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4 minutes ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

I don't think that reality of what's happening has much to do with the by-election result.....

Living not far away and being a regular cyclist in the area and probably the only cyclist who is in favor I wonder how you reach that conclusion. There is a hotbed of opposition mainly based along the A413 between Amersham and Wendover. However when you ask what they suggest in place of HS2 you never get a rational answer.

The irony is that it is a relatively new constituency created because so many people moved into the area. The building of all the houses for them caused far more destruction and environmental damage than the construction of HS2.

Bernard

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I don't know the political landscape of Amersham, but I doubt it was mostly a protest vote against HS2. It's a bit late for that, for starters, and the route is almost entirely tunneled through the constituency. In fact the Chiltern tunnel is pretty much entirely within the constituency. The southern portal being just on the edge of it and the northern portal is just by Great Missenden, with about 2km of HS2 being in the open.

 

So it's probably something else that's caused that result.

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18 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

The irony is that it is a relatively new constituency created because so many people moved into the area. The building of all the houses for them caused far more destruction and environmental damage than the construction of HS2.

 

Which is ironic, because according to the interview I saw this morning, the vote was mainly a protest against new planning laws coming in. It's almost like all these people don't want any new houses in their area.

 

The irony of a party leader banging on about a "greener" future whilst opposing electrically powered mass transit never quite passes me by.

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25 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

I don't know the political landscape of Amersham, but I doubt it was mostly a protest vote against HS2. It's a bit late for that, for starters, and the route is almost entirely tunneled through the constituency. In fact the Chiltern tunnel is pretty much entirely within the constituency. The southern portal being just on the edge of it and the northern portal is just by Great Missenden, with about 2km of HS2 being in the open.

 

So it's probably something else that's caused that result.

 

A group of my friends live there.  One of whom was a parliamentary candidate in the seat a few years ago.  Their view is that the people in the seat are against HS2 as they get the noise and disruption, the construction sites and the loss of land but none of the long-term benefits.  The other big issues were housing, and the NIMBY desire to stop new housing in the seat and a sense that the levelling up agenda meant that resources are not being spent in A&C.  I think there's also an element of this being a safe protest vote. 

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4 minutes ago, Clearwater said:

Their view is that the people in the seat are against HS2 as they get the noise and disruption, the construction sites and the loss of land but none of the long-term benefits. 

Though the reality is that they for the most part don't get any of that since within the constituency it's just a couple of vent shafts and TBMs working away under the countryside.

 

Of course that might not be the perception, but it's what they're actually getting.

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1 hour ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Living not far away and being a regular cyclist in the area and probably the only cyclist who is in favor I wonder how you reach that conclusion.

I probably didn't phrase my comment that well - I was suggesting that people were voting against a fantasy version of HS2 where the Chilterns is entirely concreted over so that rich people can get to Birmingham a few minutes quicker etc etc, rather than what's actually happening. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

I probably didn't phrase my comment that well - I was suggesting that people were voting against a fantasy version of HS2 where the Chilterns is entirely concreted over so that rich people can get to Birmingham a few minutes quicker etc etc, rather than what's actually happening. 

 

 

The problem is that to them it is "real".

The idea of trains having to run faster than current trains do because it means having to build a smaller number of trains is totally beyond their comprehension. As is the point of HS2 having any connection with capacity problems on the WCML. I accept that there is a general protest vote, but if you live near the area you will soon see just how strong the anti HS2 feeling actually is. I have mixed feelings about the result, as irrespective of political views the government getting a kick up the backside must make them consider issues that they would otherwise ignore. 

 

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It's not as if their vote this time around will have any bearing whatsoever on the building of HS2.

In fact, their vote won't have any real bearing, or effect on anything, despite the almighty hoohah the media will make of it......for all of 5 minutes.

 

.

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As the winning candidate noted in a piece on the BBC, MPs don't have the opportunity to stop HS2 as they've already voted in favour.  And national LibDem policy is in favour of it even if locally she was against.   However local MPs can and should have a role in holding HS2 to account if their actions unreasonably affect the constituency.  

 

I believe all the other main candidates also stated their opposition, so I suspect this result is far more to do with other political issues, which it would be against the forum rules to discuss.  

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And ironic that they're voting against HS2 when many of the older houses in the area probably only exist because of the Metropolitan Railway which made commuting to London possible from Amersham and Chesham. They don't call it "Metroland" for nothing.

