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On 07/07/2021 at 20:38, pete_mcfarlane said:

Are there two distinct dates here - when they want the trains delivered, and when the line opens to the public? Presumably there will need to be a gap between the two dates to allow trial running. 

 

The court docs referred to the "Opening Date", nothing else.

 

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2 hours ago, JohnH said:

 

Not exactly news, especially as the source they quote is dated February 2020! The issue is that the Integrated Rail Plan (which drives all of this) should have been published by the end of 2020. Instead, it would appear that we will have to wait until the end of 2021, and for a further hybrid bill in 2022. 

 

Covid may be to blame, but I did not see Mr Shapps taking any significant time off. It suggests a Treasury involvement, which is never a great sign. The pessimism in the article may be well founded, but most definitely not well researched......or written.

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1 hour ago, Mike Storey said:

 

Covid may be to blame, but I did not see Mr Shapps taking any significant time off. 

 

He may not have had significant time off, but clearly attention has been elsewhere in the last year or so.

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On 08/07/2021 at 06:18, jamie92208 said:

That was about a year for the new TGV line near me and that was using proven existing trains.

 

Jamie

Not too much of a problem in France where TGV rolling stock has been around for decades and is readily available, subject to operating requirements for testing new LGV lines.

 

In the UK there are the Class 395 Javelin units but aren't their top speeds a bit below that designed top speed for HS2? The e320 Eurostar Velaro Class 374 units might do, but I would imagine that Eurostar might have something to say about that, or rent in French or German high speed sets for testing.

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20 minutes ago, GoingUnderground said:

.........In the UK there are the Class 395 Javelin units but aren't their top speeds a bit below that designed top speed for HS2? The e320 Eurostar Velaro Class 374 units might do, but I would imagine that Eurostar might have something to say about that, or rent in French or German high speed sets for testing.

 

There might be complicating factors in using European standard HS trains on HS2.

Although built to UIC GC gauge standards, I believe the platform heights are going to be at a bespoke height to allow for step free access and so that the "classic compatible" fleet can be designed for both HS2 and the "classic" NR network.

 

In any case, how do you get UIC gauge stock onto HS2, unless transported there by road?

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

There might be complicating factors in using European standard HS trains on HS2.

Although built to UIC GC gauge standards, I believe the platform heights are going to be at a bespoke height to allow for step free access and so that the "classic compatible" fleet can be designed for both HS2 and the "classic" NR network.

 

In any case, how do you get UIC gauge stock onto HS2, unless transported there by road?.

So what's the objection to getting it there by road? But if as you say it is only UIC gauge in theory then they'll have to wait until the HS2 rolling stock is done and dusted. There may even be a chicken and egg situation, unable to test the new rolling stock without first testing the infrastructure, but unable to test the infrastructure as there is no suitable rolling stock. 

 

I don't know if there are any of the Eurostar Class 373 sets left in running order either here or on the Continent. as they were the only high speed sets ever built to UK loading gauge.

Edited by GoingUnderground
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3 hours ago, GoingUnderground said:

There may even be a chicken and egg situation, unable to test the new rolling stock without first testing the infrastructure, but unable to test the infrastructure as there is no suitable rolling stock.

It'll be possible to do some testing with different trains to prove the infrastructure up to a point. Even if it's the HS2 trains they won't be going maximum beans to start with.

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14 hours ago, GoingUnderground said:

So what's the objection to getting it there by road? But if as you say it is only UIC gauge in theory then they'll have to wait until the HS2 rolling stock is done and dusted. There may even be a chicken and egg situation, unable to test the new rolling stock without first testing the infrastructure, but unable to test the infrastructure as there is no suitable rolling stock. 

 

I don't know if there are any of the Eurostar Class 373 sets left in running order either here or on the Continent. as they were the only high speed sets ever built to UK loading gauge.

