Corona-virus - Impact of the Health Situation worldwide

[EddieB]

We need a groan button!

[EddieB]

On a more serious note, we should be grateful that we have independent media that can ask valid questions and hold the Government of the day to account.

 

While I accept that sensationalism is highly irresponsible, asking questions about the lack of testing is quite valid.  What we have seen from other countries is that testing saves lives.  It is not unreasonable to ask the reasons why we have not tested to the same extent as, for example, Germany.  If there are good reasons, then addressing such concerns might help to allay fears.  If not, then it might force the Government’s hand to take action sooner, rather than later.

 

 This morning on LBC Nick Ferrari was questioning a minister on why a British company making testing kits has been allowed to export around sixteen times the number that have been bought for use in this country.  To me that falls well within the remit of the fourth estate.

[jcredfer]

21 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

I believe Government has concentrated every effort on the B-word for quite some time, and with both a mandate and a  public willing it to do so. And while, as said, the meejah is desperate to find scapegoats and any slant that will sell its product, I still think UK is doing a better job of handling the crisis than is apparent across the Atlantic. 

 

The US Gov't is probably working far better than that Eejit can keep up with, hence his blether and the contrary statements, as he manages the occasional comprehension of a fact or two.

 

Julian

[chris p bacon]

2 hours ago, Allegheny1600 said:

Exactly!

Also - look at how South Korea has handled this crisis and how few casualties they have.

Nough said.

 

Just listening on the radio to 2 'experts' on this subject.

 

Expert 1 said we should be testing like South Korea and Germany and producing more testing kit, but then said he had no idea of how much kit could actually be produced and on what timescale. His priority was to test for who had it now.

 

Expert 2 said that SK's testing suited them as their C19 cases were in clusters where ours aren't, he also said Germany was testing specific age groups and ignoring others which gives incorrect data. His priority was to concentrate on the antibody test as that was more specific and would be better in the long run.

 

So that's good they all agree on the the best action to take 

 

(I don't know what station as I flick through them sometimes)

[robert17649]

I get the impression that there is a slight oddness about testing.

 

The purpose is to identify the victim , trace contacts isolate and treat. This approach which has been used effectively in the smallpox outbreak in the70's in Birmingham, and for goodness sake at least twice in Uganda, both events when I lived there, and as a medical student in the 70's. This process was abandoned pretty quickly in this out break, very possibly as a blind side to the fact that there were not enough testing kits available.

 

now testing is just a question of who should be off work or who can go back when self isolating. This is important but a bit like pig weighing, but there are about 25% of NHS staff off for self isolation or sick untested and undiagnosed, who should be tested yesterday.

 

I think that we owe them that at least

[Baby Deltic]

1 hour ago, EddieB said:

On a more serious note, we should be grateful that we have independent media that can ask valid questions and hold the Government of the day to account.

 

While I accept that sensationalism is highly irresponsible, asking questions about the lack of testing is quite valid.  What we have seen from other countries is that testing saves lives.  It is not unreasonable to ask the reasons why we have not tested to the same extent as, for example, Germany.  If there are good reasons, then addressing such concerns might help to allay fears.  If not, then it might force the Government’s hand to take action sooner, rather than later.

 

 This morning on LBC Nick Ferrari was questioning a minister on why a British company making testing kits has been allowed to export around sixteen times the number that have been bought for use in this country.  To me that falls well within the remit of the fourth estate.

I wouldn’t trust anyone in the mainstream media to tell me the time if they were standing in a room full of clocks, let alone challenge the Government narrative.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Baby Deltic

[EddieB]

The other point about testing, is not about comparison with other countries’ strategies, but about gathering and pooling data.  If the world is going to fight this virus, it needs to find out as much about it in as short a time as possible.  Right now so much of the modelling is based on assumptions - rate of transfer, severity of symptoms, recovery rates, etc.  We don’t know if there are multiple strains, different levels of severity, reaction to certain drugs, treatments, temperatures.