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2 minutes ago, Edwin_m said:

As the winning candidate noted in a piece on the BBC, MPs don't have the opportunity to stop HS2 as they've already voted in favour.  And national LibDem policy is in favour of it even if locally she was against.   However local MPs can and should have a role in holding HS2 to account if their actions unreasonably affect the constituency.  

 

I believe all the other main candidates also stated their opposition, so I suspect this result is far more to do with other political issues, which it would be against the forum rules to discuss.  

It sounds like all the candidates were playing to the crowd!

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1 hour ago, Bernard Lamb said:

The problem is that to them it is "real".

The idea of trains having to run faster than current trains do because it means having to build a smaller number of trains is totally beyond their comprehension. As is the point of HS2 having any connection with capacity problems on the WCML. I accept that there is a general protest vote, but if you live near the area you will soon see just how strong the anti HS2 feeling actually is. I have mixed feelings about the result, as irrespective of political views the government getting a kick up the backside must make them consider issues that they would otherwise ignore. 

 

 

There seem to be 2 views:

 

Those who do not understand that the WCML does not have infinite capacity & there is a limit to how long you can make trains & stations, especially when you have trapped them by surrounding buildings, which is the case with Birmingham New Street, the busiest outside of London.

 

Those who accept something needs to be done...but not near them. In other words, it should be someone else's problem.

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1 hour ago, GoingUnderground said:

......They don't call it "Metroland" for nothing.

 

Maybe, these days it should be renamed, "NIMBY land" ?

 

(p.s. To be honest I'm being hypocritical, because if lived there, I probably would feel the same about all the development and change that's heading their way).

 

 

 

.

.

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Everywhere is NIMBYland. No one wants anything new near them unless there's something in it for them personally. I put it down to the emphasis on self and individual rights away from community, society and personal responsibility for the last 40+ years.

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Amersham has always been diferent to most of the settlements in the Chilterns ,housing in general is of a higher class than most.people are usually employed in the city .The attitude to the usual housing developments seen elswhere is one of not here put them in Slough etc.They are not being troubled by HS2 construction we in Wendover Aylesbury Waddesdon are seeing actual work carried out and the vast majority of us are not that bothered. We have protesters but the majority come from out of our area and have no idea as to what we think.  Youcan clearly see route going north when you cross the Oxford Rd outside of town plus  works to the north are happening very quickly so we should see viaduct work soon.Oh and by the way the new mp in Amersham wont be there long as the constituents will very quickly fall out of love with her polotics.

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47 minutes ago, GoingUnderground said:

Everywhere is NIMBYland. No one wants anything new near them unless there's something in it for them personally. I put it down to the emphasis on self and individual rights away from community, society and personal responsibility for the last 40+ years.

I disagree, this has gone on as long as there has been major construction projects.  How many major landowners had to be "bought off" 150 years ago to allow the new railways across their land? 

 

The general public didn't support these things "for the good of society", I think it's more that until perhaps less than 100 years ago (remember it's only that long that any women have been allowed to vote), they had no voice at all.  There were probably hundreds of people who objected to a viaduct being built across their streets, but their objection was reported on p17, about half way down column 6, in the local gazette, if at all.  Even if they did object, who to?  Their landlords (because very few people owned their own property) probably just evicted their tenants and pocketed the railway company's compensation.

 

The idea of this glorious former era of a society where we all selflessly did things for each other and that we don't now, is a myth.  Read about the growth in petty crime during WW2, "when we all stood together".  Look at the amount of voluntary good works being done over the last year in the UK.  Is this evidence of a selfish society?

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5 hours ago, Northmoor said:

I disagree, this has gone on as long as there has been major construction projects.  How many major landowners had to be "bought off" 150 years ago to allow the new railways across their land? 

 

The general public didn't support these things "for the good of society", I think it's more that until perhaps less than 100 years ago (remember it's only that long that any women have been allowed to vote), they had no voice at all.  There were probably hundreds of people who objected to a viaduct being built across their streets, but their objection was reported on p17, about half way down column 6, in the local gazette, if at all.  Even if they did object, who to?  Their landlords (because very few people owned their own property) probably just evicted their tenants and pocketed the railway company's compensation.

 

The idea of this glorious former era of a society where we all selflessly did things for each other and that we don't now, is a myth.  Read about the growth in petty crime during WW2, "when we all stood together".  Look at the amount of voluntary good works being done over the last year in the UK.  Is this evidence of a selfish society?

Some landowners were bought off whereas others encouraged the lines and some even had stations named after them.

