HS2

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, Gordon Connell said:

 

Isn't one of the ideas behind such cars that you won't own them in future, but simply book one for any journey you need?

 

Why you have (probably) already bought your last car - BBC News

That’ll never catch on anywhere outside of London......a bit too Metrocentric that idea.

[Mike Storey]

On 16/05/2021 at 11:53, Pandora said:

The commercial failure of HS1:

 

The National Audit Office has today published a report on the construction and sale of the high speed railway line linking the Channel Tunnel with central London. The High Speed 1 project has delivered a high performing line, which was subsequently sold in a well-managed way which removed the taxpayer’s open-ended support for the project. However, international passenger numbers are falling far short of original forecasts and the project costs exceed the value of journey time saving benefits.

The line was delivered within the overall funding and timescale available for the project. However, this was at a higher cost and later than its targets. Construction of the line cost £6,163 million,18 per cent higher than the target costs. Despite missing these targets, this performance compares well with other railway projects. The line has performed well since it opened, with only 0.43 per cent of services being delayed in 2010-11 by infrastructure incidents, such as track or signal failures.

However, the number of international passengers using the line is lower than originally forecast. Actual passenger numbers between 2007 and 2011 were, on average, two thirds of the level forecast when the Department guaranteed the project debt in 1998, to enable the line to be built. This left the taxpayer exposed to the risk of lower-than-expected passenger income, which had been expected to repay the project debt.

 

I hope the National Audit Office do not have to write the same summary about HS2 in 2041, HS2  sold off due to the taxpayer being exposed to lower-than-expected passenger income

 

That report dated from 2012, some 9 years ago, and just a few years after HS1 opened.

 

This report, by Steer from 2020, is much more relevant: 

 

Executive Summary

High Speed 1 (HS1), and the services which make use of the HighSpeed Line, supports more than £427m of economic benefits to the UK and continental Europe every year. This is equivalent to adding 4,600 employees to the national workforce. In the sixteen years since the first section of HS1 opened, cumulative benefits of £4.5bn have been delivered.

Primarily these benefits come from shorter journey times, as well as a significantly improved journey experience for the 11 million international passengers and 15 million domestic passengers who
use HS1 each year. Almost 4 million of these passengers have switched from using cars and planes, delivering significant reductions in greenhouse gas emissions that support The Government’s
commitment to reach net zero carbon emissions by 2050.

London’s employees gain from access to more affordable housing in Kent, with average property prices in the catchment area of HS1 almost half that of properties in the wider commuter catchment area to the south east of London. HS1 allows a further 164,000 households in Kent to access job opportunities in London. London’s labour market has access to an additional 63,000 highly-skilled individuals with higher education qualifications.

The Kent economy, London and key destinations in Europe also benefit from international services as HS1 contributes to over £400m of annual trade between the South East and Europe, unlocking
foreign direct investment and supporting £2bn of tourist expenditure each year.

There is currently capacity available to provide more domestic and international services on HS1 which could result in more than £101m of additional economic benefits and 0.5 million tonnes less carbon
emissions each year. This report provides compelling evidence of the benefits delivered by HS1 to date, and sets out what could be achieved through making further use of the capacity that is available.

HS1 is a genuine success story from which the UK and the rest of Europe have benefitted significantly, and will continue to benefit into the future.

 

Link to the full report here: https://highspeed1.co.uk/media/vemkxmot/delivering-for-britain-and-beyond-the-economic-impact-of-hs1-march-2020.pdf

[Hobby]

6 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

That’ll never catch on anywhere outside of London......a bit too Metrocentric that idea.

 

It's already used outside London. Birmingham has a similar set up. 

[Mike Storey]

As thread owner, can I just make a plea to everyone please? This thread is becoming a bit like Wheeltappers, and is meant to be about HS2 - short meanders off-topic to make a point are welcome of course, but only short. There is a whole thread or three about electric cars, automatic cars, preferred seating, home working, world peace etc etc etc.

 

My brain is aching from reading through lots of irrelevant stuff to get to the real discussions and info, which should be around current and planned construction, the fate of Phase 2B (with NPR), trains to be used, news snippets directly relevant and other material matters. Continued contributions about whether it is all worthwhile and so on, are not banned for the sake of free speech, but please tread carefully. All that ground has been covered many times over.

 

Please let's try to stay on the subject, to some extent!

[Tricky-CRS]

3 hours ago, Gordon Connell said:

 

Isn't one of the ideas behind such cars that you won't own them in future, but simply book one for any journey you need?

 

Why you have (probably) already bought your last car - BBC News

 

This idea would lead to more train travel, as you would get the train to a location and collect the car at the station. Drive around for your holiday / trip / work etc then return to station hop on train home. The limited mileage of some electric vehicles would not matter so much then, even a touring holiday you could do this way using the train to cover the longer day trips.

[billbedford]

58 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

That’ll never catch on anywhere outside of London......a bit too Metrocentric that idea.

Not if you can't afford the subscription to a 'personal' vehicle...

[pete_mcfarlane]

4 hours ago, Edwin_m said:

I think it was "Three Men in a Boat" that proposed the Victorian alternative of carrying a particularly pungent cheese in your luggage.  Anyone else occupying the compartment tended to move out after 10 minutes or so . 

[boxbrownie]

4 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

It's already used outside London. Birmingham has a similar set up. 

OK then, major conurbations like London and Birmingham 

[boxbrownie]

3 hours ago, billbedford said:

Not if you can't afford the subscription to a 'personal' vehicle...