 

Only once there is widespread gathering and dissemination of data can there be more effective measures put in place.  It’s up to every country to do “their bit” towards this body of knowledge.

[Baby Deltic]

[Nearholmer]

5 minutes ago, Baby Deltic said:

mainstream media

So, we are to put our trust in non-mainstream media then, or the bloke next to us in the bus queue (if we had those any more), or the woman at the chip shop, or that wild-eyed bloke who makes YouTube videos based on his personal reading of Revelations?

 

You pays yet money, and yet takes yer choice, I guess.

[jcredfer]

As of 5 minutes ago, the "published" figures stood at

 

Currently {Recorded} - 882,784 Cases:- Active 653,459: - Recovered 185,175:- Deaths 44,150. Those will have altered slightly by the time I have typed this.   {Info from Gov't Health Ministries, which, as we all know, may well be suspect in themselves, but better then mainstream media.}

 

Julian

 

[Reorte]

I'd trust the mainstream media in this country at least to get the numbers right (barring the usual chances of human error there). Which numbers they put emphasis on, or report at all, and the spin and weighting and interpretation they put on them can all be very questionable but they'll get raked over the coals if they're too loose with getting those sorts of facts wrong.

[kevinlms]

So today in Melbourne, we have a man caught drink driving after crashing into a shop, while supposed to be self-isolating for 14 days. Some people are plain crazy. This was after a couple come back from Aspen (USA snowfield) and ignored their isolating and went on a shopping spree and infected several people.

 

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/flogs-victorian-mp-scathing-of-quarantine-flouters-20200401-p54g4x.html

[chris p bacon]

28 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

So, we are to put our trust in non-mainstream media then, or the bloke next to us in the bus queue

 

Funnily enough I went to the Post Office yesterday. Standing behind me in the queue was a chap of about mid 60's who claimed that this is the government creating and spreading the virus so it kills off old people and they don't have to pay pensions and save money. 

I asked what news report he saw this on and his reply was that he hadn't had a TV for 7 years.....I noticed his fingers had nicotene stains and said that it wasn't old people that  were dieing but those with poor lungs such as smokers (I know...I shouldn't but it was too easy)  When I exited the PO and told him it was his turn inside, I heard him telling the woman behind him that the Governement were targeting and killing off smokers.........

 

Edited April 1, 2020 by chris p bacon

[kevinlms]

2 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

Funnily enough I went to the Post Office yesterday. Standing behind me in the queue was a chap of about mid 60's who claimed that this is the government creating and spreading the virus so it kills off old people and they don't have to pay pensions and save money. 

I asked what news report he saw this on and his reply was that he hadn't had a TV for 7 years.....I noticed his fingers had nicotene stains and said that it wasn't old people that the were dieing but those with poor lungs such as smokers (I know...I shouldn't but it was too easy)  When I exited the PO and told him it was his turn inside, I heard him telling the woman behind him that the Governemtn were targeting and killing off smokers.........

 

The last bit of information, is always the correct one!

Perhaps you should have mentioned that it was April Fool's day?

[raymw]

If they were targeting smokers, I'd be worried, 'cos they'd have to collect the taxes from non-smokers.

 

wrt telling time in a room full of clocks. OK if all the clocks show the same time. The problem with the media, is they don't say that they don't know, 'cos nobody would be interested. When JFK was shot, it was a while before it was decided what the weapon was, but every UK paper/tv said what it was, when in fact at the time, nobody knew.

[Baby Deltic]

56 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

So, we are to put our trust in non-mainstream media then, or the bloke next to us in the bus queue (if we had those any more), or the woman at the chip shop, or that wild-eyed bloke who makes YouTube videos based on his personal reading of Revelations?

 

You pays yet money, and yet takes yer choice, I guess.

Not necessarily but I look at numerous sources, both mainstream and non-mainstream to get a balanced view. 

[jcredfer]

41 minutes ago, Lantavian said:

 

Why are they better than mainstream media?

