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On 05/05/2020 at 13:06, JeffP said:

Ah, yes. What my dad always called "the vociferous minority".

 

Sadly, we now attach far too much credence to anyone who can shout loudly. You only have to look at that lunatic outside parliament with the megaphone.

 

One of life's simple pleasures is walking down Whitehall and past Parliament to observe the protestors. My favourite was a fellow with some splendid placards about the evils of plastics enjoying a drink of bottled water, the bottle of course being plastic.

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3 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

 

One of life's simple pleasures is walking down Whitehall and past Parliament to observe the protestors. My favourite was a fellow with some splendid placards about the evils of plastics enjoying a drink of bottled water, the bottle of course being plastic.

I used to enjoy doing that walk at lunchtime when I worked nearby.  As for the protesters, no matter how single-issue and vocal they are, long may they continue.  It's a small price to pay for democracy and freedom of speech.  The important thing is to be able to scrutinise the cacophony of voices and to arrive at an informed opinion, preferably starting from a position where you are prepared to admit you may be wrong.  It is a weakness of our politicians that they are almost never prepared to do this, but we don't help them by attacking them through the media when they do.

 

How does this relate to HS2?  Well I'm happy to admit I have had my view changed from negative to positive, by balancing some of the well-informed comment on this thread against some spectacularly knee-jerk and "object on principle" pressure groups.  I still want it to be built properly though, obeying construction and property law at every stage.

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HS2 preliminary site prep work, to the immediate west of West Ruislip station.

Taken from YouTube.

The camera drone appears to be hovering above the golf course, NW of the station, alongside the Chiltern Line.

West Ruislip station is just beyond the road bridge that comes into view as the camera pans around from east, through south, to west.

The large open space in the distance, just above West Ruislip, is RAF Northolt.

The camera then continues to pan around looking to the south and then west, towards the Chilterns.

 

 

 

 

 

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Old Oak Common site clearance completed, apart from the closure and demolition of the HEX depot and the removal of all that depot's associated track work and sidings.

 

Looking westwards.

The Hitachi North Pole IET depot on the left.

HEX depot top centre.

Crossrail depot and storage sidings to the right.

 

 

 

EXz8-aFWkAAvctR?format=jpg&name=4096x409

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On 15/04/2020 at 10:53, black and decker boy said:

A major milestone has now passed, sympathies to Packham, StopHS2,  LMSForever and others on here against the new line as it’s game over.

 

construction contracts have been signed for phase 1 so the final design and start of main construction is now underway. £12bn.

 

https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2020/04/15/hs2-signs-off-four-main-civils-contracts-worth-12bn/

Hold your horses,  there is still plenty in the pipeline to curtail HS2.  Nigel Lawson (ex Chancellor of the Exchequer)  was on the  television the other week saying that due to the Cov-virus, the country can no longer afford to build HS2,  and the other effect, companies are seeing that the technology for remote working is so  capable, why do we need people to travel to work to occupy an office?

There goes the problem of under capacity of the WCML at the London end.  time for another review of HS2  by the xperts I think!

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26 minutes ago, Pandora said:

Hold your horses,  there is still plenty in the pipeline to curtail HS2.  Nigel Lawson (ex Chancellor of the Exchequer)  was on the  television the other week saying that due to the Cov-virus, the country can no longer afford to build HS2, 

 

Everybody and their pet cat are currently on TV or various forums on the net proclaiming all sorts of things are "now going to be different" and "this changes everything" and all sorts of other nonsense to try and make people believe their pet cause is now going to be all important - safe to assume talking heads of former government officials can be included in the list.

 

26 minutes ago, Pandora said:

and the other effect, companies are seeing that the technology for remote working is so  capable, why do we need people to travel to work to occupy an office?

 

Really?  The consensus, such as it is, seems to be that a) people can't wait for their kids to be back in school and b) they can't wait to get back to the office (once it is safe to do so).

 

This experiment is demonstrating a number of things, including couples being in the same house 24h/day isn't good for a lot of  marriages, online meetings are terrible and that most peoples accommodation is ill suited to working from home.  As a result most people are saying their productivity is down, which can't be making those companies very happy.

 

Like most things work from home works for some people but not for others, for some businesses and not others.

 

26 minutes ago, Pandora said:

There goes the problem of under capacity of the WCML at the London end.  time for another review of HS2  by the xperts I think!

