Lower Thames Yard

[St Enodoc]

6 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Thanks

That is what I thought.

 

However, the layout is to be run in multiple time eras, on the idea that the Thame line was rebuilt as per Chiltern's 1990s evaluation, and was built instead of  the chord at Bicester! (uneconomical, I know!)

 

So Thame might well have had concrete? Off cause if this had happened the yard would not have been built (here I'm invoking Rule 1!) and perhaps the pipeline to the oil terminal might not have been, so the oil trains would have continued?

 

Cheers

Paul

My view, for what it's worth, is that you would certainly see wooden sleepers/timbers/bearers long after concrete had become common elsewhere but never the other way round. Moreover, even if the plain track on your rejuvenated Thame branch had been relaid with concrete I would not expect the same to be the case with the pointwork.

[5BarVT]

Hi Paul,

I have been unpacking after our move and came across this (purchased as 'scrap' in a right time right place moment early in my career).  I thought you might like a photo.

Paul.

[Tallpaul69]

2 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Hi Paul,

I have been unpacking after our move and came across this (purchased as 'scrap' in a right time right place moment early in my career).  I thought you might like a photo.

Paul.

Careful,

The custodians of Princes Risborough North Box might ask for it back!

 

I have been busy with e mails to the layout Builders and the Signal builders sorting out queries and getting to understand how the Points and the Signals controls can interface.

 

Just in case I pause for breath, there is also the matter of understanding ballasting!

Have watched several videos, which all seem to involve an awful lot of water?

 

Has anyone used the Deluxe Materials  Ballast Bond, which seems to not need water? I guess its not cheap but how much track will a bottle do?

 

Cheers All

Paul

[Tallpaul69]

Well now folks,

I have taken the plunge and bought some items to trial ballasting!

 

This morning I braved the driving rain and relieved AGR of a bottle of Legacy Light Grey 00 ballast, a small bottle of Deluxe Materials Ballast Bond and a Gaugemaster Applicator kit.

Not the cheapest approach possibly, but I am going for minimal mess!

 

So now I need to fix some bits of track and points to a small board, assemble the applicator, and see how I get on.

 

Still a way to go on the Signals/Points control front but progress is being made!

 

I am hoping for an early January delivery on the layout, but with anothe national lockdown being discussed, who knows?

 

Best regards

Paul

 

[5BarVT]

6 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

I am hoping for an early January delivery on the layout, but with anothe national lockdown being discussed, who knows?

Hopefully it counts as ‘manufacturing’ so they’ll be able to keep going with it.

Paul.

[Tallpaul69]

16 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Hopefully it counts as ‘manufacturing’ so they’ll be able to keep going with it.

Paul.

Yes, let's hope so. Of course they may hit problems in the supply of parts:- 

eg:- Peco may not be able to supply some items due to problems in the supply chain, and of course Brexit may delay deliveries of all sorts of things!

 

Meanwhile I am working on the controls of the signals and how they might link to the controls of the points. The signals get complicated as there are semaphores and mechanical ground signals for the 1960s running of the layout and colour light signals and ground signals for the modern era. All will plug in and out for my changeover of eras.

 

No progress yet on my trials of ballasting, I aim to get the tracks and points board mounted tomorrow.

I am also compiling a list of items I want to get from AGR before the shop closes for lockdown on Wednesday night.

 

I hope you have all got the modelling supplies you need, or know where you can get them online?

Best regards

Paul   

[Tallpaul69]

Good Afternoon All,

Are the UK citizens amongst you like us, getting your minds round the implications of Lockdown Mk2?

Although not high, the average level in our council district has over the last 3 weeks tripled from c30 to c90, although Luton, 10 miles away is at twice that level and was already going into Tier 2.

 

We are busy checking the not food items we have and regularly use to see what we haven't got two months + stock of!

No, we won't be going off on a crazy buying spree, but it is sensible to think that one month duration is optimistic? 

 

What is not clear is whether the supermarkets will be banned from selling non food items? If so, that could be difficult and force us to more internet buying!

My wife had a hair appointment last Saturday, and I managed to get into my barbers early today and only had to wait for six people to be done!

After that I bought a few items that came immediately to mind such as batteries, envelopes, and Christmas cards. I think we will compile a list over breakfast tomorrow and decide how we are going to replenish them.