 

You haven't given a link to where you got the information from, so why should we even trust you to have transcribed it correctly? Do you have a copy editor who reads your post and checks it before you publish it?

 

 

 

Feel free to look up the organisations which gather the statistics, for yourself.  You should find numbers which are very much similar to each other and will have a, very small, variation dependant on timings for collection / dissemination of the information.  You will find several out there and you can ask them yourself.

 

I the meantime, it's time for me to get some exercise, walking with the ducks under the hosepipe, as it isn't raining at the moment.

 

Julian

 

 

[Baby Deltic]

2 minutes ago, Lantavian said:

 

But how do you decide which sources are reliable? 

 

 

Look at the credentials of the sources they are quoting. There are quite a few scientists who are virologists and epidemiologists who disagree with the mainstream narrative.

[Nearholmer]

Back to what we discussed a day or two ago: it’s all down to critical faculties.

 

If a person’s are good, they will spot bias, BS, propaganda, ill-informed nonsense etc easily; if a person’s aren’t, they will be gullible.

 

Liars and charlatans rely on the fact that most people are gullible, and use an array of simple tricks to gull even those that aren’t.

 

Some of the liars and charlatans are in the employ of states, interest groups, etc, but a lot do it for simple personal profit or self-aggrandisement. Trouble with the last of these is that delusional thinking contagious!
 

[jcredfer]

4 minutes ago, Lantavian said:

 

You provided the statistics. You tell us where they came from. It's a bit rich after complaining about the mainstream media, which has lots of people checking information, that you seem to be unhelpful.

 

 

 

I stated where they were from, yet you continue to complain at people posting, but it's too nice out here, to bother.

 

ttfn

Julian

 

[Rugd1022]

Blatantly half inched from Pistonheads....

 

[EddieB]

14 minutes ago, Lantavian said:

 

But how do you decide which sources are reliable? 

 

 

A good question, as to some extent we all build up a “track record” of reliability, especially where we may be acquainted with news stories being reported (and newsworthy events that go unreported in certain media).  Sadly I have found your organisation to be highly selective, particularly in its news bulletins, but also when I have visited its website to get verification of certain atrocities and found a complete absence of reportage.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, chris p bacon said:

 

Funnily enough I went to the Post Office yesterday. Standing behind me in the queue was a chap of about mid 60's who claimed that this is the government creating and spreading the virus so it kills off old people and they don't have to pay pensions and save money. 

I asked what news report he saw this on and his reply was that he hadn't had a TV for 7 years.....I noticed his fingers had nicotene stains and said that it wasn't old people that  were dieing but those with poor lungs such as smokers (I know...I shouldn't but it was too easy)  When I exited the PO and told him it was his turn inside, I heard him telling the woman behind him that the Governement were targeting and killing off smokers.........

 

 

It might be this story that was doing the rounds a few days ago that the chap in the Post Office was referring to. I've included a link to Googles list of results so that a choice of reportage can be made. I doubt we will ever know the truth of the matter, one way or the other.

[Nearholmer]

19 minutes ago, Baby Deltic said:

There are quite a few scientists who are virologists and epidemiologists who disagree with the mainstream narrative.

You mean experts who differ in opinion from the experts who are currently on the sharp end?

 

Naturally, it will always be so.

 

But that is just scientific discourse, which is a bit different from “the media” ....... the best the media can do is report on that discourse in a balanced way, the worst they can do is make stuff up, and some of them specialise in spinning whatever is about from any source, to sensationalise it or fit their own ‘angle’.

 

From what I’ve seen, the less scurrilous media outlets have been pretty good at reporting the existence of credible scientific opinion that differs from the approach being taken by those at the sharp end ...... the Oxford work in comparison with the ICL work, for instance.

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

So, we are to put our trust in non-mainstream media then, or the bloke next to us in the bus queue (if we had those any more), or the woman at the chip shop, or that wild-eyed bloke who makes YouTube videos based on his personal reading of Revelations?

 

You pays yet money, and yet takes yer choice, I guess.

The last one. Definitely.