HS2

[Hobby]

Bristol probably...

[black and decker boy]

with thanks to ‘Vulcans Finest’ on WNXX, the government has published detailed plans of phase 2a

 

interesting with lots of changes to WCML on approach to Crewe and what looks to be a new platform on the avoiding lines
 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hs2-phase-2a-plan-and-profile-maps-west-midlands-to-crewe-2021

[Ron Ron Ron]

.

I hope IKEA haven't provided the instruction sheet for assembling the TBM's.......

 

[Zomboid]

You'd rather they had no instructions at all?

[jamie92208]

45 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

You'd rather they had no instructions at all?

But how big are the Allan Keys they supply?

 

Jamie

[ess1uk]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hs2-phase-2a-plan-and-profile-maps-west-midlands-to-crewe-2021
 

phase 2a plans

 

[jamie92208]

Having now read the article about Crewe in Modern Railways, it seems that HS2 services will use the current platforms 5 and 6. Platforms on thevIndependent lines were initially  considered but that has now been dropped. Platform 12 will be refurbished and Platform 14 brought back into use slong with 2 south facing bays and 2 north facing ones.

 

Jamie

[woodenhead]

50 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

Having now read the article about Crewe in Modern Railways, it seems that HS2 services will use the current platforms 5 and 6. Platforms on thevIndependent lines were initially  considered but that has now been dropped. Platform 12 will be refurbished and Platform 14 brought back into use slong with 2 south facing bays and 2 north facing ones.

 

Jamie

Shifting services in and out of Wales to that side of the station makes sense except of course those that are headed to Manchester.  They've spent years looking at options for a new streamlined Crewe station location and they've ended up just using the bits they have luckily not torn down completely.

 

Can we have Crewe Diesel back and parcels too please....

[Ron Ron Ron]

Another topic related to HS2, is the rolling stock procurement programme.

The competition to select the manufacturer who will supply the initial fleet of trains for HS2, has been in process for a few years now.

This process started a good while back and the list of selected bidders was announced a year ago, with the winning bid due to be announced by this spring.

However the setback to the timescale for opening phase 1 and the effects of the pandemic on government departments, HS2 ltd and the manufacturers themselves, has delayed progress in selecting the winner.

 

(Note: I posted details of the competing manufacturers and their train designs, earlier in this topic thread)

 

One outstanding issue, is the likely substantial cost savings that can be achieved by recognising that more than 2 thirds of the route  ( closer to 3 quarters) will be contained in tunnels, cut and cover, in cuttings, or behind screening, in the form of earth embankments, high fencing, or tree screening, in order to mitigate both noise and the visual impact on local surroundings.

The resulting lack of any “view” reduces the usefulness of windows in the train passenger vehicles.
The inclusion of windows in a modern train vehicle, designed to survive accidents at far higher speeds than “normal”, adds greatly to the engineering costs of those designs.

There’s also the significant added weight, compared to a “windowless” vehicle and with the stress being on maximising energy efficiency and achieving carbon neutral targets, weight savings are a crucial aspect of the design.

If windows are of little or no amenity value to the passenger, then it has been questioned if they are useful or desirable.

A resulting issue, is that of the windowless passenger environment.

The sense of being contained in a windowless tube with no external visual references or orientation may create an unpleasant environment. It might also increase the incidence of motion sickness.

A proposed solution is to replace windows with electronic display screens, which could display synthesised external scenes, or restful and soothing artwork.

Display screens could also double as entertainment screens and serve as a revenue source by displaying advertisements and playing advertising videos, all of which would provide revenue to help bolster the economics of operating the HS service.

 

You may scoff, but the idea of windowless trains, filled with such modern tech, appears to have found favour with the “powers that be”, particularly the treasury. Some sources say it is very likely to happen.

We’ll have to wait and see if this idea is adopted.

 

 

 

 

.

[Zomboid]

Possibly for the "captive" trains, but the classic line ones will probably be spending over 50% of their time running on non high speed lines.

 

Though rationally it makes sense, how popular such an idea will be with the public remains to be seen. Its not the view so much as the natural light that I think I'd miss.

