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Tallpaul69
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Good evening , one and all,

Work on my full size mock ups for parts of the scenic treatment of Bradenham, has been slow this week.

Partly this has been due to my realising that with the build of the layout rolling steadily along, I ought to pick up the finalising of the signals with Stephen Freeman, particularly as i hadn't discussed the change necessary due to the change over to Bradenham with him!

While the track layout of Bradenham deliberately is the same as for Thame, the traffic is a bit different, so some changes to the signals will be needed.

The necessary change round of the cross over tracks between down and up lines near the goods yard entrance, while allowing movements such as the High Wycombe shunter crossing its train to the up line and then returning wrong road to Wycombe End, this has implications for the signals.

So the down home now needs to be changed to be a bracket signal with two subsidiary arms for moves from the down main to the up main and the station bay.

 

Once I have sorted the changes with Stephen I will post  a copy of the signal plan.

I am considering changing some of the signals from lower quadrant to upper quadrant. This did happen in the Princes Risborough area reflecting the influence of initially the LNER as partner in the joint line, and later the LMR management of the line.

At Princes Risborough, such changes included an upper quadrant bracket on the up side, so I might give Bradenham an upper quadrant up home and/or starter.  

 

Hope everyone is moving their layouts forward, and able to think about visits to things like transport attractions over this Bank Holiday weekend?

Best regards

Paul

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Signalling is progressing, but getting more complicated!

It looks like the down to up crossing near the goods yard is going to have subsidiary arms on the bracket signals at both ends rather than ground signals  and simple(!) bracket signals.

I am also debating how to deal with the wrong road working of the High Wycombe shunter when it accesses Wycombe End. One possibility is a shunt forward signal facing in the up direction of the down line near to the down home bracket signal. I will have to dig out my GW signalling tome , and my General Appendices to the WTT.

 

My wallet is feeling a bit sore. This saga started when I saw a Wrexham and Shropshire class 67 plus DVT set at a good price in AGR. Having agreed with Anthony about fitting DCC to the pair using a class 67TTS I had in stock, I then of course needed some coaches. Then ,one thing led to another and using my in stock sound fitted class 68, and acquiring the second DVT that Hornby did, I now have enough for a second set, so I can run one up, and another down.

My excuse is that I needed more variety in my modern passenger stock, although really its a rule 1 job, as the proper timeframe for these trains strictly is outside my eras modelled!

 

Cheers All,

  

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Here we are with another week flown by!

It has been complicated by our heating engineer asking to start on our boiler replacement 3/4 weeks earlier than we expected. So our utility room has been out of commission for the last three days (Yes! I know we are lucky to have one!).

 

Therefore modelling has been limited, but all the modern era items ordered last week have arrived, except the Class67/DVT which are having their decoders fitted.

I have about finalised the signals for Bradenham,  just the wrong road working to Wycombe End to finalise, then will get them drawn up. 

Hope to post this week the latest photos from the first two weekends plus half term daily workings of the LBNGR.

 

Take care all, round here all the districts covid ratings are going up, apart from Bedford, which, thank goodness is coming down but still three times ours, which in turn is over twice the national average.

 

Best regards

Paul

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The boiler saga moves on steadily.

Current estimate for completion is lunchtime on Thursday. 

 

Meanwhile the layout signalling plans are also nearly there.

Attached is a sketch where Stephen Freeman has superimposed the formats of the signals on the track plan.

I think there is just one set of movements that might require an additional ground signal. Then it is a matter of sorting out the controls.

 

Of course, if anyone can see more than one set of movements that the signals do not cover, please let me know.

Here I exclude all shunting movements within the yard area, and the whole of the non scenic area between the up advanced starter, signal 11, at 4 o'clock, on the right side of the layout, anticlockwise to the up home, signal 1, at the left side of the layout.  

 

Construction of the layout seems likely to reach the testing phase next week. So keep your fingers crossed!

 

BRADENHAMSIGNALS[2318]-Stephen Freeman-1.pdf

 

890278347_2021-06-08(5).png.0a76d5ce5cf74a2eacb7f14c3ff1503e.png

 

Meanwhile, keep smiling!!

