Corona-virus - Impact of the Health Situation worldwide

[jcredfer]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

Something to keep in mind about the USA is it is a federal country and states have a lot of autonomy. Many of the things we'd look to Westminster to lead on are state issues and most American's I know want to keep things that way. For example, America is regularly named and shamed on GHG issues yet California is way ahead of almost anywhere else and many states are actively promoting renewable energy so the actual situation can be very different to what we might think is only watching the federal government.

 

Indeed, there are States which wish to develop in as civilised and responsible way as possible, but as you say, that doesn't mean the rest of the country will follow.  Elsewhere, the Coal, gas, steel and Oil industry are simply not.  The overall figures are appalling, despite the efforts of those more responsible people, who get pressed to one side, by the shouting of those who are making money from CO2 emissions.  Comparisons along with China , India, Mexico and a good few others, don't hold the US in a good light.

 

The same is happening over the Covid-19 where health issues and their health services / insurance are being belittled by those who are prepared to waste lives, in order to keep [their] money flowing in.  The dilemma is causing Trump a big problem and the outcome of the decisions he makes will affect millions of citizens [and votes, too].   For a POTUS business money making vs the quality of life for the population, is quite a dilemma.  Either way, it will provide interesting, although not very pleasant, reading.  My thoughts and sympathy rest with the US population.

 

Julian

[Allegheny1600]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

Something to keep in mind about the USA is it is a federal feral country 

Just fixed that for you!!!

[Nearholmer]

The US also has a ‘coastal vs inland’ political and sociological-cultural division (clearly more complex than that, but nevertheless true), and because the virus has attacked the more outward-reaching coastal areas first, that seems to be translating into a ‘this is a big thing’ vs ‘this is a storm in a tea cup’ or God’s judgement’ division of attitude.

 

One thing that, like age divisions, might creep into the discussion in the UK later is class division, in that the virus snuck in with a ‘more prosperous’ demographic, world travellers and ‘skiing at half term’ people, yet will doubtless clobber the least prosperous most heavily, because of tighter crowding of homes, and poorer background health.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Ian Hargrave]

Every crisis defines its heros whose stature stands clear of national boundaries in terms of personal example and qualities of clear and honest leadership . Mario Cuomo is a man to watch.  NYC in so very many ways is the cradle of civilised humanity together with its adjacent states.Cometh the hour,cometh the man.You have to believe.Yes,I love NY.

[Ian Abel]

2 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Every crisis defines its heros whose stature stands clear of national boundaries in terms of personal example and qualities of clear and honest leadership . Mario Cuomo is a man to watch.  NYC in so very many ways is the cradle of civilised humanity together with its adjacent states.Cometh the hour,cometh the man.You have to believe.Yes,I love NY.

Indeed, there are several other states with "sensible" governors that are paving the way and being proactive rather than reactive. Fortunately, I'm in one of those, Minnesota. I fear for some of the other states if they're following the Fed/party line as this needs to be addressed with all speed and a good plan.

[Ian Hargrave]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I genuinely feel very sorry for people in the USA.

There will doubtless be questions about capability and responsiveness later, but at least the NHS is unarguably universal, and sufficiently centralised to be coordinated, and the government seems full galvanised, all of which are comforting in tough times.

 

What we can see of the US looks scarily dysfunctional

 

Maybe we’re getting biased reporting (somehow, I don’t think so), and maybe the US will do that ‘sudden awakening’ thing that it is capable of, throwing all of its huge resources at the problem and cracking it, but it surely doesn’t look comforting at the moment.

 

 

Do not underestimate what...For all its shortcomings...the USA is capable of,including regeneration aka FDR.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

7 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

...My MiL had two or three weeks of some lurgy that caused, among other things, a persistent cough and mild pneumonia, in late Jan/early Feb. She’s a very active person in her sixties, and shook it off after about 2-3 weeks, but I have wondered more recently ........ thinking back, the symptoms were awfully like what is being described now...

Sounds familiar, I had what I described as 'the cold that keeps on giving' over six weeks spread over January and February. No pneumonia, but bouts of no energy, breathlessness when walking, a dry throat with a persistent cough. Usual social round at Christmas with people back in the UK for the holiday, and I definitely kissed all the women present, shook hands with all the men, while eating the various party food with not a care in the world. Don't know what that was, and if I had something I went about sharing it freely.

[Ozexpatriate]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

What we can see of the US looks scarily dysfunctional

I can't comment on that without being political.

 

The source of the dysfunction is truly political, not structural.

 

True leadership can resolve it.

[Sasquatch]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I genuinely feel very sorry for people in the USA.

There will doubtless be questions about capability and responsiveness later, but at least the NHS is unarguably universal, and sufficiently centralised to be coordinated, and the government seems full galvanised, all of which are comforting in tough times.

 

What we can see of the US looks scarily dysfunctional

 

Maybe we’re getting biased reporting (somehow, I don’t think so), and maybe the US will do that ‘sudden awakening’ thing that it is capable of, throwing all of its huge resources at the problem and cracking it, but it surely doesn’t look comforting at the moment.

