A Dapol LMS "Brake from the Dead" AND LMS Stanier reverse attempt.

[westernviscount]

Hi folks, 

 

I thought I would start a blog over here as opposed to the usual blog area. I enjoy kit building and bashing, weathering and general model making. I have a small layout, Templefield which is based around 1970 in West London Area on western metals. 

 

I recently was given 2 pretty rough Dapol LMS brake vans by my Dad. It seems they have lain dormant for a few years and are missing there roofs. 

 

One is missing an inner end and the other has broken/cracked roof supports at both ends. Both are missing their roofs. With this in mind, one decent brake will be cobbled from two for the time being, with one being stored for now.

 

The model is a decent representation of the prototype however some mods will be needed. These will be:

Wire handrails

flush glazing

ballast box underfloor

Instanter couplings 

new roof

refine the foot board struts

repaint (partial, keeping the current numbers for convenience)

Warning flashes to be added

weathering

 

The vehicles are easily dismantled using a blunt narrow tool like a screwdriver to press the clips out from the floor of the van. The door ends slide upwards and out quite easily. 

The tension lock couplings and mounting blocks are removed with a chisel blade and the plastic hook and plate molding cut away and sanded. 

 

A brand new chisel knife is used to remove the handrail molds. The sharper the blade the cleaner the removal. It was possible to remove the whole handrail flush to the body in one movement. 

I kept the handrail bracket moldings in situ as I didn't think I would create anything finer. 

 

 

The wire is .5mm brass. holes .5mm were drilled, although having done plenty of hand rails before I thought a finer tolerance would be OK. It proved almost impossible for me to get the wire to sit straight as the holes needed to be in absolutely the correct spot and the wire bent up to exact measurements for it not to bend once placed in. Therefore I reverted to my usual hole size of .6mm which allow a little room for error and lets the wire sit true. 

I found myself creating rivets for the headstock and making a plate for the hook. It seemed to just happen!!! I used a plastikard rivet sheet, scraping off rivets and welding them in place with Tamiya solvent. In this view, the thickness of the footboard brackets can be seen clearly. 

The brackets were thinned down with a chisel blade, They are still not fine enough but spending life on a small terminus to fiddle layout, regular handling requires some robustness!

In the box my Dad gave me were some airfix brake van kit roofs. He said he had intended to try and fashion a roof from them. I toyed with the idea of making a plastikard replacement but decided to try splicing two roofs. It just so happened the profiles are pretty much identical. 

The two roofs were scraped clean with a chisel knife and sanded with 240 then 600 grit sand paper then a final 1000 grit. EMA solvent was used which gave a clean join but this was then filled and left to dry. 

 

 

A review of picture of the prototype suggested rain strips were placed in the above formation and the stoke chimney position was copied from another LMS brake I already have. Note the .3mm wire guard rail on the verandas. 

A ballast box was fabricated from plastikard with the bottom edges sanded to a curve. This was then fitted underneath between the foot boards. 

Here the under frame is primed and the ballast box in place. A smiths coupling hook is also in place. A coat of precision bauxite has been brush applied, painting around the numbers. Weathering will be to a "semi-disgraceful" level so this should not matter too much. 

 

Flush glazing is added to the inner ends and the duckets. I use plastic from my daughter's toy packaging usually. A set of Vernier calipers is useful here for getting the aperture size. I set the height then scrape the caliper along a straight edge of the plastic which scribes the height. this strip is cut out then the widths marked in the same manner. 600 grit sandpaper refines the size. I use PVA glue to set them in place as a tiny amount is strong enough and dries clear.

And so we are up to date. The under frame is painted HUMBROL 32 dark grey as this assists the weathering process. Black is just too...well black! The handrails are painted white. I have not fitted the inner ends yet or the roof, which will be sprayed roof blue grey. instanter couplings will be added also. 

 

Thanks for now guys. I will check in shortly with the steps to completion. 

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by westernviscount
New Title

[Clagsniffer]

Nice work there. I really do enjoy seeing people revitalising older models, looks very rewarding. Must try something similar myself!

