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A Dapol LMS "Brake from the Dead" AND LMS Stanier reverse attempt.


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1 minute ago, Gordon A said:

Why have you removed the end roof support?

Good question Gordon!! They are really fragile and this one was already snapped. Also, it over hangs by about a mil and attempting to scrape back would be impossible. I intend scratchbuilding the centre strut and roof profile then laminating the entire face with scribed planks.

 

Still hacking the veranda sides at the mo but am getting somewhere I think. 

20201024_093733.jpg.d2d0ae147da5aeb0fc82e6d52b4d2549.jpg

 

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14 hours ago, westernviscount said:

 

Any advice and suggestions are more than welcome. I don't have drawings of the vehicle but assume at this early stage that the doorways are equally as wide. Do we feel this is the case? 

 

 

According to a drawing in "The LMS Wagon" the openings were 2' 8" wide.

 

The duckets fitted to D1890 brakes were 6" wide as opposed to the later diagrams which in the main had wider 9" types fitted. It would appear that these were swapped out with the wider type so you wouldn't be wrong to keep then existing ones.

 

A minority of these brakes also received the "V" shaped strapping to the body sides (fitted to provide extra strength) should you wish to bring a little individuality to you project.

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4 minutes ago, westernviscount said:

 

I took the centre strut measurement from my Cambrian shark which I have assumed were near enough the same as these vans. 

 

 

The vertical strut should be central to the body width and measures 3" according to the drawing quoted earlier.

 

If you're doing the alterations to match the existing body work dimensions then it looks fine but if not then it would appear to be too tall (because the uppermost body side member is too wide then you've had to match the bottom edge of the opening to this) whereas in reality this should be a lot slimmer.

 

You may already know this but on these vehicles the ends were planked rather than the metal sheet style.

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2 minutes ago, SP Steve said:

 

The vertical strut should be central to the body width and measures 3" according to the drawing quoted earlier.

 

If you're doing the alterations to match the existing body work dimensions then it looks fine but if not then it would appear to be too tall (because the uppermost body side member is too wide then you've had to match the bottom edge of the opening to this) whereas in reality this should be a lot slimmer.

 

You may already know this but on these vehicles the ends were planked rather than the metal sheet style.

 

Thanks Steve. Keep it coming! I have attempted to match what I have made to the existing moulding which is a compromise yes. Although yes I do know the ends were planked, dont assume I know anymore!!!

 

Would you happen to know of any pics of the vans with diagonal bracing?

 

Many thanks

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29 minutes ago, westernviscount said:

 

Would you happen to know of any pics of the vans with diagonal bracing?

 

 

There's an undated image of M296163 looking side on in "The LMS Wagon" (although at this time it has been put into departmental use as DM296163 being used as a ballast train brake by the King's Cross District engineer).

 

Another two images appear in Volume one of Dave Larkin's "Acquired Wagons Of British Railways"; one showing the same vehicle as above (but in everyday traffic at Chard Junction in 1963) and the other M296386 on withdrawal at Lostock Hall in 1968 (this same image appears in Cheona Publications Vol 5 "Railways in Profile - Cattle & Brake Vans" by Geoff Gamble).

 

Another vehicle so treated is shown in Volume one of "An Illustrated History of LMS Wagons" by Bob Essery which depicts M296412 withdrawn at Kettering in 1965.

 

The last image I'm aware of features M296692 in an undated view which appears in "Pre-Nationalisation Freight Wagons On British Railways" by David Larkin, published by Bradford Barton.

Edited by SP Steve
Extra reference added
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13 minutes ago, SP Steve said:

The last image I'm aware of features M296692 in an undated view which appears in "Pre-Nationalisation Freight Wagons On British Railways" by David Larkin, published by Bradford Barton.

Now it just so happens I have my Dads copy of this on long term loan so will dig it out!! I cant believe I forgot I had this. 

 

I am modelling 1970ish and intend to include it in my engineers stock. 

 

Many thanks again!!

Edited by westernviscount
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4 hours ago, SP Steve said:

 

According to a drawing in "The LMS Wagon" the openings were 2' 8" wide.

 

As luck would have it I believe by simply reversing the sides the apertures are pretty much spot on. If my conversion from 2ft 8in to scale is correct then tge gap should be 10.7mm wide...which it is!!! My lucky day. Lotto tonight. 