 

Best regards

Paul

 

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Hello Paul,

 

Some comments on the proposed signalling if I may.  I had to make some assumptions as I went through, so I will list them as I go.  In order of the signal structures, here we go.


I’m assuming Down is right to left across the scenic section and Up is left to right.

 

Signal 2

I have assumed that Down freights arrive into the up platform using the facing crossover then go 4 > 2 > 7 to run round.  I don’t see any need for the shunt ahead on 2, I would expect to have to wait for line clear and use the main arm.  A better solution is to move 2 a loco length from the trailing xover, then the run round can be done completely under Bradenham control.

 

Signal 8

I assume the left hand arm is the exit from the Yard.  I’m not sure if it would have had a ringed arm as it isn’t on a Goods Line (but stand to be corrected).  However, I wonder if it needs a main arm at all since 11 isn’t that far away.  I would also want to be able to use the short headshunt so a yellow disc seems the most appropriate signal to me (down beside the yard points, so a separate structure).  If you do keep the short arm for trains leaving the yard, then I would also want a shunt disc into the headshunt.  The signalman won’t like that as he would have to answer th3 phone and pull it off for every shunt move.

I don’t see a need for a shunt ahead to 11, just clear the main arm, I can’t see a move that will have part of a train between 8 and 11 needing to be attached.

See comments on 12 regarding the right hand wrong road arm.

 

Signal 10

The centre arm to Up Main reads up to a shunt disc, so should also be a shunt disc.  I think mounted up on the bracket rather than at ground level, but route knowledge was expected back then.

I wondered about a calling on arm into the bay, but it looks sufficiently short that you wouldn’t get two trains in there.

 

Signal 12

I’m afraid I struggle with the wrong road concept back into the block section for Wycombe End.  Looking at your method of working bringing the wagons to Bradenham before going back to WE, I would have expected the goods to shunt WE on its way to Bradenham and not need to return.  Wrong road moves are very much a modern feature.

However, you did say that WE is ‘close’ to Bradenham, so if you want that to be a possibility, I suggest that WE is a 30s Unemployment Scheme grafted on to Bradenham.  Operated by a ground frame released from Bradenham and protected by a new motor worked Home signal.  With a shunt signal to stop the wrong road moves at the GF, then the right hand signal on 10 bracket becomes a shunt disc too.  Signal 12 is not required.

 

Whilst thinking about all of this, I can see inwards goods has to come from from Wycombe.  Does outwards goods go to Wycombe too?  How do you dispose of empty inwards and get outwards empties, as with only one loco in the yard you can’t shunt between inwards and outwards.  Is it your intention that wagons have to be worked out into the Up Platform to be run round?

 

Hope this helps, and isn’t too nit picking,

Paul.

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On 09/06/2021 at 11:08, 5BarVT said:

Hi [email protected]

 

Thanks for your input, below I have posted comments against each of your points:-


I’m assuming Down is right to left across the scenic section and Up is left to right. - Correct

 

Signal 2

I have assumed that Down freights arrive into the up platform using the facing crossover then go 4 > 2 > 7 to run round.  I don’t see any need for the shunt ahead on 2, I would expect to have to wait for line clear and use the main arm.  A better solution is to move 2 a loco length from the trailing xover, then the run round can be done completely under Bradenham control.

Down through freights that stop will use signal 2/ground 3 to transfer to the up main to collect/drop wagons from the inwards goods shed roads.

My understanding is that shunt ahead signals have to be mounted with a main signal? - 

 

Signal 8

I assume the left hand arm is the exit from the Yard.  -Yes. I’m not sure if it would have had a ringed arm as it isn’t on a Goods Line (but stand to be corrected).  However, I wonder if it needs a main arm at all since 11 isn’t that far away. (see my note above on shunt ahead signals). I would also want to be able to use the short headshunt so a yellow disc seems the most appropriate signal to me (down beside the yard points, so a separate structure).  If you do keep the short arm for trains leaving the yard, then I would also want a shunt disc into the headshunt. - Yes, I need to look at this. The signalman won’t like that as he would have to answer th3 phone and pull it off for every shunt move.

I don’t see a need for a shunt ahead to 11, just clear the main arm, I can’t see a move that will have part of a train between 8 and 11 needing to be attached.