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Nice work., real modelling instead of box opening.

A couple of observations if I may.

It's easier to clean and square the buffer beam with the buffers removed, Lanarkshire replacements will look a lot better, as would Dave's coupling hook and pocket.

It's a personal thing I know, but, 0.5 handrails equate to one and a half inches and always look far too chunky for me, my preference is 0.30/0.35mm wire into 0.4mm holes, with the added advantage of being able to more easily tweak the bend a tad if needed.

 

Mike.

[westernviscount]

2 hours ago, Clagsniffer said:

Nice work there. I really do enjoy seeing people revitalising older models, looks very rewarding. Must try something similar myself!

 Thanks Clag. Yes, i have enjoyed this project probably because the end is in sight early on and each element is fairly straight forward

 

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Nice work., real modelling instead of box opening.

A couple of observations if I may.

It's easier to clean and square the buffer beam with the buffers removed, Lanarkshire replacements will look a lot better, as would Dave's coupling hook and pocket.

It's a personal thing I know, but, 0.5 handrails equate to one and a half inches and always look far too chunky for me, my preference is 0.30/0.35mm wire into 0.4mm holes, with the added advantage of being able to more easily tweak the bend a tad if needed.

 

Mike.

 

Thanks Mike,

 

Yes, I agree on both counts. The handrails are .5mm because the model is handled regularly, however i doubt this actually makes much difference. 

 

I may well still act upon your lanarkshire buffers suggestion as i have used Dave's buffers for locos (a dropped Hymek!!!) in the past. In truth, i wanted this "build" to be zero expense which so far it has proven to be.

 

I will post the final shots as soon as i complete the build as soon as i can!  Then there will be the weathering!

 

Cheers chaps. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Just to go slightly OT for a moment, in the first picture, how did you do the lettered fluorescent station lamp?

 

Mike.

[brossard]

Great to see someone actually modelling.  I used to do a lot of this in 00 and continue to do similar things in 0.

 

I am in agreement with Mike about the handrails.  0.3 mm wire is a nearer scale size for handrails in 00, and the thickness jumped out at me from the pic.  (0.5mm is appropriate for 0)  However, you have stated your reasons and your preference.

 

Also agree about Lanarkshire models parts, excellent quality.

 

John

[westernviscount]

3 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Just to go slightly OT for a moment, in the first picture, how did you do the lettered fluorescent station lamp?

 

Mike.

 

Well Mike I used brass tube for the pole, a wider diameter tube used for the base.  I laminated and shaped plastikard for the lamp with a plastikard top. The name was simply printed on paper and stuck on which is slightly rough and ready but it looks OK I think. 

[westernviscount]

3 hours ago, brossard said:

Great to see someone actually modelling.  I used to do a lot of this in 00 and continue to do similar things in 0.

 

I am in agreement with Mike about the handrails.  0.3 mm wire is a nearer scale size for handrails in 00, and the thickness jumped out at me from the pic.  (0.5mm is appropriate for 0)  However, you have stated your reasons and your preference.

 

Also agree about Lanarkshire models parts, excellent quality.

 

John

 

Yes John, on reflection I will probably elect to use .3mm for finer projects. I have a Dapol 20t brake van to build next so will try this out. 

 

I am interested in the "real or actual modelling" idea. I really enjoy this type of project because it helps me achieve what I want out of the hobby which is to become immersed in an activity which is challenging enough to keep my mind occupied and not too challenging as to frustrate me!! flow state I believe this is called. Certain projects can tip into frustrating and border line despair!!!

[brossard]

These are the sorts of things we develop over time.  I've done the same thing in my restoration projects.  You look at the result critically and ask yourself if this looks right.  I recall putting handrails on a GWR Toad (laborious) only to find after I was done that they looked too thick.  Off they came and I did it again with finer wire.

 

There are compromises that sometimes have to be made where robustness trumps appearance. 

 

I did the old Hornby 20T LMS brake using a Bill Bedford etched brass underframe and some Lanarkshire parts.  I didn't really touch the body, I felt it was pretty good already.