 

 

 

 

Please feel sorry for the people who didn't vote for the idiot in charge, and for those who still believe he's worth listening to I guess. Actually almost every body I know has taken it upon themselves to take matters into their own hands by stocking up on a reasonable amount of  food and are staying at home.  We didn't wait for a Federal decision and we probably wont return to normal when the federal government say it is OK to do so!

As I said in an earlier post Bravo for Oregon's state governor Kate Brown. (A Democrat)

 

 

The speed at which Covid-19 has spread in the States is on a par with poor Italy and the health care system here is not ready to cope.  The mask shortage seems to be the biggest problem. here

On a positive note we do have very good hospitals. Health care accounts for 15% of Oregon's overall economy.   

 

 

One thing I've been doing is the math. Stop reading what the news is telling you , for instance.

Firstly Luxembourg is the worst hit country. The most cases per head of population!

Secondly, when you compare the total deaths against those recovered the mortality rate is approx 1in 6. (That's why everybody needs to stay isolated because if this virus infected everybody on the planet it has the potential to kill over 1.2 billion people. I would also go so far as to say a lot more because the world's health care systems will collapse under such a strain).

 

China seems to have things under control but she did take it seriously and took drastic measures. The US has not. Trump is still calling it "The Chinese Virus" which I think just goes to show his understanding in full. It is also a big mistake because the Chinese won't take very kindly to it and we (The US) as a nation can kiss goodbye to any help that might be forthcoming.

 

On a more worrying note gun sales are up with some stores already selling out of ammo. Don't even try to understand that one.

Unless anybody has actually lived in the United States I wouldn't expect anyone to fully understand how the place functions. There is an enormous sense of community among it's inhabitants something which has taken me nearly 13 years to assimilate with.

 

Please don't take any of this personally or quote me. I thought it might be worth posting as someone who lives here.

 

Regards Shaun

[Ozexpatriate]

3 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

In Australia you have to go through the separate alcohol register - usually set up as a shop within a shop.

Rick, the bottle-o's in my old stomping grounds are still separate from the grocery supermarket, (the shop within a shop being illegal in Queensland) though the Woolies/Coles owned bottle shops (BWS/Liquorland) are usually quite close by the supermarkets. The other Aussie bottle-o player is the large "Liquor Barn" (like Dan Murphy's, which along with BWS is owned by Woolworths).

 

My mum likes to joke that Dan Murphy is my dad's best friend, based on the number of emails "he" sends my dad.

 

The shop within a shop can be found in some places in the US. In the Chicago suburbs the Jewel grocery chain was paired with Osco/Sav-On Drugs, which along with being a pharmacy, sold alcohol. In the suburb where I lived, 'blue laws' were in place and the alcohol section of the Osco would be roped off at night and on Sunday mornings.

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Ozexpatriate

[Nearholmer]

Sweden amazed me: there you have to (had to?) buy alcohol at strange shops that are (we’re?) a bit like old-fashioned railway booking-offices crossed with pharmacies, nothing on display, and bottles issued through a ‘ticket office window’. They have curious dancehalls there too, where people of all ages go to a sort of tea-dance, with at-table restaurant service to booths all the way round the dance floor; very popular because, as restaurants, they are licensed to sell drink for consumption on the premises. Some of the strictest drink laws anywhere, to combat the tendency to drink away the long winter blues.

 

Now, returning to topic ......

[Jonboy]

4 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

GTECH's efforts to invent a new, very simple ventilator, was featured on our TV Regional News a couple of days ago. Great work, not just now but for the future of medicine in less developed countries.

The CEO had his sleeves rolled up and was clearly enjoying a spell back in the workshop. Definite candidate for the next awards in my view.

My wife works for a company that make certain models that are popular for that specific reason. They are still servicing devices in Africa made 30+ years ago....I doubt the Gtech ones will get anything like the required testing to ensure it can stand up to that environment.

 

These simple ones may be right for this situation because they will be transported on first world infrastructure, and then they will be used on patients with similar conditions and not alongside anaesthetics that need varying supplies for every patient and procedure.

 

wifey has spent the day showing the assembly to a number of hi-tech companies that are gearing up now to produce from this week.

 

[Sasquatch]

When I lived in Belgium I found their drinking laws were virtually nonexistent,

 

Shortly after renting our first house the Komisaris payed a visit to check our ID papers. I invited him in and offered him a drink. 

"Pinture" (Bier) 

 

Police sergeant drinking whilst on duty at ten in the morning. Living there was going to be a challenge!

 

[Mike Storey]

4 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

Something to keep in mind about the USA is it is a federal country and states have a lot of autonomy. Many of the things we'd look to Westminster to lead on are state issues and most American's I know want to keep things that way. For example, America is regularly named and shamed on GHG issues yet California is way ahead of almost anywhere else and many states are actively promoting renewable energy so the actual situation can be very different to what we might think is only watching the federal government.

 

All true, and all so stupid.