 

I doubt there will be a chicken and egg situation.  Before you contemplate running at very high speeds you need to be satisfied that all the systems on the line are functioning correctly - stuff like the ETCS.  You can do that (and indeed would be well advised to do it) at relatively low speeds to start with and you don't need the new trains for that.  We will probably see one or more suitably equipped conventional emus (along the lines of 313121) employed in testing the line to start with.  Once you've satisfied yourself that the equipment on the line is working properly you can start to think about testing the new trains.  You then basically start again with low speed testing only this time you are testing that the equipment on the new trains is functioning correctly with the equipment on the line.  Once you're satisfied it is then you can start to think about high speed running.

 

And yes there are still serviceable 373s in the Eurostar fleet.  I don't think they've been out much during Covid but I saw a report that one went to Brussels and back last week.

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They can test with a train once they have a piece of track that's complete enough and long enough to get it up to whatever speed they need.  I imagine that will happen when other parts of the route are far from complete, possibly basing the train at one of the construction depots if Washwood Heath is incomplete or inaccessible.  These tests can be quite detailed and over a longer period to prove all the systems, after which other sections will just need a shorter programme of tests to confirm that the results from the previous ones also apply there.  

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16 hours ago, GoingUnderground said:

So what's the objection to getting it there by road? But if as you say it is only UIC gauge in theory then they'll have to wait until the HS2 rolling stock is done and dusted. There may even be a chicken and egg situation, unable to test the new rolling stock without first testing the infrastructure, but unable to test the infrastructure as there is no suitable rolling stock. 

 

I don't know if there are any of the Eurostar Class 373 sets left in running order either here or on the Continent. as they were the only high speed sets ever built to UK loading gauge.

11 full sets plus a spare power car in service with Eurostar, plus some in storage, according to Wiki. The rest scrapped or plinthed.

There is/was one on hire to Thalys (IZY) but that is in storage.

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Meanwhile......

 

At the Chilterns Tunnel.

As of yesterday (9th July), the HS2 interactive map is now showing that...

Florence has progressed over half a km (510m) into its dig.

Cecilia is only 30m in, but should start moving faster over the next week.

 

 

 

1625848950045-png.1751412

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, jamie92208 said:

No sign of the narrow gauge supply railway in the photo of what I presume is Florence.  Maybe that's why things are going slowly.

 

Jamie

 

 

 

I think I read somewhere, that they're using electrically powered loaders to transport the tunnel segments into the tunnels.

The spoil is coming out as slurry.

One set of pipes is the water supply. The other set, the slurry removal system pipes.

 

 

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On 10/07/2021 at 12:57, jamie92208 said:

No sign of the narrow gauge supply railway in the photo of what I presume is Florence. .........

 

On 10/07/2021 at 14:10, Ron Ron Ron said:

I think I read somewhere, that they're using electrically powered loaders to transport the tunnel segments into the tunnels.......

 

A photo of one of the electrically powered shuttle transporters, used to transport tunnel segments and materials in the tunnels......

 

hs2-08-1536x853.jpg.webp

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Chilterns Tunnel - the Chalfont St. Peter vent shaft

And they’re making the vent look like a barn, according to the graphics here:

https://mediacentre.hs2.org.uk/resources/view-5-y-15-new

 

Edited by eastwestdivide
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The Colne Valley viaduct will cross these lakes  (the London skyline can be seen in the distance).......

 

(### note: the photos should be "clickable" to increase their size)

 

158-21_07-01-Colne-valley-viaduct-lookin

 

 

The line will then enter a cutting as it reaches the west side of the Colne Valley, arriving at the Chilterns Tunnels east portal site.....

 

143-21_07-02-South-tunnel-portal-looking.

 

 

 

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Edited by Ron Ron Ron
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To judge the scale of the temporary factory buildings, that are being used at the Chilterns Tunnels east portal, just look at the cement mixer lorry in front of the large building in the centre of the photo......

 

(### note: the photos should be "clickable" to increase their size)

 

 

 

146-21_07-05-South-tunnel-portal-looking

 

147-21_07-06-South-tunnel-portal-looking

 

 

148-21_07-04-South-tunnel-portal-looking

 

 

 

 

 

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