 

Edit: Oh yes, April 1st... Very well done if it's an April fool, fooled me and it looks like I'm not the only one. What's more worrying is that it's entirely within the realms of what we expect from the DfT. And if it's *not* an April fool then I wouldn't be surprised either...

Edited April 1, 2021 by Zomboid

[corneliuslundie]

Where is the "horrified" button?

I am aware that many passengers do not seem ever to look out the window - railway enthusiasts excepted of course) but I fear that it could be an expensive and disastrous experiment if it puts people off using the trains.

And I would object strongly to being subjected to advertising in such a manner - in fact I think it would lead to an outcry.

Note that even aeroplanes have windows, and they of all passenger transport vehicles, have little need for them.

Jonathan

PS It probably doesn't really matter to me as I am unlikely ever to need to use HS2.

Forgot the date

Edited April 1, 2021 by corneliuslundie

[DY444]

31 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Another topic related to HS2, is the rolling stock procurement programme.

The competition to select the manufacturer who will supply the initial fleet of trains for HS2, has been in process for a few years now.

This process started a good while back and the list of selected bidders was announced a year ago, with the winning bid due to be announced by this spring.

However the setback to the timescale for opening phase 1 and the effects of the pandemic on government departments, HS2 ltd and the manufacturers themselves, has delayed progress in selecting the winner.

 

(Note: I posted details of the competing manufacturers and their train designs, earlier in this topic thread)

 

One outstanding issue, is the likely substantial cost savings that can be achieved by recognising that more than 2 thirds of the route  ( closer to 3 quarters) will be contained in tunnels, cut and cover, in cuttings, or behind screening, in the form of earth embankments, high fencing, or tree screening, in order to mitigate both noise and the visual impact on local surroundings.

The resulting lack of any “view” reduces the usefulness of windows in the train passenger vehicles.
The inclusion of windows in a modern train vehicle, designed to survive accidents at far higher speeds than “normal”, adds greatly to the engineering costs of those designs.

There’s also the significant added weight, compared to a “windowless” vehicle and with the stress being on maximising energy efficiency and achieving carbon neutral targets, weight savings are a crucial aspect of the design.

If windows are of little or no amenity value to the passenger, then it has been questioned if they are useful or desirable.

A resulting issue, is that of the windowless passenger environment.

The sense of being contained in a windowless tube with no external visual references or orientation may create an unpleasant environment. It might also increase the incidence of motion sickness.

A proposed solution is to replace windows with electronic display screens, which could display synthesised external scenes, or restful and soothing artwork.

Display screens could also double as entertainment screens and serve as a revenue source by displaying advertisements and playing advertising videos, all of which would provide revenue to help bolster the economics of operating the HS service.

 

You may scoff, but the idea of windowless trains, filled with such modern tech, appears to have found favour with the “powers that be”, particularly the treasury. Some sources say it is very likely to happen.

We’ll have to wait and see if this idea is adopted.

 

Windowless trains is a ridiculous idea.  I predict there will be huge public resistance to it; indeed I will state here and now that I will never travel on a windowless train, period.

Edited April 1, 2021 by DY444

[Richard E]

Windowless trains - hmmm, I'll say nothing ...

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Richard E

[Fenman]

52 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Another topic related to HS2, is the rolling stock procurement programme.

The competition to select the manufacturer who will supply the initial fleet of trains for HS2, has been in process for a few years now.

This process started a good while back and the list of selected bidders was announced a year ago, with the winning bid due to be announced by this spring.

However the setback to the timescale for opening phase 1 and the effects of the pandemic on government departments, HS2 ltd and the manufacturers themselves, has delayed progress in selecting the winner.

 

(Note: I posted details of the competing manufacturers and their train designs, earlier in this topic thread)

 

One outstanding issue, is the likely substantial cost savings that can be achieved by recognising that more than 2 thirds of the route  ( closer to 3 quarters) will be contained in tunnels, cut and cover, in cuttings, or behind screening, in the form of earth embankments, high fencing, or tree screening, in order to mitigate both noise and the visual impact on local surroundings.

The resulting lack of any “view” reduces the usefulness of windows in the train passenger vehicles.
The inclusion of windows in a modern train vehicle, designed to survive accidents at far higher speeds than “normal”, adds greatly to the engineering costs of those designs.