 

So have not got too far on the modelling front today. Tomorrow is another day, when I will be looking to get the ballasting trials started.

Best regards

Paul

[Tallpaul69]

Well, 

that was a 100% letdown!

I'm talking about the Bachmann Winter announcements.

Thought from all the hyp that my wallet was in for a severe beating, instead..... little of interest!

I might go for the sound fitted 94xx instead of getting sound fitted to the one I have on order! 

 

Been doing some work on the most modern version of "Thame". Originally, when expecting to be modelling the Maidenhead area in "Lower Thames Yard" I had set the most modern era as c2016, so that it was before the overheads went in, but I could have class 800's working on diesel.

The shift to The Wycombe Railway area removes the overheads problem so I could come nearer to the present.

Last night I downloaded a selection of pages from the Summer 2020 Network Rail WTT for the Marylebone - Aylesbury/Banbury area. I say a selection because the document runs to 182 pages!

However the run has been spread over two pages, and luckily Marylebone to Princes Risborough is on the first of each pair of page with the Met line to Aylesbury and Haddenham to Banbury on the second, so I can get away with printing just the first page.

So printing pages 1,3, 5,7,9,11, 13, and 15 gave me the down passenger/empty stock WTT from midnight until midday. 

There appears to be c5/6 trains an hour to HW (more in rush hours) with a good mixture of 165s, 168s and 68 hauled coach sets. I have 165s and 168s, but liveries are a bit of an issue. I am on the lookout for 68s in Chiltern livery.

I think Rule 1 is going to be well used here, as I want to run class 800s and also 150s,158s, and 143s!  

 

I have glued some bits of track to a board, and assembled my applicator, ready tomorrow to do a few ballasting trials.

 

Best regards

Paul

 

[Tallpaul69]

Yesterday I took a trip into town for a chat with Anthony at AGR prior to lockdown.

Modified my order for a 94xx to the newly announced SF version.

He will be operating a form of Chip and Collect for items that come into stock in the next four weeks.

 

I also had a read of my just arrived local interest railway book, The Dunstable Branch by Bill Simpson which has a lot about the Leighton Buzzard end of the branch and its interface with the narrow gauge railway. So I now have three books on this one line, but there is little overlap between them.

 

Today, I have been playing around with trials of ballasting. The applicator seems to work well, although the first time I misjudged completely how much ballast to load it with. Never mind, I was working on a large tray so the ballast was contained.

I am looking around the domestic equipment for something to dribble ballast around the moving parts of points. I did find a small funnel to fill the applicator from the jar with, but it is too big for the point applicator job! 

 

The bay has yielded a few ER versions of the Bachmann Mk1 suburban for my High Wycombe to Marylebone trains. I have quite a lot of these already but they are mainly WR versions, with a few LMR ones which latter will also do for the Marylebone trains. 

I am also bidding on some ER Gresley and Thompson suburbans, but they are quite a bit more expensive, so might have to be in the minority.

 

Best regards to everyone,

Cheers

Paul

[Tallpaul69]

Good Afternoon All,

 

The continuing ballast learning curve saga........

It's good news! I have, at the third attempt completed a ballast test that i am happy enough with to share.

 

 

I think I am still using too much ballast, but am open to suggestions from others?

I solved the problem of getting ballast into the areas in points by use of an eye dropper.  I have also found a small piece of card invaluable for clearing the narrow ways in points. 

I also need to find a small vacuum cleaner with a fine enough filter to catch ballast grains. The one we have has too coarse a filter.

 

My next test piece will involve a couple of better points, probably Peco ones, that will better reflect the layout when it is built, but I didn't want to possibly wreck good points until I had gained a bit of confidence. 

 

I have dug out my two books with allocations for Woodford Halse  and Neasden sheds in the 50s and 60s so that I can compile a list of possible loco purchases.

Annoyingly, before moving house 3 years ago I had a clear out of railway items including several K3 2-6-0s, of which Woodford had an allocation through the 50s and early 60s. I also sold a V2, which is not so much of a loss with the new version coming (soon?), which will be DCC ready.

 

Hope you are all well and not yet too fed up with Lockdown Mk2?

