Corona-virus - Impact of the Health Situation worldwide

[robert17649]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Where? By whom? 
 

What I’ve observed over the past few days is some ploddish coppers overstep the mark, followed by a strong steer towards sensiblenesses from their bosses, and few idiots flouting the legal limits of SD, and in the most extreme cases getting fined or imprisoned for it by the courts.

 

The crazy plods, and the crazy flouters are the outliers.

 

In the middle, a great stodge of sensible police officers, and sensible citizens, all negotiating their way through exceptionally difficult times.

 

Yes, mega important to reset to normal, repeal the ‘lockdown’ laws, return to normal policing as fast as possible when circumstance permits (remember how it all went wrong during and after the miner’s strike?) etc etc, but it seems a bit soon to get exercised about the loss of our liberties yet. Most people are more concerned about the loss of their loved ones.

 

As for the difference between the guidance and the law: the law normally acts as a fence at the outer-edge of social conventions, the problem is that we didn’t have a set of social conventions suitable to ensure collective wellbeing during a very-threatening pandemic, so we have government guidance instead.

 

Social conventions are ‘self policing’, social pressures keep most of the order, and until the government guidance “embeds”, and become social conventions, or until society tacitly decides that actually it wants to establish some other set of ‘pandemic conventions’ (which could happen .... the country could ‘wave two fingers’ at the guidance as currently set), there is bound to be a bit of a settling-down period.

 

 

 

None of the civil liberties stuff or for that matter any of the social right or wrong matters a damn, people are dying of this and it is incumbent on all of us to do our best to prevent as much of that as possible. We have only got the advice we have got etc etc.

 

Sort out the right or wrong when it's over. which it will be, it is my prayer that as many of us as possible will be here to see it. That will be the time to hold the idiots monkeys plonkers etc to account' there's no point in fussing about that now

[Ron Ron Ron]

Italy has been receiving help from China and now Russia and even Cuba.

 

Firstly, 3 weeks ago the Chinese sent several medical teams who had worked on the outbreak in Wuhan.

Now Russia is sending a lot of help, both medical and other help, as well as plane loads of medical equipment and supplies.

Cuba has also sent a medical team to help out.

 

Here is a photo taken today of a Russian team, working with Italians (in the blue outfits), preparing to disinfect an old peoples home (care home) in the Bergamo area.

As in some parts of France and Spain, old people's homes in the area have experienced abnormally high death rates during the Coronavirus pandemic.

There are a number of Russian teams in the area assigned to these duties.

 

 

[Reorte]

17 minutes ago, robert17649 said:

None of the civil liberties stuff or for that matter any of the social right or wrong matters a damn, people are dying of this and it is incumbent on all of us to do our best to prevent as much of that as possible. We have only got the advice we have got etc etc.

 

Oh but they do matter, very much indeed and it's both scary and depressing to see them being so easily dismissed by some people. Yes, extraordinary circumstances require extraordinary measures and it's fair enough to expect people to accept additional restrictions under these circumstances but you must not use that to throw any checks and balances out of the window.

[chris p bacon]

4 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Italy has been receiving help from China and now Russia and even Cuba.

 

Putin has always wanted to destabilise Europe and has seized the chance with Italy.  Germany denied medical help to Italy right at the start which has pushed a lot of Italians even further from the EU.

[Baby Deltic]

[Ron Ron Ron]

On the subject of the increase in road traffic, I witnessed what I thought surprising numbers of cars on the roads yesterday.

 

Mrs Ron had a minor operation 2 weeks ago, the day before all routine hospital work was stopped at our large regional hospital.

Yesterday she had to return for a plaster caste and stitches to be removed; for her recovery progress to be checked and for a new lightweight caste was put on for the next 4 weeks.

 

On our way to the hospital, which is about 11 miles away, we were both surprised at how busy the local roads and particularly the motorway (M27 between Southampton and Portsmouth) was.

Quite a lot quieter than normal, but still surprisingly busy, considering what we expected, having emerged from our silo.

Judging by the motorway traffic, I'm guessing that there must still be a lot of people working.

 

 

.

[Reorte]

I can still hear quite a bit of traffic during the day from the nearby A6, although a high proportion of that is lorries and stuff still needs moving around.

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

14 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

Putin has always wanted to destabilise Europe and has seized the chance with Italy.  Germany denied medical help to Italy right at the start which has pushed a lot of Italians even further from the EU.

 

I drew some slight criticism when I mentioned the EU a few days ago, so treading very carefully and in no way wishing to make any political point, you have touched on something that's getting almost no press or TV coverage here in the UK.

There was almost no press coverage of the emergency EU Council meetings last week. The Finance ministers on Tuesday, or the heads of government (all the prime ministers) on Thursday.

Both meetings were virtual, using video teleconferencing.

In brief, it has been reported widely in the mainland European media that there was an almighty falling out, with angry exchanges taking place.