 

Keep up the modelling.

 

John

[westernviscount]

So I was tempted just to complete the blog with the finished van, however things did not run smoothly last night and in the name of honesty I though I would document the problems I faced (created for myself) and how I managed to not end up smashing the damn thing the bits!!

 

 

First off, I had persuaded myself that the Dapol BR 20t standard roof was wide enough for this model. After initial test fittings I felt it was sufficient. However, after joining and sanding I had reduced the width to a point where it noticably didn't fit with sufficient overhang. Having glued it on at an odd angle anyway, upon removal I broke it where I had joined the two!! the picture illustrates the roof after the fact on a different van I nicked a roof from. 

 

 

The roof remains loose in this picture. I applied a wash of weathering powder and decalfix which I have had success with in the past...

 

Although under this light, things don't look too bad, under the layout lighting and to my eye it just looks a bit heavy handed and is a consequence of already being frustrated with my roof mistake!!

So, luckily the powders can be taken off as the decalfix can be reactivated with water or more decalfix. 

So now I have the basis for further detailed weathering but I shall pick a moment when I am more focused!! I have attempted to show the rust on the veranda ends which follow the lines of the diagonal struts behind the panel. I also intend to paint the veranda floors whilst the roof is loose. 

 So overall I am happy with the resurrection of this previously doomed model. However...

 

I now have to scratch build a roof for this one!! my need for a fitted outweighed the need for an unfitted on this occasion. 

 

Cheers for now folks!

[brossard]

Those are looking good.  Scratchbuilding roofs is not too difficult.  I had to scratchbuild the solebars on a wagon that I plan to restore.  The handrails look finer on these latest two, at least to my eye.

 

John

[westernviscount]

Cheers John.

After such a disappointing weathering job i was happy to save it. Agreed, i think the scratchbuild roof should be fine. I did a couple for a pair of 20t standard vans.

Although for this one i copied the airfix roof configuration for the chimney and vent positions which is wrong of course as the airfix is a mirror image of the prototype. We live and learn!

 

Cheers for now. 

Dave

[westernviscount]

So i ended up scratchbuilding a roof for my unfitted van, having pinched the roof for the fitted upgrade vehicle. 

 

The paint and glue on top of the body sides, where the roof is set onto the body, is scrape and sanded away back to bare plastic. I used revell contacta to bond a 12 thou thick plastikard sheet as the first layer of the roof, cut to fit flush to the bodysides. Then a second sheet of 12 thou sheet, cut 1mm larger by width and length is bonded on top. The edges of the top layer are sealed with EMA plastic weld to ensure there are no humps or ridges. 

Rain strips were added, cut from 12 thou sheet again into thin strips. 

 

A chimney is added using 1.3 plastic rod again. 

 

I am happier with this finish than my initial roof splice and feel it finer and more prototypical than the Dapol original. 

 

So with that in mind...

 

I replaced the fitted roof for a 3rd time in the manner i should have used at the beginning as it was a damn sight easier than the splice!!!!

 

Oh, if anyone could advise me on what colour you recommend for the roof then that would be much appreciated. I use br non-maroon stock grey but doubt this is correct.

 

Many thanks guys!!

 

 

[31A]

I've made replacement roofs for some of these vans by sellotaping 20 thou Plastikard (0.5mm) to a wine bottle and filling it with boiling water; once cool remove the sellotape and the roof is curved.  I usually paint goods van roofs with Humbrol dark greys, either no. 32 or no. 67, then further weathering with thinned matt black.

 

[westernviscount]

15 hours ago, 31A said:

I've made replacement roofs for some of these vans by sellotaping 20 thou Plastikard (0.5mm) to a wine bottle and filling it with boiling water; once cool remove the sellotape and the roof is curved.  I usually paint goods van roofs with Humbrol dark greys, either no. 32 or no. 67, then further weathering with thinned matt black.

 

 

That sounds like a good approach to pre-shaping the plastikard. I found 12 thous to be so thin it just holds its shape after bonding. It remains to be seen whether it distorts over time as i have laminated two sheets which is not always wise. 