 

Only a national response and associative actions will defeat this virus. States cannot compete with states for vital equipment and supplies.

 

Viruses do not recognise State Lines.

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Jonboy said:

My wife works for a company that make certain models that are popular for that specific reason. They are still servicing devices in Africa made 30+ years ago....I doubt the Gtech ones will get anything like the required testing to ensure it can stand up to that environment.

 

These simple ones may be right for this situation because they will be transported on first world infrastructure, and then they will be used on patients with similar conditions and not alongside anaesthetics that need varying supplies for every patient and procedure.

 

wifey has spent the day showing the assembly to a number of hi-tech companies that are gearing up now to produce from this week.

 

These are intended for a specific kind of patient, primarily in the UK, rather than being adaptable to treating a wide variety of conditions throughout the world. The level of testing required for units designed to do that and last for decades would ensure that too few could be produced in time to be useful.

 

The immediate requirement for the NHS is a unit that works and can quickly be produced in quantity by factories where medical equipment is not the usual output. If they only last  a year, they will save many lives and buy the time needed to get better/more robust versions made in sufficiently large numbers.

 

I heard in a radio news report that GTech is already working on a Mk2 device, so presumably that's how they are thinking.

 

John

Edited March 25, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[maico]

Here's the latest deaths per 1 million people in Europe, 10 highest  (Source Worldometers)

 

Italy 124
Spain 74
Netherlands 21
France 20
Switzerland 18
Belgium 15
Luxembourg 13

UK 7

Denmark 6
Sweden 6

 

(USA 3, China 2)

 

(San Marino, the tax haven for Italy, that is not in the EU, has a population of 33,000 and 21 deaths = 619)

Edited March 25, 2020 by maico

[LBRJ]

I love how "no politics" is allowed but there is post after post dissing the President of the United States - is that not politics?

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, Sasquatch said:

Secondly, when you compare the total deaths against those recovered the mortality rate is approx 1in 6.

 

We discussed the time lag between deaths and recoveries earlier in the thread, and IIRC Robert (ex-GP?) pointed out that it makes projecting eventual fatality rates from figures early in an outbreak very tricky, and simply looking at 'now' figures for deaths and recoveries gives a misleading impression.

 

That having been said, I'm watching the figures for Italy, and my gut feel is still that the fatality rate for 'confirmed cases' is going to be high, and that even assuming 'confirmed cases' to be a synonym for 'hospital admissions only', with a high percentage of cases not resulting in hospitalisation, the overall fatality rate will be much greater than the 3.4% cited as average by WHO.

 

 

[AY Mod]

23 minutes ago, LBRJ said:

I love how "no politics" is allowed but there is post after post dissing the President of the United States - is that not politics?

 

You are not attempting the impossible are you?

[Nearholmer]

26 minutes ago, LBRJ said:

post after post dissing the President of the United States - is that not politics?

 

More shaking the head sadly in shocked disbelief, I think.

 

When the leader of the most powerful (ly armed) nation on earth comes out with the sort of strange, whimsical, ill-thought-through, musings that he regularly does, it makes everyone very nervous.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Nearholmer

[LBRJ]

5 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

You are not attempting the impossible are you?

 

No of course not......But whats sauce for the almighty orange one is, or should be, sauce for others we dont like much....

remember he only got in cos the opposition thought it was their girls turn ....

[jjb1970]

45 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

These are intended for a specific kind of patient, primarily in the UK, rather than being adaptable to treating a wide variety of conditions throughout the world. The level of testing required for units designed to do that and last for decades would ensure that too few could be produced in time to be useful.

 

The immediate requirement for the NHS is a unit that works and can quickly be produced in quantity by factories where medical equipment is not the usual output. If they only last  a year, they will save many lives and buy the time needed to get better/more robust versions made in sufficiently large numbers.

 

I heard in a radio news report that GTech is already working on a Mk2 device, so presumably that's how they are thinking.

 

John

 

I think the idea is build what almost amounts to a disposable ventilator. A design that will serve in a crisis and expand the number of machines available quickly, if they're a bit rubbish and only last a short time it doesn't matter as long as they work. Given the sort of money the government is throwing around just now the costs of paying to buy a few thousand cheap throwaway ventilators won't even be a rounding error. Even if they're bought and thrown away without ever being used it is a trivial amount of money just now.

 

However, if companies develop a low cost and simple ventilator that is suitable to be used as a throwaway crisis response then it could have huge benefits for health agencies and for making ventilators much more affordable to less well developed health services.

[Neil]

5 minutes ago, LBRJ said:

 

No of course not......But whats sauce for the almighty orange one is, or should be, sauce for others we dont like much....

remember he only got in cos the opposition thought it was their girls turn ....

 

It's Trumps competence, leadership, statesmanship and moral character that are being criticised here not his political tendencies.

[APOLLO]

 

Brit15

[LBRJ]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

 

It's Trumps competence, leadership, statesmanship and moral character that are being criticised here not his political tendencies.

 

That should take about two seconds then cos he has none of the above - and he was Dem for a long time.