I have also heard this from my family links in Italy.

 

Italy, for one, are not very happy at the moment and are going to be left in a far bigger economic mess than before the Coronavirus struck.

What will emerge from this I will not speculate on, but I have a feeling that Italy might have a new friend in the Chinese.

Putin may also be interested in expanding his influence.

There will be interesting times ahead. 

 

 

.

[Jonboy]

I take the wife too and from her job each day, I noted there seemed to be more traffic about today in the two towns, but still very little between them.

[Nearholmer]

2 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

There will be interesting times ahead. 

 

Oh great! Just what we'll all need to calm our nerves at the end of this lot. 

 

I think you are right though ...... it has been blindingly obvious for a long time that the Russian leadership would like rid of the possibility of an even-slightly-united Europe, as fast as possible, and as cheaply as possible. And, judged by their own criteria they must feel very satisfied in a job well done, so far. 

 

China, seems to me to be slightly different, more about thumbing the nose at the US than a direct interest in the dismantling of the EU.

[jjb1970]

I suspect those receiving help are rather happy that Russia and China are providing it. 

[John Tomlinson]

1 minute ago, jjb1970 said:

I suspect those receiving help are rather happy that Russia and China are providing it. 

And utterly damning surely that their fellow Europeans in northern Europe said "pass".

 

A fundamental test of survival for the EU will IMHO be part of the new post Coronavirus world.

 

John.

[LBRJ]

There has been a lot more road traffic about today......almost not far off  the level one would expect  on a typical sunday in winter.

Lately it has been more like the middle of the night.

 

source: I have ears and live close to a major transpeninne route.

[LBRJ]

2 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

And utterly damning surely that their fellow Europeans in northern Europe said "pass".

 

A fundamental test of survival for the EU will IMHO be part of the new post Coronavirus world.

 

John.

 

Pretty much a given.

They need to step up to the plate and help out their suffering member states pretty soon.

[NIK]

14 minutes ago, LBRJ said:

There has been a lot more road traffic about today......almost not far off  the level one would expect  on a typical sunday in winter.

Lately it has been more like the middle of the night.

 

source: I have ears and live close to a major transpeninne route.

Hi,

 

There could be all sorts of reasons for more individual road journeys. It was six days since the UK 'every home lockdown' and the government I think recommended doing a weekly shop. Also some businesses and new volunteer organisations have been using people to do new shifts and in 2020's Britain that can lead to people using a car to do those shifts.

 

Also some people may have been coming out of specialised lockdown yesterday.

 

Maybe the risks of doing a car journey need to be considered. I guess that will need to involve the latest health info, human factors, increase in infection/contamination during a normal journey, chances of car breaking down, consequences of road accidents multiplied by probability of different types of road accident, percentage of emergency staff available to deal with road accidents etc. As there is no analogue in UK history to this crisis.

 

Take care.

 

Nick

[jjb1970]

If they want people to minimise journeys to the shop and do a weekly trip then even for single people that means they are much more likely to drive to the shop. 

[maico]

31 minutes ago, LBRJ said:

 

Pretty much a given.

They need to step up to the plate and help out their suffering member states pretty soon.

 

Well Germany is, cases from French hotspot are being flown to German hospitals which have spare capacity. The UK on the other hand is exporting COVID-19 around the World https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/01/africa/watoto-childrens-choir-coronavirus-intl/index.html

Many of the new cases in China are students returning from the West with many from the UK testing positive but being asymptomatic

[jjb1970]

1 minute ago, maico said:

 

Well Germany is, cases from French hotspot are being flown to German hospitals which have spare capacity. The UK on the other hand is exporting COVID-19 around the World https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/01/africa/watoto-childrens-choir-coronavirus-intl/index.html

Many of the new cases in China are students returning from the West with many from the UK testing positive but being asymptomatic

 

Thank god no other country has exported the virus. Message to Boris, more effort required. 

[LBRJ]

4 minutes ago, maico said:

 

Well Germany is, cases from French hotspot are being flown to German hospitals which have spare capacity. The UK on the other hand is exporting COVID-19 around the World https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/01/africa/watoto-childrens-choir-coronavirus-intl/index.html

Many of the new cases in China are students returning from the West with many from the UK testing positive but being asymptomatic

 

Hardly "exporting around the world" - you really need to mind your words, spreading such dis info on an important topic

Edited April 1, 2020 by LBRJ

[monkeysarefun]

Australia is doing around 560 tests per 100,000 population, which is higher than almost everywhere else and about what Sth Korea has been doing. Because our initial cases were recognised early and were restricted to a small group of the population - Chinese visitors/students and later returning cruise ship passengers -  we were able to target affected areas with intense testing.  The current slow rate of daily growth in cases - now around a third of what it was last week is cause for hope that most initial cases were discovered and therefore  community transmission is not such a major concern as was initially feared.