People will still be owners of vehicles in the foreseeable future, it’ll take a major shift in private vehicle ownership patterns, it could happen in the future but it’s going to be a long way in the future, just like HS2 and Jet Packs.....there....almost got back on thread 

[billbedford]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

People will still be owners of vehicles in the foreseeable future, it’ll take a major shift in private vehicle ownership patterns, it could happen in the future but it’s going to be a long way in the future, just like HS2 and Jet Packs.....there....almost got back on thread 

 

Replied on the Self-drive car thread

[Mike Storey]

16 hours ago, billbedford said:

 

Replied on the Self-drive car thread

Thanks Bill.

 

[lmsforever]

Today traffic bad going out of Aylesbury on A413  due to bridge works just outside of town ,Marsh Lane in Stoke Manderville closed as works for moving Aylesbury to Risboro line and level crossing.Works alongside Wendover is looking nearly ready for next stage of work.Cottages in Wendover beside current railway on road to Butlers cross empty and could soon be demolished.Next stages must be bridge construction over roads adjacent to Wendover by the pictures they will be good structures.

[jamie92208]

11 minutes ago, lmsforever said:

Today traffic bad going out of Aylesbury on A413  due to bridge works just outside of town ,Marsh Lane in Stoke Manderville closed as works for moving Aylesbury to Risboro line and level crossing.Works alongside Wendover is looking nearly ready for next stage of work.Cottages in Wendover beside current railway on road to Butlers cross empty and could soon be demolished.Next stages must be bridge construction over roads adjacent to Wendover by the pictures they will be good structures.

Good to hear, any photos would be much appreciated.

 

Jamie

[lmsforever]

Today    went  out of town on the A41 towards Waddesdon  massive earthworks both sides of road very well marked out trackbed. Came back via road from Thame   traffic lights till 26th june  a stop HS2 demos going on plenty of banners many looked like tree livers.What a waist of time its happenning but they still think it can be stopped.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Curzon Street Station site.

 

The station building will extend all the way up towards Moor St. Station, at the far end of this view....

 

 

 

Looking the other way, where the far end of the platforms, outside of the train shed, will extend to.....

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Ron Ron Ron]

A section of the Colne Valley viaduct alignment, alongside the A412, just north of Denham (Denham water ski club on the right).

 

In the distance, the earthworks are visible where the track, having crossed the A412, will transition from the viaduct into a cutting, before reaching the south portal of the Chilterns Tunnel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[DK123GWR]

8 hours ago, lmsforever said:

Today    went  out of town on the A41 towards Waddesdon  massive earthworks both sides of road very well marked out trackbed. Came back via road from Thame   traffic lights till 26th june  a stop HS2 demos going on plenty of banners many looked like tree livers.What a waist of time its happenning but they still think it can be stopped.

If you have a view there's no reason you shouldn't express it (as long as you aren't hurting anyone of course). I'm sure they don't see it as a waste of time.

[pete_mcfarlane]

I can well imagine the protestors turning up at the opening ceremony with their 'Stop HS2' banners, vowing to stop the scheme from being built.....  

 

[Bernard Lamb]

1 hour ago, DK123GWR said:

If you have a view there's no reason you shouldn't express it (as long as you aren't hurting anyone of course). I'm sure they don't see it as a waste of time.

But there is a big difference between expressing your view and setting up camp in a tree on property where you have no right to be and putting a number of people in difficult situations. It might not cause actual physical harm but it is a dammed nuisance for those people who are just trying to do their job.

Bernard

[Pandora]

1 hour ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

I can well imagine the protestors turning up at the opening ceremony with their 'Stop HS2' banners, vowing to stop the scheme from being built.....  

 

There would be  far  less opposition if the scheme budget had not skyrocketed to the NAO assessment of  "poor  value for outlay " for the cost-benefit analysis.

[melmerby]

13 minutes ago, Pandora said:

There would be  far  less opposition if the scheme budget had not skyrocketed to the NAO assessment of  "poor  value for outlay " for the cost-benefit analysis.

I don't think the stop HS2 protesters worry about the budget.

If it only cost £5 they would still be against it on principle.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

I can well imagine the protestors turning up at the opening ceremony with their 'Stop HS2' banners, vowing to stop the scheme from being built.....  

 

Wasn't there an HS1 protester that was going to lie down in front of the first train as a final attempt to stop it?

[lmsforever]

As regards yesterdays protest judging by the people I saw looked very young and therefore idealistic  surely they could see the works in progress .Round Aylesbury most people in the town are not bothered by HS2 what they care about is better roads affordable housing and good medical services.The line will not have a station here so we will use existing stations the protesters ignore the facts .When construction is finished the line will be part of the landscape and nobody will take any notice of it.The stop groups are shortsighted blinkered and have no idea just what is involved in the building of a major engineering project.

[ess1uk]

Top end of WCML to be resignalled before HS2 opens

[Ron Ron Ron]

There was a video put on YouTube last week, featuring what appeared to be a “normal” middle aged woman, who was at the point of tears, pointing out the “total devastation” at the site of construction work in South Harefield (between West Ruislip and the Colne Valley).

She didn’t seem to appreciate or even acknowledge that much of the “ devastation“ was temporary earthworks, that would all be cleaned up after the line is completed, or that most of the affected surrounding landscape will be restored, with nature then being able to resume its natural course.

 

She also scoffed at the planting of saplings as part of the tree mitigation work, without appearing to realise that not all the mature trees that have been felled were the product of natural woodland, but were planted by landowners, from 100 to 200, or even more years ago.

 

Maybe that nice, well meaning, possibly naive middle-class lady and those like her, would be better directing their efforts towards campaigning for a lot more tree planting and an increase in the amount of environmental mitigation being provided, rather than wasting all their tears and efforts on dreaming that their limp protests will actually do anything that could stop HS2 or even affect its design or construction, in any meaningful way.

 

 

.