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Onward! More sanding of the veranda ends here. 20201024_181320.jpg.d2063dba35bc27bea6333db2d4a9df3e.jpg

A view of the side. New beadng around the ducket, more "metal' trims added wherever i see them. I also intend to add the strengthening plates in corners.  

20201024_181328.jpg.827a4612d1f7d55a8c1dcfc3b2a63a69.jpg

It seems the screw holes are quote prominent on the prototype so i have drilled some!! 

20201024_181334.jpg.690b96363c02fd5c11c1ad7698202c8d.jpg

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A comparison with the original RTR model here...

20201025_102913.jpg.74b8b28e6cfe6458c705880de57f6959.jpg

I have included some corner braces on the veranda with rivets. More screw hole drilling needs to happen on the body sides and ends. 

I am now weighing up whether to scratch build a reduced size ducket each side as I cannot find any example photos of the larger ducket on these vehicles although @SP Steve suggests they did re-fit them with the larger ones shown here. 

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A bit more progress today folks. The reason this van was rejected for the first revamp was because it was missing the inner cabin door piece. 

 

I took a look at some second hand donors on a well known auction site but felt that defied the object of the project. 

 

So a new piece needed to be made up. Styrene was used, a .5mm backing was built up first, seen here at the rear of the piece. The step will allow glazing to be fitted later.20201027_133445.jpg.bbfd52cd641e444be95bf3e3612a4e14.jpg

 

At the front of the piece, 6 planks made from what I think is .25mm styrene (which is what I have use for most of the other mods) were cemented to the front from the bottom up. This the same method used on the van ends. 20201027_132239.jpg.f3852ae968ad07c6bbe3a50384bf0359.jpg

 

The window section was then made from .25mm styrene and cemented in place. 

 

Additional styrene strips were added around the door and .33mm wire used for a handle.

 

A champhered  lip is also in place at the bottom of the piece.

 

20201027_133502.jpg.725e14526f850ae4a4359152df394204.jpg

 

As the other end door is still present I copied this for consistency but I dk have reference shots from the later brake I took at mangapps a couple of years ago...20181027_133321.jpg.c797a195f71d7ce2f0b91a943b5b1e3e.jpg

 

So here is progress so far. A temporary roof left over from the previous build is in place which will not be used. The chassis has started to have pieces pruned and will require the step to be removed and a longer one put in its place due to the door being re-sited. 

20201027_132204.jpg.4eb4b9e395210d71fff7635807e93136.jpg

Edited by westernviscount
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A tad more progress today. I broke my .4mm drill bit on the second hand rail hole of the evening. For some reason I thought it would be a good idea to start at 10.30pm! No, it wasn't.

 

After ordering a new set of drills online I found a .4mm bit in an old drill set as is the way of things. 

 

Anyway, hand rails are in place and I have also started to fit the L.M.Supplies buffers and hooks. I have used the packers as I have decided to finish it as a vac piped van. 

 

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Edging towards the finish line today structure wise. New foot boards were fitted, formed from .5mm styrene and sanded to shape. Upright vac pipes by Dave Franks fitted. They needed gentle bending to the offset shape. Go too far and they will snap!! Outer end lamp irons were fitted  next. These are made from .25mm styrene as the back plate. The bracket is made from the rungs of an etch ladder, cut out, bent to shape and glued into a .4mm hole. A bit of a cobble together but I am happy with the final look. 

 

I am beginning to spot glaring errors of the "How did I manage to do that?" variety so it is time to finish of, prime and get this sucker done!

20201030_200743.jpg.aaed5f2b99bbd15fcee3a0d1690d91f2.jpg

Parked up next  to the later Stanier van for comparison. 

20201030_200102.jpg.4593046ec0a6fd688af6cc35f19f2143.jpg

A detail shot of the lamp irons. 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
23 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

That is a nice reverse stanier. But why not attempt a correct running number. They weren't in a block but were 28xxxx and 29xxxx. Essery only mentions a single one with vacuum pipe 296406. I managed to also catch a piped version https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbrakevan/e27049f93  DM296702 

 

Paul

Thanks Paul,

 

A valid point and one I only have a weak argument for which is it isn't important to me. However, my knowledge of the prototype wagons is growing thanks to your photos and the books of Don Rowland so I am sure I will go to greater lengths in future projects. 

 

The numbers are as you will have noticed from a BR standard brake van sheet by railtec!! I may still amend before weathering and sealing though. 

 

Thank you again for the info Paul and for havimg the foresight to photograph so many vehicles!!

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