 

Best regards

Paul

 

 

[Nick Gough]

I have two rechargeable, handheld vacuums - a Black and Decker Dustbuster: 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Decker-WDC115WA-GB-Handheld-Vacuum/dp/B07P5TG1K7/ref=sr_1_8?crid=181PV3GDG4WC3&dchild=1&keywords=black+and+decker+dustbuster&qid=1604774350&sprefix=black+and+decker+du%2Caps%2C158&sr=8-8

and a Gtech Multi:

https://www.gtech.co.uk/cordless-vacuum-cleaners/handhelds/multi-mk2.html

 

Both have washable, sponge filters as well as removable, plastic dust/rubbish containers, allowing scatter, ballast etc, to easily be recycled.

 

I haven't used them for ballasting yet but I regularly use the Gtech during layout construction, especially after drilling through the baseboard. It's a bit pricey but has a good powerful suction and it also doubles up for cleaning the house!

[Nick Gough]

I expect you have this information already Paul:

 

Take from a document I picked up last week:

[Tallpaul69]

Hi Nick,

I don't have this service timetable but do have an equivalent WTT plus a Oxford station workings which gives the working passenger sets.

Regards

Paul

 

[St Enodoc]

13 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Hi Nick,

I don't have this service timetable but do have an equivalent WTT plus a Oxford station workings which gives the working passenger sets.

Regards

Paul

 

Paul, to avoid confusion, what Nick has posted is the Passenger Timetable (as used by the passengers/public). What most companies and regions called the Working Timetable (as used by the company's workers) was known on the Western as the Service Timetable (as used by the company's servants).

 

Edit - further clarification.

Edited November 8, 2020 by St Enodoc

[Tallpaul69]

12 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I said:-

Hi Nick,

I don't have this service timetable but do have an equivalent WTT plus a Oxford station workings which gives the working passenger sets.

Regards

Paul

St Enodoc said:-

Paul, to avoid confusion, what Nick has posted is the Passenger Timetable (as used by the passengers/public). What most companies and regions called the Working Timetable (as used by the company's workers) was known on the Western as the Service Timetable (as used by the company's servants).

For those confused by my terminology, I will translate my last post into GWR speak!:-

 

I don't have this passenger timetable but do have an equivalent service timetable.......

OK?

Cheers

Paul

Paul

[Tallpaul69]

21 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

For those confused by my terminology, I will translate my last post into GWR speak!:-

 

I don't have this passenger timetable but do have an equivalent service timetable.......

OK?

Cheers

Paul

Paul

Just to add to the confusion I had a look at my 1958 (not for publication) timetable and the front cover is as below!

 

 

I have also looked at my oldest timetable from 1954 which uses this terminology. However, I did notice that a 1947 GWR timetable (on sale on the bay), used the "Service Timetable" terminology.

So looks like BR bought in common terminology, although I expect the folks on the ground continued with the old terms for many years......

 

Meanwhile back on the workbench I have continued with my battle with the ballast!

Following comments after I posted the photo of my efforts that I put up here, on the Permanent Way thread, I took away a good amount of the ballast I had put down. Anticipating I might need to alter what I had done I did not glue the ballast down. As I was working on a tray it was not too difficult to gather up the surplus material without making a mess!

 

So here is the latest effort, again, not yet glued:-

 

 

There is still some grains to trap and the sleepers need a bit more cleaning, but there was no point in spending time getting 100% clean something I might need to modify further.

And from a recent comment on my Permanent Way thread I need to have a shoulder at the ends of the sleepers raised above the top of the sleepers, so putting this in will create more stray grains.

The comment suggested this was typical for GWR track and modern track.

So I need to look closely at some ex GWR track in photos to see what was done?

 

I hope by the end of this week to have first write up of a Working (Service!) Time Table for Thame, which I will share here.

 

Best regards

Paul

 

 

[St Enodoc]

6 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Just to add to the confusion I had a look at my 1958 (not for publication) timetable and the front cover is as below!

 

 

I have also looked at my oldest timetable from 1954 which uses this terminology. However, I did notice that a 1947 GWR timetable (on sale on the bay), used the "Service Timetable" terminology.

So looks like BR bought in common terminology, although I expect the folks on the ground continued with the old terms for many years......

That's interesting, Paul, and made me check.

 

My Summer 1952 Plymouth District book is in GWR style and is called "Service Time Tables". I've some pages copied from a Summer 1955 Freight book which are in BR style but no cover so I can't tell what the title was.  I can't narrow down the change beyond that but I'm sure someone here can.