 

Yep, yet another round of external consultancy companies gobbling down taxpayer money to tell a government what it has already decided is exactly what a "broke" country can afford.

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Those against HS2 will grasp at any straw in defence of their belief that HS2 is unnecessary. We don't know for sure what the long term effects of the current virus epidemic will be, but if you look at SARS as an example, it doesn't take long for the situation to recover. In terms of the time needed to complete major infrastructure projects, the virus will (I think and hope) be a transitory thing.

 

The government now can borrow money at hitherto unbelievably low interest rates. It is doing so to pay the wages of those who would otherwise be unemployed. At the end of this it will have protected the lives of people who would otherwise have been very badly affected (and in the process probably secured a few votes) but this will be forgotten. If you borrow money for infrastructure investment - HS2, HS3, rail electrification, road improvements, Satellite positioning system, fibre networks, power supply strengthening etc you have a resource that will make money for decades. I don't buy the argument that because of COVID 19 we can no longer afford investment. On the contrary we need such projects to get people back to work.

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5 hours ago, Pandora said:

Hold your horses,  there is still plenty in the pipeline to curtail HS2.  Nigel Lawson (ex Chancellor of the Exchequer)  was on the  television the other week saying that due to the Cov-virus, the country can no longer afford to build HS2,  and the other effect, companies are seeing that the technology for remote working is so  capable, why do we need people to travel to work to occupy an office?

There goes the problem of under capacity of the WCML at the London end.  time for another review of HS2  by the xperts I think!

Sorry. Phase 1 contracts now signed and work underway. Much £££ needed to buy those contracts out and reinstate land. 9000 jobs directly employed on HS2 by end of this year.

 

taking your example (and those of antis interviewed on local news here in the Chilterns), we should not have built any new roads after the 70s fuel crisis as all the evidence was that no one could afford the fuel to run cars.

 

who could have predicted the massive rise in car ownership through the 80s & 90s

 

HS2 Phase 1 costs peanuts in terms of annual expenditure and will be opening to traffic in around 6 to 8 years time. All recessions reduce traffic & travel which always rebounds. Mobility is a key to wider prosperity and economic growth.

 

luckily for us, the current government don’t clutch at straws and signed the contracts. Job done.

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Government debt is building so it could trigger cuts in the future but who knows what the future will hold when some semblance of normality returns. A word to Pandora its going to happen when who knows but happen it will I am still not in favour of the line but you cant fight an act of parliament.

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10 hours ago, mdvle said:

This experiment is demonstrating a number of things, including couples being in the same house 24h/day isn't good for a lot of  marriages, online meetings are terrible and that most peoples accommodation is ill suited to working from home.  As a result most people are saying their productivity is down, which can't be making those companies very happy.

 

Like most things work from home works for some people but not for others, for some businesses and not others.

 

My son is currently working from home, using a spare (formerly his sister's) bedroom. As a result we have a cable draped from our internet box up the stairs, and while he is working, because he deals with customer queries and complaints (therefore confidential information) the whole of upstairs, and the loft with my layout, are out of bounds. Just about acceptable on a temporary basis but permanently, no way; And although he is saving on train fares and travelling time, he is missing the social interaction at work. So the sooner he gets back into the office, the better !

 

(Plus I'm still waiting for a contribution from his employer to my utility bills)

 

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Personally I'm finding that home working is going pretty well now, after a bit of time getting used to it. I wouldn't want to go back to the office every day, and hopefully will be able to negotiate that.

But I'm fortunate that I'm able to do that and that I have suitable accommodation, many either can't do their jobs without going to the office every day, or don't have a suitable environment.

I wouldn't be surprised to see travel patterns change after this, but I doubt it's going to permanently drop to such a level that suddenly the WCML is awash with spare capacity.

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Posted (edited)

HS2 to Birmingham is a cert. Too much money spent already, best to crack on.

 

North of Birmingham ? - Perhaps not - depends on what the "new normal" will be. Far too early to say. I want it all built - quickly too.

 

Heard of Vientiane - Capital of  Laos ? - THEY have a brand new HS line opens later this year (Chinese built of course) - will continue down into Thailand also.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@18.0166674,102.6638723,14395m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

Station site in centre of map - Don Noun. Follow the line left - most track laid & masts are up - some impressive civil engineering along the route - Great Crested newts ? - They're in the pot for dinner !!!!!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

Edited by APOLLO
typo
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Reading some of the stuff on this page in particular, you would come away thinking that railways are only used for commuting, and business journeys. If my experience of the 0845 - ish Stoke - Euston via every station down the Trent Valley one Saturday morning a couple of years ago is anything to go by, it isn't!