See comments on 12 regarding the right hand wrong road arm.

 

Signal 10

The centre arm to Up Main reads up to a shunt disc, so should also be a shunt disc.  I think mounted up on the bracket rather than at ground level, but route knowledge was expected back then. I will look at this

I wondered about a calling on arm into the bay, but it looks sufficiently short that you wouldn’t get two trains in there. No, don't intend putting 2 trains in there!

 

Signal 12

I’m afraid I struggle with the wrong road concept back into the block section for Wycombe End.  Looking at your method of working bringing the wagons to Bradenham before going back to WE, I would have expected the goods to shunt WE on its way to Bradenham and not need to return.  See below! Wrong road moves are very much a modern feature. See below!

However, you did say that WE is ‘close’ to Bradenham, so if you want that to be a possibility, I suggest that WE is a 30s Unemployment Scheme grafted on to Bradenham. My existing story is that it is a 1960's redevelopement of a sprawling wagon repair facility, So, yes, it could have originated as a 30s Unemployment scheme when there was a downturn in HWs Furniture manufacturing!

Operated by a ground frame released from Bradenham and protected by a new motor worked Home signal.  With a shunt signal to stop the wrong road moves at the GF, then the right hand signal on 10 bracket becomes a shunt disc too.  Signal 12 is not required. I will look at this. The shunting operations at Bradenham are still evolving, there will be an update on this soon!

Remember, this layout runs in multiple eras, the semaphores are removable and replaceable (if needed in a particular location) by Colour lights.

 

Whilst thinking about all of this, I can see inwards goods has to come from from Wycombe.  No, some inwards goods to WE is dropped off at Bradenham and then taken forward to WE by the shunter.

Does outwards goods go to Wycombe too?  Not all of it.

How do you dispose of empty inwards and get outwards empties, as with only one loco in the yard you can’t shunt between inwards and outwards.  Is it your intention that wagons have to be worked out into the Up Platform to be run round?

Yes- just to make shunting more interesting!

As at High Wycombe in real life, the inwards traffic is greater  than the outward loaded traffic.

 

Hope this helps, and isn’t too nit picking,- No, all is very helpful!

Other folks input will be welcome!

Cheers

Paul

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Some very interesting ideas  Paul. Moving away from signalling for the moment... at the top of the hill from Bradenham, in Walter's Ash, there is an RAF base. I'm sure you could use this to justify some traffic and perhaps depict travelling servicemen with kitbags on the station platform.

 

Cheers

Nigel H

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3 hours ago, nharding99 said:

Some very interesting ideas  Paul. Moving away from signalling for the moment... at the top of the hill from Bradenham, in Walter's Ash, there is an RAF base. I'm sure you could use this to justify some traffic and perhaps depict travelling servicemen with kitbags on the station platform.

 

Cheers

Nigel H

More likely they'll have a staff car as that's strike command ( or whatever they call it now )so lots of brass 

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So as to finalise the signals for Bradenham, I have been working on the timetable.

There is still quite a bit to do but here are a few of my ideas, for your examination:-

1) I wanted to improve the shunting capacity at Bradenham, by getting a shunting engine there at some times during the day so that the trips by the High Wycombe shunter could be just that, thus not leaving High Wycombe without a shunter for too long. The break though came when I remembered that the loco which bought in the morning parcels to Princes Risborough from Reading via Maidenhead, returned around 0930 to Slough light engine. So I am going to plan out that engine proceeds from Princes Risborough to Bradenham LE, performed shunting and trips to Wycombe End through the day, and then leaves Bradenham LE or on a short parcels to Slough or Maidenhead early evening, ready to haul the 20.10 Maidenhead to Reading parcels.

2) As a result of the above, the High Wycombe shunter, will bring a morning trip into Bradenham, returning after a short turn round to High Wycombe. In the early evening the High Wycombe shunter will bring a second trip into Bradenham, which is interesting as it will be a different engine to that on the morning one. This is because, each day, the High Wycombe shunter was swapped with the engine off the afternoon Slough to High Wycombe freight.