There’s also the significant added weight, compared to a “windowless” vehicle and with the stress being on maximising energy efficiency and achieving carbon neutral targets, weight savings are a crucial aspect of the design.

If windows are of little or no amenity value to the passenger, then it has been questioned if they are useful or desirable.

A resulting issue, is that of the windowless passenger environment.

The sense of being contained in a windowless tube with no external visual references or orientation may create an unpleasant environment. It might also increase the incidence of motion sickness.

A proposed solution is to replace windows with electronic display screens, which could display synthesised external scenes, or restful and soothing artwork.

Display screens could also double as entertainment screens and serve as a revenue source by displaying advertisements and playing advertising videos, all of which would provide revenue to help bolster the economics of operating the HS service.

 

You may scoff, but the idea of windowless trains, filled with such modern tech, appears to have found favour with the “powers that be”, particularly the treasury. Some sources say it is very likely to happen.

We’ll have to wait and see if this idea is adopted.

 

 

 

 

.

 

What's today's date, again?

 

Though having written that, one of the big Middle Eastern airlines has installed giant screens in a first class suite that otherwise would be windowless, on which is displayed a view outside the plane (or anything else you fancy from the IFE).

 

Paul

 

PS: Exactly 6,000 posts, Ron Ron Ron? You are a very prolific man!

 

[Titan]

They had the same theory for underground trains over a century ago.  End result was all underground trains since have had full size windows, because even if the only things you can see are the lit stations, people still want to be able to see them.

[62613]

1 hour ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Another topic related to HS2, is the rolling stock procurement programme.

The competition to select the manufacturer who will supply the initial fleet of trains for HS2, has been in process for a few years now.

This process started a good while back and the list of selected bidders was announced a year ago, with the winning bid due to be announced by this spring.

However the setback to the timescale for opening phase 1 and the effects of the pandemic on government departments, HS2 ltd and the manufacturers themselves, has delayed progress in selecting the winner.

 

(Note: I posted details of the competing manufacturers and their train designs, earlier in this topic thread)

 

One outstanding issue, is the likely substantial cost savings that can be achieved by recognising that more than 2 thirds of the route  ( closer to 3 quarters) will be contained in tunnels, cut and cover, in cuttings, or behind screening, in the form of earth embankments, high fencing, or tree screening, in order to mitigate both noise and the visual impact on local surroundings.

The resulting lack of any “view” reduces the usefulness of windows in the train passenger vehicles.
The inclusion of windows in a modern train vehicle, designed to survive accidents at far higher speeds than “normal”, adds greatly to the engineering costs of those designs.

There’s also the significant added weight, compared to a “windowless” vehicle and with the stress being on maximising energy efficiency and achieving carbon neutral targets, weight savings are a crucial aspect of the design.

If windows are of little or no amenity value to the passenger, then it has been questioned if they are useful or desirable.

A resulting issue, is that of the windowless passenger environment.

The sense of being contained in a windowless tube with no external visual references or orientation may create an unpleasant environment. It might also increase the incidence of motion sickness.

A proposed solution is to replace windows with electronic display screens, which could display synthesised external scenes, or restful and soothing artwork.

Display screens could also double as entertainment screens and serve as a revenue source by displaying advertisements and playing advertising videos, all of which would provide revenue to help bolster the economics of operating the HS service.

 

You may scoff, but the idea of windowless trains, filled with such modern tech, appears to have found favour with the “powers that be”, particularly the treasury. Some sources say it is very likely to happen.

We’ll have to wait and see if this idea is adopted.

 

 

 

 

.

Did someone say it was April 1st, or is this serious? I dare anyone to post this on Facebook or the like, just to see the reaction!

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by 62613

[pete_mcfarlane]

1 hour ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

The resulting lack of any “view” reduces the usefulness of windows in the train passenger vehicles.
The inclusion of windows in a modern train vehicle, designed to survive accidents at far higher speeds than “normal”, adds greatly to the engineering costs of those designs.

There’s also the significant added weight, compared to a “windowless” vehicle and with the stress being on maximising energy efficiency and achieving carbon neutral targets, weight savings are a crucial aspect of the design.

If windows are of little or no amenity value to the passenger, then it has been questioned if they are useful or desirable.

A resulting issue, is that of the windowless passenger environment.