 

Our death rate is currently 0.44%, much lower than almost anywhere else,  which due to our comprehensive testing  might be a more accurate indication of the lethality of the virus, similar to how the German stats which are similar are being interpreted - I can't imagine that Australians and Germans  are just more resistant to it..

[NIK]

17 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

If they want people to minimise journeys to the shop and do a weekly trip then even for single people that means they are much more likely to drive to the shop. 

Hi,

 

Yes, in the absence of info I could find as to whether very short car journeys are a greater risk than walking I drove to my local UK supermarket to do a food shop that should last a week. The pavements in my town are less than 2 metres wide and I can't carry a weeks shopping.

 

Still little pasta or vegetarian protein in that shop and I forgot to look in case there a couple of foods that would be useful for me were back in stock (I had a lurghi a few weeks ago and I feel I should build my strength up).

 

I wish I'd bought more parts in previous years to complete my model railway projects but I didn't have the money.

 

Take care.

 

Nick

[Ron Ron Ron]

11 minutes ago, maico said:

 

Well Germany is, cases from French hotspot are being flown to German hospitals which have spare capacity.

 

A much publiced exercise by Germany over the weekend, following the bust up at the EU summit on Thursday.

 

I'm not sure what conclusion to draw from this?

News media were alerted to cover the story of the German Air Force flying hospital taking a grand total of 6 Covid-19 patients from Italy to German hospitals on Saturday.

Similarly the much publicised airlift of French patients from Strasbourg to Ulm in Germany, on the same day. It turned out to be just 2 patients, although several more have since been moved from Mulhouse.

Italy have tens of thousands of Coronavirus patients in hospitals, including more than 4,000 in intensive/critical care. More than 13,000 dead to date.

France are reported to have some 6,000 in intensive care.

 

.

[NIK]

4 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said:

Australia is doing around 560 tests per 100,000 population, which is higher than almost everywhere else and about what Sth Korea has been doing. Because our initial cases were recognised early and were restricted to a small group of the population - Chinese visitors/students and later returning cruise ship passengers -  we were able to target affected areas with intense testing.  The current slow rate of daily growth in cases - now around a third of what it was last week is cause for hope that most initial cases were discovered and therefore  community transmission is not such a major concern as was initially feared.

 

Our death rate is currently 0.44%, much lower than almost anywhere else,  which due to our comprehensive testing  might be a more accurate indication of the lethality of the virus, similar to how the German stats which are similar are being interpreted - I can't imagine that Australians and Germans  are just more resistant to it..

Hi,

 

Maybe the death rate is not the most important factor to a country's health service ability to continue to be effective. The efficiency of the virus in infecting health workers and their house mates is probably important to that effectiveness. More morgues can be built but trained staff can't be created in weeks or months. The rough value of the lethality of the virus may not be important to a nations leaders at this stage (the order of magnitude is). Maybe death rates for this virus at this stage are largely dependent on exposure (geography, human factors, PPE), testing capability, existing health of population, age distribution, health service capability, effective health communication.

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

 

[monkeysarefun]

5 hours ago, NIK said:

Hi,

 

Maybe the death rate is not the most important factor to a country's health service ability to continue to be effective. The efficiency of the virus in infecting health workers and their house mates is probably important to that effectiveness. More morgues can be built but trained staff can't be created in weeks or months. The rough value of the lethality of the virus may not be important to a nations leaders at this stage (the order of magnitude is). Maybe death rates for this virus at this stage are largely dependent on exposure (geography, human factors, PPE), testing capability, existing health of population, age distribution, health service capability, effective health communication.

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

 

 

There are a lot of variables such as those you mentioned - for example a younger population would be less of a drain on health services. I'm trying to find the ratio of cases requiring hospitalisation here, I did read it last week and it was  remarkably  low* -  and Australia has quite a high average age. I can't find it now unfortunately but again I think our testing regime (over 261,000 tests to date on a population of 25 mill.) is helping both by isolating cases and their contacts early, and by giving more accurate numbers re likely hospital resource requirements etc.

 

*Just found the NSW figures - 115 hospitalisations out of 2298 cases.  Of these, 43 are in ICU and a third of the 115 are under 60.

Edited April 2, 2020 by monkeysarefun

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, LBRJ said:

 

Hardly "exporting around the world" - you really need to mind your words, spreading such dis info on an important topic

Yes, as the US is finding out, the claims made in some quarters that it is something that effects only those of Asian origin, is truly starting to bite them on the rear.

Business as usual by Easter, was a hope by Trump. They'll be lucky to have the increases of infection not skyrocketing by then.

It's not going to be helped, by some religious organisations, planning huge services in places like Florida, with lots of hugging & embracing!

Nor is the White House helping, by claiming that China's statistics 'are faked'. Maybe they are, but the US needs to get it's own act into gear, instead of denying.