[Tallpaul69]

So here we are at Thursday.......

Us Brits have been locked down for a week, only 3 more to go?

 

Good afternoon fellow modellers,

Have , from a modelling standpoint, suffered a "when I get round to it" phase the last three days!

For instance, so far, today has been one of those days when nothing has gone right! Each problem, has been small in it's own right, but when you get to mid afternoon and you have more items unresolved than resolved, it doesn't bode well for tomorrow - but tomorrow is another day!  

Admittedly a few outstanding house and garden jobs have got crossed off the "to do" list, so some modelling might soon be achieved.

 

Have done some modelling paperwork, such as moving the WTT for "Thame" forward a bit, although got sidetracked by using the latest draft to  write up a first version of a "Minimum" list of items to be fitted with Kadees. (Mainly ends of rakes of coaches and wagons) although the wagons for the three goods that will shunt the yard are only quantities at this stage, so I need to define them individually then cross reference with the list of wagons already fitted.

 

Doing this prompted me to put on the job list to try fitting magnets when I do the next ballasting trial, possibly this weekend.  

 

Hope you are all well and getting a load of modelling done?

Good Show!

Now what we need next week is a couple of announcements of real use to large numbers of modelers, rather than (in my opinion), the rather specialised or no news announcements of the last week or so. 

 

Regards

Paul

[Tallpaul69]

Good Afternoon everyone,

First of my 'bay purchases of ex LNER  suburban coaches arrived today, and while expensive relative to their ER MK1 suburban brothers , they are rather good and being only 51ft means 5 coach formations are a distinct possibility!

Have also got a couple of Thompsons on the way, so will have to start investigating actual formations used before I end up buying the wrong types.

I know some of the Marylebone formations were of the type "Brake, several all seconds, Brake", but I can't believe the stockbroker types from the HW area didn't warrant an All First or Composite or two?

 

Meanwhile, back on the "Thame" trail, having got a station WTT that seems to work, I need to tackle the difficult part of the WTT, which is the fiddle yard occupancy. Already it looks like both tanker trains will have to spend the night in the oil terminal to reduce the trains for storage by one. May have to shorten the formations of my locals by a coach (or 2!). I was aiming to have an up and down 4 coach , two up and down 3 coaches and a two coach each way, but siding space won't allow that.

The freight trains (other than the oil trains may also have to be trimmed although I need f1rst to work out the wagon sequence for the through up, shunting, dropping and picking up at the yard; then the through down, shunting, dropping and picking up at the yard; and lastly the Oxford to Thame and return pick up freight. 

 

I may for the through freights copy the operation of the 9.25 Hinksey described in GWJ, where it was suggested that this train and its down opposite number were often only engine and brake van between Thame and  Princes Risborough. Less wagons to hold in the fiddle sidings but more down to up transfers in the fiddle yard!

 

Must sign off now as it is time to get my other half a cup of tea!

Cheers

Paul

[Tallpaul69]

Hi Folks,

Well, what a miserable day!

I suppose we should be glad it's not cold, but I've been confined to the house, as I didn't fancy getting drenched going to the railway room, where there are no real facilities to dry a coat.

 

So, today it's been model paperwork, and model research/RMWeb on the laptop.

 

After a morning puzzling over the intricacies of wagon movements and siding occupation, I had a long lunch break, and started on the laptop mid afternoon!

Tomorrow is another (showery) day, but should allow me to get some modelling jobs from the railway room to do in the house.

 

Meanwhile our local Virus rate continues to rise, but plateaus and drops in some nearby areas holds some hope of the lockdown helping things?

 

Best regards

Paul 

 

 

[Tallpaul69]

'Afternoon All,

Better day today after morning downpour. I went for a walk this morning after the rain, and while there is no NGR to watch until the Santa Special start (fingers crossed!) in December, I did have a touch of inspiration on the modelling front.

You may recall that part of my plan to change eras on my layout is to have removable signals , one set of semaphores and one of colour lights. This is expensive, but having appropriate signals to the different eras rolling stock, will, I think, improve the picture.

Now High Wycombe had some quite complicated semaphores, and those operated by the North Box remained until that box was done away with in 1992. The Station area semaphores went earlier when the South box was abolished and the control was taken over by Marylebone Power Box. So between 1989 and 1991, the track layout was rationalised and colour light signals introduced.