 

As for the colour, thank you for the advice. Yes, i use humbrol 32 for underframes as it gives a better base than black to weather on top of. I shall give this a go!

 

Cheers

[TheSignalEngineer]

9 minutes ago, westernviscount said:

As for the colour, thank you for the advice. Yes, i use humbrol 32 for underframes as it gives a better base than black to weather on top of. I shall give this a go!

For my ĺatest attempt at weathered black I sprayed the kit underframe with matt black then gave it a wash of thinned Humbrol 32 before adding the grime.

[Phil Bullock]

Great work! Another vote for Dave Franks buffers from me - have just added them to my Hornby version of this van along with a screw link coupling so the packing pieces are needed. Did that apply with Instanters?

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Mr Franks will know best, but my understanding is that fitted meant packed buffers irrespective of couplings..

 

Mike.

[Phil Bullock]

11 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Mr Franks will know best, but my understanding is that fitted meant packed buffers irrespective of couplings..

 

Mike.

 

Cheers Mike

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brlmsbrakevan

 

As usual Paul Bartlett site has some answers...

 

Seems as if all vans with screw couplings have packing, some with instanters have - but some dont

 

 

[westernviscount]

After a distracting cambrian walrus build i took 5 mins to finish the roof of the brake. 

I am definitely happier with the thinner roof and it was a lot easier than the previous method. Thanks for the comments chaps. I have certainly learnt a few things! 

 

I'm dabbling with a 3d print replacement for a Dapol/airfix 20t brake. 

 

I also stocked up on .33mm wire for handrails ;-) 

 

Cheers all.

[westernviscount]

[Corbs]

What a damned fine job. Thank you for documenting and explaining the process so well too, certainly helps folk like me out.

[westernviscount]

12 hours ago, Corbs said:

What a damned fine job. Thank you for documenting and explaining the process so well too, certainly helps folk like me out.

 

Thanks corbs. I enjoyed bringing this old relic back to life. I have learned quite a bit during the project and have been really appreciative of the encouragement and constructive criticism above. 

 

Cheers

Dave

[westernviscount]

So having dug out the second donated brake van I am going to attempt a "reverse" Stanier Brake. An example is here on the Paul Bartlett site https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbrakevan. 

 

Here is the model as dug out of the drawer again...

 

Butchery will ensue...

• The veranda doorways will be reversed, cutting the side window section and struts away and attempting to position them of the opposite side of the van. This is probably too optimistic and will require some scratchbuilding. The ends are quite different so a simple mod may not work. 
• The "cant rail" needs to go
• Handrails fitted
• new bufferbeam furniture including buffers
• A refinement of the foot boards needs to happen
• rivet detail removed and screw marks created
• A potential re-scribe of the planking
• Guard's cabin doors scratch-built to replace missing ones
• A new roof as original missing and a finer beig needed anyway.
• I have not ruled out a Bill Bedford chassis but have never built one and feel it might be a greater expense than this project deserves. 

Any advice and suggestions are more than welcome. I don't have drawings of the vehicle but assume at this early stage that the doorways are equally as wide. Do we feel this is the case? 

 

 

 

 

[westernviscount]

To capitalise on an out of character energy spurt I set about the shell with a chisel scalpel and sand paper. Handrails, rivets and the beading along the top of the body were taken back.

Then i ploughed ahead with the removal of the window aperture panel. I wanted to preserve it to use on the opposing side. 

I ran a scalpel down the line on the inner end wall and across the line of the floor.

The cuts were tidied with a sanding block. The remainder of the planking near the floor was scraped and sanded back. 

 

A notch was scraped into the cutaway piece so it could slot into the opposing side. Here it is loose fit as a trial. 

 

I am fairly pleased that the character of the reverse stanier is beginning to emerge at this early stage. 

 

Much carving and butchery to follow. Although creating a notch to marry up to the ends I have not decided how to tackle the end yet. A small drink might aid this part! 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by westernviscount