HS2

[corneliuslundie]

Not really comparable I know, but I was just musing, while looking at the aerial views of the sites on the video, that one travels from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth by train without passing through any tunnels whereas the much less demanding Chilterns will be penetrated by miles of tunnelling. They should have hired David Davies!

Jonathan

[DK123GWR]

11 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

Not really comparable I know, but I was just musing, while looking at the aerial views of the sites on the video, that one travels from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth by train without passing through any tunnels whereas the much less demanding Chilterns will be penetrated by miles of tunnelling. They should have hired David Davies!

Jonathan

I searched for David Davies, and here, in order, are the people I found.

I don't think this man's going to be much help:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_T._C._Davies

Wrong field of engineering?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Davies_(electrical_engineer)

Probably more useful than the first search result:

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/david-davies-911603b7

This one would have been best. Unfortunately, he's impossible to find online - and might be dead:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-history-month-talerddig-cutting-2047327

[APOLLO]

9 hours ago, melmerby said:

Shouldn't have been done in the first place.

 

 Bahh - Humbug !!!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

[corneliuslundie]

Unfortunately "Davies the Ocean" passed away many years ago, though I think one of his descendants is an MP. And the Davies Gallery in Newtown is named after his granddaughters.

At least they didn't employ Thomas Savin ("the Oswestry draper") or HS2 would have been in the hands of the receivers by now. But he is also no longer with us.

But back on topic, it is nice to see progress on the ground (and under it).

Jonathan

[RJS1977]

Try doing 200mph through mid-Wales, though!

[jamie92208]

The latest plans for NPR show at least two long tunnels. IIRC one long one under the Pennines and another one under a lot of Bradford. Geopgraphy is fixed. 

 

Jamie

[Fat Controller]

3 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

Not really comparable I know, but I was just musing, while looking at the aerial views of the sites on the video, that one travels from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth by train without passing through any tunnels whereas the much less demanding Chilterns will be penetrated by miles of tunnelling. They should have hired David Davies!

Jonathan

There's no engineering need for most of the tunnels on HS2, I believe; most was done to appease 'local' residents, concerned about noise issues. 

[62613]

31 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

There's no engineering need for most of the tunnels on HS2, I believe; most was done to appease 'local' residents, concerned about noise issues. 

Or just keeping trains out of sight; which has happened since railways were first built. With the same cost increases

 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Fat Controller said:

There's no engineering need for most of the tunnels on HS2, I believe; most was done to appease 'local' residents, concerned about noise issues. 

That's why, as has recently been mentioned, TGV lines generally go over hills rather than through them.

These same residents don't seem as concerned about thousands of HGVs thundering around the UK.

 

 

 

[lmsforever]

No tunnells through the chilterns  there would have some deep cuttings and more destruction of the inviroment also there are to many settlements to cope with.To the north its not so populated but still a problem for the designers not like the early days when a railway could take the shortest route and people did not count as much as they do now.The pennine sections are going to be interesting and hopefully will feature some inovative engineering .My nieghbour said that next year will see the realconstruction starting as prep work will be finnished ,I am looking forward to the viaduct around the back od where I live as the pics look good.

[Mark Saunders]

3 minutes ago, melmerby said:

That's why, as has recently been mentioned, TGV lines generally go over hills rather than through them.

These same residents don't seem as concerned about thousands of HGVs thundering around the UK.

 

 

 

They are the Can’t See Don’t Care people! 
 

If it happens somewhere else it’s someone else’s problem!

[corneliuslundie]

Sorry, I am afraid that my rather tongue in cheek comment comparing HS2 and the Cambrian main line has sparked a rerun of old, old arguments.

Let's get back to what is happening on (and under) the ground.

Jonathan

[caradoc]

14 hours ago, APOLLO said:

And now we build it again.

 

Not really; The reasons the GCR London extension route is largely useless for HS2 have been said many times over. 