3) Another trip into Bradenham from the High Wycombe direction is the morning Paddington to Bradenham parcels railcar. In real life, this trip terminated at Beaconsfield, but it's an excuse to run an AEC or a cravens diesel parcels van.

4) Two freights on the down track that will call at Bradenham will be the late morning visit of the Taplow to Oxford pick up  and the late afternoon Old Oak to Banbury pick up goods. The trains in the up direction will call from Banbury early afternoon and Oxford late morning.  In reality these trains most of these trains ran non stop between High Wycombe and Princes Risborough, the only train stopping at West Wycombe and Saudersford was the up Banbury to OOC pick up. 

5) I hope to extend one of the Marylebone to High Wycombe  commuter trains  morning and evening to Bradenham, but I need to do more work on the timings of these trains to make this work.

6) Otherwise the trains will be the real time table mix of ER/LMS and WR trains of the period for the line, although the above changes may clash with some of these trains, resulting in a bit of adjustment all round!

 

Cheers for now

Paul 

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I am still looking at the suburban trains into High Wycombe and which could go on to Bradenham, but first, I have been playing with the possibilities for Auto trains and single car diesel units.

One train that I am planning to terminate at Bradenham is the single car plus trailer that leaves Maidenhead at 0737 and arrives at High Wycombe at 0819.

In reality this left for Maidenhead again at 0846, which gives it time to pause at High Wycombe in both directions , and have a 5 minute turn round in Bradenham's bay platform 0830-0835.

This unit will also pass through Bradenham to and from Aylesbury in the afternoon with its trailer replaced by a parcels van (a different one in each direction!).

I also have two autocoaches, a Hornby (ex Airfix), and a Bachmann. One will run with a 14xx, one with a 64xx. in addition I have a second single car diesel, and a GWR AEC car. I think I can use three, but not four!

To use three, I might have the second diesel on the Aylesbury/Banbury to High Wycombe locals with one Auto. The other Auto I might use on a Bradenham afternoon extension of a Marlow to High Wycombe afternoon trip.

 

More thought required, but we are getting there!

Cheers to you all,

Paul

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I had some good news this morning:-

Fingers crossed, there is a good chance that my layout will be delivered to me by the end of the month.

 

So here are a few shots i have been sent of it:-

 

1) Shot from the right hand end of the layout with the fiddle yard to the right, the Inward Goods Shed tracks in the centre, and the yard entrance at the left.

1759950664_PaulBradenhamLayout-1.jpg.5ae92c4869916bb85e6b0ac73ab640a8.jpg

2) The left hand end of the layout, fiddle yard to the right, outward yard in the centre and the station area with bay to the left. At the top centre you may be able to make out one of the junctions for future expansion, which should become the connection to Wycombe End.

823583292_PaulBradenhamLayout-4.jpg.18541ff6e299f66b89129dfe02a56445.jpg

3) View from the right hand end of the layout, with just two boards up. Fiddle yard to the right, inwards goods shed roads near centre, with outwards yard beyond. The yard entrance, bay platform and station are to the left. The junction in the foreground is in place for a future extension of extra storage sidings.

394875110_PaulBradenhamLayout-3.jpg.6d334a669f5c521f4336f4615cf34ba5.jpg

 

In future posts I will discuss the layout in more detail and indicate where some of the scenic features will sit.

Cheers

Paul

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Picking up where my last post finished:-

 

1593275573_PaulBradenhamLayout-3.jpg.d37b4389ad4bb3cdfd1382f9ab2a2c89.jpg

 

In the centre of the photo above, will be the two road Goods Inwards Shed.

This will be a shortened version of the similar real shed at High Wycombe, so all the Goods Shed photos that Nick Gough et al have sent me in the past will get used!

To the right of the shed will be the shed yard, although I have yet to decide where the shed offices will go. To the right of that running up the centre of the photo will be the main High Wycombe to Princes Risborough road. Between the end of the goods shed and the camera there will be a side road. To the left that road goes to a few houses in the semicircle between the curve of the main lines and the goods shed.

 

A scenic break in the form of low relief houses will sit beside the main road, between it and the fiddle yard. More on this area anon....

