I can say is , I don't know where all these freighters are that provide 30% of the capacity , cos they certainly aren't anywhere near the UK

 

Once the process of repatriation is complete, it's difficult to see any passenger aviation left  operating in Europe, and the way the world is going there may not be much air passenger services left in North America in 10 days time either.

 

PS I'm doubtful Eurostar will still be running in a fortnight's time, and long distance rail services to London may well be very limited "for the duration" as well. With borders closed, international rail services in Europe must have largely ceased too

Edited March 19, 2020 by Ravenser
Rail services affected

[LBRJ]

2 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

LBRJ

Well I clearly have no sense of self.

If 10% population* completely ignore the instructions and advice to prevent the uncontrolled spread of a disease and are thus able to thwart the objectives of that advice, is it really wrong to point out just how stupid that is?  It is not as if the advice was in any way new.  It has been repeated over the last 4 weeks - over and over and over again.  And still thousands choose to ignore it.  They are it seems better than the virus, better than the advice and rules do not need to apply to them.

 

Personally I prefer a politician that says I just like it is rather than hide the criticism behind "surely it would be better if..." or "we are all in this together".    If they act like morons tell them!

 

* From what I have personally seen that would be the most conservative of estimates.

 

Did you read what I actually wrote?

Politicians should tread carefully when they are telling us what to do

not that they should not give us strong advice when it is needed.

 

We seem to have a recent GE where those who thought they could tell us what to do found out that its "we" who give them thier jobs.

 

This is in danger of been so far OT ill hush now, as should you.

[Andy Hayter]

Yes I did read what you wrote and due to the imbeciles my liberty is severely restricted - for the common good.

 

I fear and see the same heading for the UK.

[wombatofludham]

On a different tack, have those of you recently retired from the real railway been approached with a view to returning to keep the railway going if Network Rail staff get hit by this virus?  I know a lot of you have wasps up your knickers about Faceache but I've seen two postings on the site asking for ex-staff to come forward.  I've checked with a MOM with Network Rail and they are genuine, mainly looking for signal staff at present but according to my contact, any practical ex-operations staff may be needed.

Just put this out here as I know there are a number of ex-railwaymen on here who might not have seen this.

Right, those of you who want to don your tinfoil millinery and resume the arguments can, I'm off to do some more 3d printing.

[LBRJ]

I better dust down my whistle, T key and all the other gubbins ready for a Return to Duty then

 

But it is a good idea if the Railway starts to run short of people to make it work...Im sure I still remember most of the Rule Book

[wombatofludham]

36 minutes ago, LBRJ said:

I better dust down my whistle, T key and all the other gubbins ready for a Return to Duty then

 

But it is a good idea if the Railway starts to run short of people to make it work...Im sure I still remember most of the Rule Book

The posts I've seen say anyone who has been a signaller within the past 15 years would be welcome to contact NR, I suppose someone who has had experience of the railway culture and rules will be seen as being easier to bring up to speed with developments than a complete newbie.

I don't think my experience of being in a PTE counts, sadly, I suspect I'd be more hindrance than help!

[raymw]

Here's a bike ride through New York. About as much traffic as through Chernobyl (but more lights)

 

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

Not intended as doom mongering or in any way being negative, just a couple of snippets of (sad) information that may have slipped past a few of us on here....

 

 

Yesterday, Italy lost its 13th doctor to die from COVID-19.

Almost 2,700 medical staff have been infected, amounting to approx. 8.3% of the medical staff.

 

In the Bergamo area of Lombardy, 118 out of some 600 local GP's have been infected and are isolation, some hospitalised and a few have died in the last week.

 

As mentioned earlier on here, BoJo has said that IF everybody cooperates and follows the advice AND if the medical and scientific plans work as they hope; then we may be getting over the worst of it in around some 12 weeks time  (3 months from now), which suggests late June.

Wouldn't that suggest that the tail off would take a couple of months though, taking us into August?

 

This seems heavily weighted towards wishful thinking to me, unless the behaviour and attitude of significant proportions of the general public changes pretty rapidly. Either that or draconian measures being implemented, pretty damn quick.

 

Meanwhile, temporary morgue facilities are now being set up or constructed across the UK.

Note also, it's been said that the imminent Army mobilisation may be necessary for at least 6 months.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/19/temporary-morgues-being-set-up-across-uk-amid-rising-covid-19-deaths

 

 

.

 

 

[maico]

If you want to avoid crowds at the supermarket go later. My local Tesco is open till 10pm. I went at 8pm and there were only 4 other customers there. No fresh meat at all but most other things in stock including shelves groaning under the weight of kitchen and bog roll. The night shift were refilling stuff.

 

I wore a mask, just a normal FFP1 grade you use for DIY with basic filtration valve. Health professionals use FP3 or breathing gear, even so, a basic mask is very good at stopping atomization of your coughs and sneezes. That's why people in Asia wear them when you have a cold.

 

This guy in the same store took a belt and braces end of the World approach

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/hazmat-suit-coronavirus-buying-tesco-3964751

[AY Mod]

9 hours ago, Crisis Rail said:

free speech and uncensored unbiased opinions?

 

I've just checked and I can't find any record of me having given you privileges above others in this regard. 

 

Any further silly jibes will mean the following will take place in this order -

 

1) Removal of access to this topic.

2) Removal of access to the site for a period of time.

3) Removal of access to the site on a permanent basis.

 

So, just wind it in please.