My plan is that in my world the 1989-1992 changes didn't take place until later in the decade and so I can run my 1992 era trains under the semaphores!

I will still need colour lights for my most modern version of the layout, but I can make these minimal and therefore cheaper.

I have done too much thinking today, so will relax now and watch the highlights of the Turkish Grand Prix that are on channel 4 at 16.00.

 

So take care, stay safe, and here's hoping the lockdown shows some results in lowered rates of infection soon!

Cheers

Paul   

[Tallpaul69]

Good Day fellow modelers,

 

Today, I can share with you my latest thoughts on operating Thame in the modern era (c2018).

 

A downside of the shift in model scene from Maidenhead to Thame and High Wycombe is that the current GWR models I had been accumulating are redundant. Things are made worse by the lack of variety in the Chiltern Railway trains.

 

However, I have taken advantage of the GW Mainline Electrification. Remembering how the GW line to Birmingham was used in the 60s to relieve pressure on the LNWR line, I reasoned that if the Oxford to Princes Risborough line had still existed it could be used to take some of the Paddington to Oxford and Worcester Line trains away from the Reading route. So this allows me to run GWR HSTs, 158s etc. through Thame.

I could also run Cowley to the Docks car trains eastwards instead of them, in real life, having to go via Oxford.

 

Now I must download the Network Rail Worcester line WTT and see what trains that offers me. I might also use 143s and 150s to reintroduce the 60s Cowley workers trains!

 

Our Virus figures are still rising but I think the rate of rise is slowing down, so am hoping by next week we might have turned the corner!

Keep Safe and Keep Smiling,

Cheers

Paul

[Tallpaul69]

Good afternoon, one and all,

 

Its starting to get harder to devote as much time as i would like to modelling , and associated activities (such as reading and contributing to RMWeb), due to the approach of Christmas and the associated activities, even if lockdown prevents us from socialising as we used to!

 

Had an update yesterday from my layout builders. They hope to have sufficient track etc. to start my build early in the New Year, so I might have something to run some trains on by the end of March.

 

Continuing from my Monday post here, I have been looking at the non passenger trains for the modern version of Thame. This has lead me to hastily withdraw a EWS Liveried 08 from my "dispose" pile, as I realised that until fairly recently there was such a loco used in Hinksey yard.

So i am intending to bring this into Thame mid morning to help with the stabling of a 10.30am arrival to the oil terminal and then shunting the yard until helping with the dispatch of the oil empties around 1.30pm before returning to Hinksey.

Might bring it in with a few vans for the distribution depot in the yard and let it take some others away later to Hinksey. Additionally I will run in some vans from the Princes Risborough direction via a class 66 soon after the oil train arrives. These vans will be my continental models supposedly coming into the country via the tunnel.

I had these originally for a Cardiff to Dollands Moor train through Maidenhead on Lower Thames Valley, and had been wondering how I could use them now!

 

The intention is that the yard is used for two purposes in both the 1990s and late 2010s version, that is to services the distribution warehouse and for a small engineers depot. The distribution depot will fit over my model of the original goods shed. 

 

Am running out of laptop battery!

Cheers for now

Paul

 

 

[Tallpaul69]

Hi All,

Time seems to be flying by at the moment!

Haven't done much on the modelling front since my Wednesday post.

 

Am still working on plans for the modern version of Thame, currently debating the use of various DMUs such as class 143, 150, and 158 and HSTs on diverted Worcester line trains. The idea is that the variation of these would contrast with the sameness of Chiltern Rail 165s and 168s. I must get around to downloading the Network Rail Worcester Line WTT to sort out some possible timings.

 

This week I want to get as much Christmas preparation done as is possible this far out and with  the huge Virus unknowns to take account of.

 

Then I can get back to more modelling!

 

Best regards

Paul

[Tallpaul69]

Well folks,

It seems for the moment you can have any tier you like so long as it is 2or 3!

So lets just get on with our modelling and see what the first revue c16th December brings?

 

I'm taking a bit of a swerve on modelling  for a few days bought on by an offer of some trees from @Rowsley17D.

With some other bits and bobs dug out from my many storage boxes, I hope get in some scenery practice and to have a small rural scene for you to critique some time soon.

 

Meanwhile I have got my hands on some additional BR(W) railway working documents, so I will update here if I find in them any data useful to the Western community .

 

Cheers

Paul