 

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Work is happening at the rear of my estate and going on at night (expensive)  hedges trees being torn up by fairly large machinery and at tunnel mouth site in Missenenon getting really busy,Thank you for the mention Black and Decker nice to know I am remebered still dont like the project but will post if I see anything interesting.

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Foundation work for the HS2 bridge over the M42, not far from the NEC and the planned  Birmingham Interchange station.

 

 

88217561_3070350486349313_92169687860772

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4 hours ago, 62613 said:

Reading some of the stuff on this page in particular, you would come away thinking that railways are only used for commuting, and business journeys. If my experience of the 0845 - ish Stoke - Euston via every station down the Trent Valley one Saturday morning a couple of years ago is anything to go by, it isn't!

 

 

Weekend leisure travel doesn't pay the bills, and wouldn't justify the capital costs of building a line like HS2.

 

Is it nice additional money?  Yes.

 

But the M-F business travel is what drives most transportation infrastructure investment.

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On 19/05/2020 at 03:07, mdvle said:

Everybody and their pet cat are currently on TV or various forums on the net proclaiming all sorts of things are "now going to be different" and "this changes everything" and all sorts of other nonsense to try and make people believe their pet cause is now going to be all important - safe to assume talking heads of former government officials can be included in the list.

 

Really?  The consensus, such as it is, seems to be that a) people can't wait for their kids to be back in school and b) they can't wait to get back to the office (once it is safe to do so).

 

This experiment is demonstrating a number of things, including couples being in the same house 24h/day isn't good for a lot of  marriages, online meetings are terrible and that most peoples accommodation is ill suited to working from home.  As a result most people are saying their productivity is down, which can't be making those companies very happy.

 

Like most things work from home works for some people but not for others, for some businesses and not others.

 

Yep, yet another round of external consultancy companies gobbling down taxpayer money to tell a government what it has already decided is exactly what a "broke" country can afford.

 

I wish there was a Round of Applause button as Agree doesn't cut it.  I am working from home but my home layout (and having three other family members around) doesn't really suit home working.  I can see in future I could arrange my schedule to work one day/week from home (or like some, work compressed hours in four days) on some routine stuff, but a lot of my job requires me to go and see people, equipment and discuss them.  I will want to be back in the office; if nothing else my home is my home, not somewhere my employer has a call on my time.

 

Your first paragraph really strikes a chord; so many of the newspaper/on-line articles are written by journalists who work from home already, they just aren't travelling around as much.  The productivity issue will really hit after 6-12 months; at the moment lots of organisations are congratulating themselves on how much they are still doing, but I suspect like my employer, although they have quickly adapted their reporting to remote meetings, the progress being reported in those meetings is a great deal less than would have been expected in January.

 

Yes, some will work from home more in future, but of all the regular commuters, I don't see the armed services, emergency services, retail shop staff, manufacturing and construction workers, transport workers all working from home.  A lot of the finance industry won't allow their people to access personal financial information on their kitchen table, where anyone could be looking over their shoulder ......  Likewise any number of consultants and commercial sales staff won't give up meeting customers face-to-face, especially when they see their competitors winning business by doing it again.

 

Here's a fag packet calculation of the impact on HS2.  Subtract all the groups above from the overall workforce and assume the remainder - probably about 50% - are working from home one day per week and don't need to travel.  That's reduced the number of journeys by 10%; so from what I've read of traffic predictions, that only defers the requirement for HS2 by about five years.  

 

 

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8 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

Weekend leisure travel doesn't pay the bills, and wouldn't justify the capital costs of building a line like HS2.

 

Is it nice additional money?  Yes.

 

But the M-F business travel is what drives most transportation infrastructure investment.

 

Agreed.

Off-peak travel is cheaper in order to spread the load.

It can cost more than double to travel in peak hours, depending on exactly which services you choose to compare.

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On 19/05/2020 at 21:06, caradoc said:

 

(Plus I'm still waiting for a contribution from his employer to my utility bills)

 

 

My son is also working from home: 10kWh per day extra energy consumed.

 

Guess who's paying for it?

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