Ron Ron Ron Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Northmoor said: I'll bet when the line in complete, that construction site becomes a popular Nature Reserve. The tunnel portals and the work site are beyond the bridge in this rendering.... The portals (with the M25 behind)...... . Edited May 7, 2021 by Ron Ron Ron 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandora Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 (edited) Political commentators have interpreted the Queen's Speech to Parliament as containing a hint the £32 bn East Midlands to Leeds leg of HS2 is to be cancelled Edited May 12, 2021 by Pandora Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 12, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Pandora said: Political commentators have interpreted the Queen's Speech to Parliament as containing a hint the £32 bn East Midlands to Leeds leg of HS2 is to be cancelled There was a comment from somebody in Government (Cannot find the news item where I read it) about a week before the QS that road and rail infrastructure spending currently envisaged might not be appropriate post pandemic. That means government speak for cuts to me! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 (edited) From today's Daily telegraph, 12th May 2021. New concern over HS2 leg to Leeds Ministers are preparing to publish the Integrated Rail Plan, which will set out the Government's train line priorities Campaigners have urged Boris Johnson not to abandon a high-speed rail link connecting Leeds to London after the Queen’s Speech stoked fresh fears that the £32bn eastern branch of HS2 could be axed. Ministers will press ahead with the western portion of HS2 which will link Manchester to the capital in a new bill unveiled alongside today's speech setting out the Government's agenda. However, no reference was made to legislation for the more expensive and complicated Phase 2b of the project, due to stretch up to Leeds from a fork in the line at Birmingham. Tim Wood, boss of Transport for the North, said: “It is essential now that the North gets certainty on the delivery of HS2 Phase 2b in full, on both sides of the Pennines, so that our communities are fully connected to the nation’s high-speed network. "Northern Powerhouse Rail and HS2 are two parts of a whole and both are fundamental to the transformative change we need to release the North’s economic potential and cut carbon emissions.” Speculation has been growing in Whitehall that the eastern spur is on the chopping block amid concerns over the snowballing cost of the project. The Prime Minister’s own adviser, the National Infrastructure Commission, has said that regional links should be prioritised before deciding whether the HS2 eastern leg is necessary. Ministers are preparing to publish the Integrated Rail Plan, which will set out the Government’s priorities for upgrading and building new train lines. A government spokesman said: “We are committed to delivering the benefits of high speed rail to passengers and communities in the North and Midlands. “Our Integrated Rail Plan will set out how projects, including HS2 and Northern Powerhouse Rail, can work together to deliver the reliable train services that passengers need and deserve, as quickly as possible.” . Edited May 12, 2021 by Ron Ron Ron 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 1 hour ago, melmerby said: That means government speak for cuts to me! Just allowing for the inevitable overspend on phase 1... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandora Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 Six months ago, during October, Lord Adonis predicted the HS2 leg to Leeds would be cancelled. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 It's to deliver high speed rail travel to the north and the midlands. Midlands: Birmingham. Tick. The North: Manchester (if you live in London and the SE). Tick. No problem. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 12, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, JeffP said: It's to deliver high speed rail travel to the north and the midlands. Midlands: Birmingham. Tick. The North: Manchester (if you live in London and the SE). Tick. No problem. Anything beyond Watford is North for those in London. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted May 12, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 12, 2021 Actually Hatfield. Jonathan 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 I am guessing perhaps they will get to Leeds via the Northern Powerhouse and miss out anything below Sheffield, if Sheffield even gets a look in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandora Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 (edited) London KX to Leeds service, 2 trains per hour 03 / 33 departures, I used them regularly, time for a solid hour of work each way, look forward to their return, probably all we need for business travel, and they save the taxpayer £32 bn if HS2 leg is cancelled Edited May 12, 2021 by Pandora Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted May 12, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 12, 2021 1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said: Actually Hatfield. Jonathan The sign at the start of the M1 in Leedscused to say, Barnsley and London. Jamie 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 12, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 12, 2021 3 hours ago, corneliuslundie said: Actually Hatfield. Jonathan From the North Circular the sign says : 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted May 12, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 12, 2021 But was there a pop group called "The North Watford"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatfield_and_the_North Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 The HS2 eastern leg as currently proposed misses Leicester, runs midway between Derby and Nottingham (no through service to any of them), misses Sheffield (although with a through service) and finally throws a branch into Leeds. By the time it gets to York it's so roundabout that it's less than 30min quicker from London than the existing route. It still has benefits, not least speeding up the very slow axis between Birmingham and Yorkshire or beyond, and relieving ECML capacity (though that's much less critical than WCML). But it's not difficult to see that simple geography makes it less attractive than the western leg, which can serve Manchester directly and provide a much better service to the other centres of the North West that aren't directly on the route. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted May 13, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Edwin_m said: The HS2 eastern leg as currently proposed misses Leicester, runs midway between Derby and Nottingham (no through service to any of them), misses Sheffield (although with a through service) and finally throws a branch into Leeds. By the time it gets to York it's so roundabout that it's less than 30min quicker from London than the existing route. It still has benefits, not least speeding up the very slow axis between Birmingham and Yorkshire or beyond, and relieving ECML capacity (though that's much less critical than WCML). But it's not difficult to see that simple geography makes it less attractive than the western leg, which can serve Manchester directly and provide a much better service to the other centres of the North West that aren't directly on the route. All very true - which is why it might be better to be split into incremental chunks. Thats what the French did with the original TGV route to Lyon - just kept tagging new sections on the end of it every so often till it reached the south coast. Competing the initial segment to somewhere close to Toton and adding spurs to link in with the current MML would facilitate the provision of faster (and more frequent) services from London to the East Midlands and make a start at improving cross country journeys 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 13, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 13, 2021 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-57093884 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandora Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 If the Eastern leg is cancelled, the requirements of the train fleet will probably change, what are the predictions for the size of the fleet of trains for HS2 with / without the line to Leeds? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandora Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) Here is the link to the Govt Integrated Rail Plan: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/high-speed-north-an-integrated-rail-plan-for-the-north-and-midlands-terms-of-reference/terms-of-reference-for-an-integrated-rail-plan-for-the-north-and-midlands Edited May 13, 2021 by Pandora Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandora Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) The case for HS2 Leeds is weaker than the other phases, there is risk of overspend on the first phases of HS2, it would be good wisdom to cancel the Leeds phase until more experience of construction and operation of phase 1 is known. Edited May 13, 2021 by Pandora 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted May 13, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Pandora said: The case for HS2 Leeds is weaker than the other phases, there is risk of overspend on the first phases of HS2, it would be good wisdom to cancel the Leeds phase until more experience of construction and operation of phase 1 is known. Still think that they should commit to doing the leg from Birmingham to somewhere near Toton though. The junction near Birmingham is going to be built as part of phase 1 anyway! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 7 hours ago, phil-b259 said: All very true - which is why it might be better to be split into incremental chunks. Thats what the French did with the original TGV route to Lyon - just kept tagging new sections on the end of it every so often till it reached the south coast. Competing the initial segment to somewhere close to Toton and adding spurs to link in with the current MML would facilitate the provision of faster (and more frequent) services from London to the East Midlands and make a start at improving cross country journeys The snag there is that faster trains from London to Nottingham would use up paths on HS2 out of Euston that are currently planned for Leeds and NE services. If HS2 was later extended northwards then there would be a choice between an outcry from Nottingham if these are withdrawn, and not running as many trains further north as originally intended and promised. Derby has the same problem to some extent, but could be partly solved there by routeing the Sheffield trains that way. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 . 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 HS2 aerial video of the same scene..... https://visual.library.hs2.org.uk/p/share/8ZIIQ8zUtePm/24272 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Edwin_m said: The snag there is that faster trains from London to Nottingham would use up paths on HS2 out of Euston that are currently planned for Leeds and NE services. If HS2 was later extended northwards then there would be a choice between an outcry from Nottingham if these are withdrawn, and not running as many trains further north as originally intended and promised. Derby has the same problem to some extent, but could be partly solved there by routeing the Sheffield trains that way. In order to work, HS2 needs to serve a small number of hubs from which other towns-cities have access. The fewer hubs, the faster & more frequent the services can be. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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