 

14 hours ago, melmerby said:

Shouldn't have been done in the first place.

 

Agree 100%; Every single place of significance served already had, and still does have, a perfectly adequate main line railway. 

 

[SamThomas]

2 hours ago, melmerby said:

That's why, as has recently been mentioned, TGV lines generally go over hills rather than through them.

These same residents don't seem as concerned about thousands of HGVs thundering around the UK.

 

 

 

HGV's have not "thundered" for a number of years - they only tend to make an obtrusive noise when they are running over poor surfaces (& a high proportion of them thesedays are air suspended & more road friendly).

 

You appear to be a little "anti HGV", so in that case I respectfully suggest you stop buying anything produced outside of your district.

[melmerby]

2 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

 

 

You appear to be a little "anti HGV", so in that case I respectfully suggest you stop buying anything produced outside of your district.

Exactly how do you come to that conclusion?

You seem to be reading into statements meanings that are not there.

 

Remember " If you bought it, a truck brought it"

 

[APOLLO]

21 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

The latest plans for NPR show at least two long tunnels. IIRC one long one under the Pennines and another one under a lot of Bradford. Geopgraphy is fixed. 

 

Jamie

 

We had a new one of these too, and it was electrified !!! - Was this not necessary too ?

 

 

 

I despair with our politicians - ALL of them.

 

Brit15

 

[billbedford]

The cost of building those original tunnels was the millstone that prevented the MS&L, GCT and later LNER from ever being profitable. 

[Edwin_m]

1 hour ago, APOLLO said:

 

We had a new one of these too, and it was electrified !!! - Was this not necessary too ?

 

 

 

I despair with our politicians - ALL of them.

 

Brit15

 

It's in the wrong place for Manchester-Leeds.  Even when HS2 was routed just east of Barnsley and a HS service from Manchester might have used it from there to Leeds, it would have been slower between Manchester and Leeds than the existing route.  

 

It's also in the wrong place for Manchester-Sheffield, because there's no easy way of bringing it close to the Sheffield city centre than Victoria, which isn't central at all and arguably less well connected than the original HS2 proposal of Meadowhall.  Unless you're prepared to demolish large parts of said city centre...  

[SamThomas]

On 26/09/2021 at 16:05, melmerby said:

Exactly how do you come to that conclusion?

 

Your comment regarding "thundering".

[lmsforever]

On 26/09/2021 at 15:56, SamThomas said:

HGV's have not "thundered" for a number of years - they only tend to make an obtrusive noise when they are running over poor surfaces (& a high proportion of them thesedays are air suspended & more road friendly).

 

You appear to be a little "anti HGV", so in that case I respectfully suggest you stop buying anything produced outside of your district.

But they smash the roads by constant usage.

[lmsforever]

I thought that I read in modern Railwaythrough Woodhead but cannot remember details/s a tentative plan to put the tracks back. 

[62613]

National Grid transferred their 275kV cables from the single line tunnels ( which were in a bad way in 1948) to the new tunnel a few years back.

[jamie92208]

1 hour ago, lmsforever said:

I thought that I read in modern Railwaythrough Woodhead but cannot remember details/s a tentative plan to put the tracks back. 

I believe that there was a plan gor a longer tunnel in that area at one time, inckuding IIRC a road tunnel. But there have been many changes of plan since then and we are still waiting for a definitive announcement.

 

Jamie

[RJS1977]

12 hours ago, APOLLO said:

 

We had a new one of these too, and it was electrified !!! - Was this not necessary too ?

 

 

Actually I think the fact it was electrified was one of the reasons that led to its closure, as it was on a completely non-standard system!

[Grovenor]

1 hour ago, RJS1977 said:

 

Actually I think the fact it was electrified was one of the reasons that led to its closure, as it was on a completely non-standard system!

It was the nationally agreed standard when it was designed and built!

(And converting it would not have been especially difficult, it was done as far as Glossop and Hadfield, but most of its traffic disappeared).