 

I wasn't trying to paint any sort of "golden past". Life was pretty harsh for many and still is for some. There will always be crooks around and in WW2 they took advantage of the situation. When people were being killed and maimed, on and off the battlefields and being bombed out of their homes, indulging in a bit of petty crime must have seemed pretty trivial in comparison, especially as the chances of being caught must have been lower with so much effort devoted to the war.

 

But the more you have the more you are prepared to fight to hang on to it. And an awful lot of us have undoubtedly become much more affluent than our parents' generation. And more people do put themselves and their "rights" before the rights of others as demonstrated by the increased incidence of doctors, nurses, shopworkers, and other essential workers receiving totally unjustified verbal and physical abuse, so much so that in many places there are now signs warning that abuse of staff will not be tolerated.

 

Yes, there have been voluntary good works in the last year, but we are going through an experience that is unique for us all which as yet doesn't seem to me to have changed the overall direction of travel in people's attitudes.

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On 18/06/2021 at 12:36, GoingUnderground said:

And ironic that they're voting against HS2 when many of the older houses in the area probably only exist because of the Metropolitan Railway which made commuting to London possible from Amersham and Chesham. They don't call it "Metroland" for nothing.

Best quote I heard on Sky news was something along the lines of “we don’t want to be another London suburb”.

Tell the London Underground !

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3 minutes ago, ess1uk said:

Best quote I heard on Sky news was something along the lines of “we don’t want to be another London suburb”.

Tell the London Underground !

They're 130 years too late to worry about that. The Metropolitan reached Chesham in 1889 and Amersham in 1892. The Weller Estate around Amersham station was developed by the Metropolitan itself through "The Metropolitan Railway Country Estates Ltd, Baker Street Station, N.W.1.

 

 To quote the 1932 (and final) edition of "Metroland" on the estates in development by the company:

"Weller Estate Amersham, of some 78 acres, adjacent to Amersham Station on both sides of the Railway. Beautifully wooded sites over 450 feet above sea level, fronting County and Public Roads, are now available from £4 to £5 10s 0d per foot frontage. Other roads in course of construction where House and Shop Sites can now be secured. detached and Semi-detached Houses ready for occupation from £875 Freehold."

 

Perhaps they'd feel better about it if TfL reintroduced Pullman cars and Fast (non-stop) services from Moor Park to Baker Street?

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2 hours ago, ess1uk said:

Best quote I heard on Sky news was something along the lines of “we don’t want to be another London suburb”.

Tell the London Underground !

Remember that Metroland is full of Londoners who've moved out to the 'country' and probably think Amersham is some kind of tranquil rural village....

 

2 hours ago, GoingUnderground said:

 To quote the 1932 (and final) edition of "Metroland" on the estates in development by the company:

"Weller Estate Amersham, of some 78 acres, adjacent to Amersham Station on both sides of the Railway. Beautifully wooded sites over 450 feet above sea level, fronting County and Public Roads, are now available from £4 to £5 10s 0d per foot frontage. Other roads in course of construction where House and Shop Sites can now be secured. detached and Semi-detached Houses ready for occupation from £875 Freehold."

... and are living in houses (just about) built within living memory and yet oppose any more houses being built. But then there are plenty of examples of people in new build developments who oppose the next new build development because it will block their view of the fields. 

 

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3 hours ago, ess1uk said:

Best quote I heard on Sky news was something along the lines of “we don’t want to be another London suburb”.

Tell the London Underground !

 

One of the reasons they live there is the first place is likely to be because they have a rail service. If not, why did they choose to live there in the first place instead of a village in the middle of nowhere?

Many villages in the country lost their railway years ago because it wasn't being used enough, because not enough people lived there.

You can't have the best of both worlds.

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4 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

.. who oppose the next new build development because it will block their view of the fields. 

 

 

 ... or the guy who moved to a rural village in the Southwest, and bought a house across the road from the church.

 

He has now reported the historic church clock to the Council for exceeding the legal noise limit; the church is consequently required to reduce the decibels of the clock bell !!

 

How to win acceptance in your new community !!

 

CJI.

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From Amersham onwards towards London is a built up area although it has a certain difference to other suburbs thanks to the Met .Chalfont  is a fine example of good building its a pity the style of housing and layout has not been kept going as modern building is now a pack em in mentality with the houses resembling matchboxes.When you listen to people from outside of town here they have a totally different approach to life especially on HS2 its the worst thing to happen they forget that once its built they wont think about it or use it a Land Rover is a much better status symbol.So I expect that the eco groups are already looking for the next project.

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