The sense of being contained in a windowless tube with no external visual references or orientation may create an unpleasant environment. It might also increase the incidence of motion sickness.

A proposed solution is to replace windows with electronic display screens, which could display synthesised external scenes, or restful and soothing artwork.

Display screens could also double as entertainment screens and serve as a revenue source by displaying advertisements and playing advertising videos, all of which would provide revenue to help bolster the economics of operating the HS service.

I'm sure we've been here before, with Mr Bulleid and his various windowless buffet cars. 

 

Of course, you could always keep the windows and put up display screens on the tunnel walls (like the pretty lady who welcomes you to Switzerland on the inter-terminal shuttle at Zurich airport....) 

[billbedford]

So they are putting translucent noise screen on the Colne viaduct so that people can see the landscape, and designing windowless trains at the same time?

 

No sorry it does not compute...

[scottystitch]

 

[phil-b259]

1 hour ago, 62613 said:

Did someone say it was April 1st, or is this serious? I dare anyone to post this on Facebook or the like, just to see the reaction!

 

 

Could be a bit of both - Japanese Shinkansen trains seem to normally have airline style oval windows and the smallish windows in the Pendalino are presidents for trains having poor viewing opportunities.

[caradoc]

Actually, windowless trains are an excellent idea, because apart from reducing the cost of, and simplifying, train design, they eliminate the danger of vandal-thrown objects entering the train. Also, there are parts of the route (I'm thinking of Birmingham in particular) that no-one in their right mind would want to gaze at from a train anyway  

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

Concept rendering.

First class, with standard beyond the partition....

 

 

It's not a new concept...

Subway train proposal.....

 

 

 

[Richard E]

3 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Another topic related to HS2, is the rolling stock procurement programme.

The competition to select the manufacturer who will supply the initial fleet of trains for HS2, has been in process for a few years now.

This process started a good while back and the list of selected bidders was announced a year ago, with the winning bid due to be announced by this spring.

However the setback to the timescale for opening phase 1 and the effects of the pandemic on government departments, HS2 ltd and the manufacturers themselves, has delayed progress in selecting the winner.

 

(Note: I posted details of the competing manufacturers and their train designs, earlier in this topic thread)

 

One outstanding issue, is the likely substantial cost savings that can be achieved by recognising that more than 2 thirds of the route  ( closer to 3 quarters) will be contained in tunnels, cut and cover, in cuttings, or behind screening, in the form of earth embankments, high fencing, or tree screening, in order to mitigate both noise and the visual impact on local surroundings.

The resulting lack of any “view” reduces the usefulness of windows in the train passenger vehicles.
The inclusion of windows in a modern train vehicle, designed to survive accidents at far higher speeds than “normal”, adds greatly to the engineering costs of those designs.

There’s also the significant added weight, compared to a “windowless” vehicle and with the stress being on maximising energy efficiency and achieving carbon neutral targets, weight savings are a crucial aspect of the design.

If windows are of little or no amenity value to the passenger, then it has been questioned if they are useful or desirable.

A resulting issue, is that of the windowless passenger environment.

The sense of being contained in a windowless tube with no external visual references or orientation may create an unpleasant environment. It might also increase the incidence of motion sickness.

A proposed solution is to replace windows with electronic display screens, which could display synthesised external scenes, or restful and soothing artwork.

Display screens could also double as entertainment screens and serve as a revenue source by displaying advertisements and playing advertising videos, all of which would provide revenue to help bolster the economics of operating the HS service.

 

You may scoff, but the idea of windowless trains, filled with such modern tech, appears to have found favour with the “powers that be”, particularly the treasury. Some sources say it is very likely to happen.

We’ll have to wait and see if this idea is adopted.

 

 

 

 

.

 

Nice one - great April Fool that really worked, it seems, from the reactions you initially got.

 

Well done.

[Ron Ron Ron]

2 minutes ago, Richard E said:

 

Nice one - great April Fool that really worked, it seems, from the reactions you initially got.

 

Well done.

 

Unfortunately, not enough reaction. Bah !

Sussed too easily by you lot.

 

p.s.

The idea was actually floated at an early stage.

 

.

[jamie92208]

Weren't  the windowless early tube stock, christened  padded cells.

 

Jamie