 

Meanwhile, I have found a solution to my problem of the shunting engine at Bradenham. Looking at my 1964 WTT for the line I found that the engine off the morning Reading Parcels at that time performed freight duties in the Princes Risborough area after arrival and then ran back to Southill LE around 4pm.

So in my world it will run back to Bradenham, perform shunting and Wycombe End trips, then return towards High Wycombe around 4pm, making sure that it keeps clear of my autocoach trip to and from and to Marlow!

 

I will post another update soon, provided we are not washed away by all of today's rain!!

Cheers all,

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5 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

I will post another update soon, provided we are not washed away by all of today's rain!!

Cheers all,

We nearly were when we collected our grandsons from school this afternoon. It really hammered it down just at the right wrong time!

 

I'd only just dried out after walking the dog in the morning as well.

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Everywhere seems to have dried out now (just!)

 

I have made some progress with the Bradenham local trains that i mentioned a couple of postings ago.

 

I want to have a Marylebone suburban set stabled at Bradenham overnight:-

One possibility is the 8.20pm from Marylebone which arrived at High Wycombe at 9.15pm whence the train returned ECS to Neasden. My version would continue to Bradenham, arriving 925pm shunt to one of the sidings and then the engine shunt until 1130pm when it would return LE to Neasden. In the morning one of the pair of LEs that arrived at High Wycombe at 5.40am for suburban duties would continue to Bradenham, arriving at 5.50am, to return with the overnight stabled coaches as the 6.05am to Marylebone.

 

I also mentioned earlier that I had a spare single diesel car. I am thinking about using this on an Aylesbury to Wycombe End workers train, to introduce the occasional passenger stock to Wycombe End. To do this will mean building a passenger platform at Wycombe End, which is tight , but feasible for a single car! More on this anon.

 

Best regards'

Paul

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Yesterday, I mused about a Wycombe End workers bubblecar. So This morning  I did a little bit of surveying, and concluded that possibly the best, and certainly the easiest, place to put in a short platform was at the end of the rails between the engine shed and the boundary fence, in which there is a convenient double gate.

While the track side is not flat, it just means that the platform supports will be longer at the front than at the back. The site is perhaps a little narrow, but with just a class 121/2 worth of passengers this should not be too much of a problem.

 

So here are a couple of shots of the area with a bubblecar on a test run in situ. Apologies for the Henley on Thames destination, but it is just a test!

1102216455_paulwycombeendstation-5.jpg.e75e58b3283fb6652040a6e0920e40b6.jpg

 

and Yes, I know there is a pile of junk by the double, gates, have to get the lads round there to clean it up (give them a change from their continuing battle further along the fence!).

So tomorrow (maybe!) I'll get some measurements and make a mock up?

Cheers for now,

paul wycombe end station-1.jpg

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mocking up the platform for Wycombe End has proven more challenging than I had expected!

 

I fairly quickly set up the line of the fence side, but the platform edge is proving challenging. I have tried the well established pencil attached to a coach method, but feel that this has produced an edge line that leaves too large a gap between the platform edge and stock. 

 

Still, tomorrow is another day and will hopefully produce an edge I am happy with.

 

Another item that has given me food for thought, this time for Bradenham, is a photo in Kevin Robertson's 2004 book, First Generation DMUs. It shows a train comprising what appears to be a class 115 DMBS attached to a Class 128 DMPV parcels unit forming the 4.45 High Wycombe to Aylesbury service on 18th October 1962. As well as being an unusual formation, this train bears the headcode 2A83, which was the code for the Slough to Windsor trains, which suggests that the DMBS is in fact a class 117. So I am working out how I can incorporate it into my Bramingham timetables.

 

Cheers for now,

Paul    

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3 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

I fairly quickly set up the line of the fence side, but the platform edge is proving challenging. I have tried the well established pencil attached to a coach method, but feel that this has produced an edge line that leaves too large a gap between the platform edge and stock. 

Set your pencil up so that when the coach is on straight track the pencil line is 20mm from the track centre-line.

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Good Afternoon All,

 

I am set for a busy week ahead!

Bradenham is due to be delivered to me on Tuesday, so I will try to document the arrival, unpacking, and setting up process.

 

Nothing much will happen until Wednesday as the boards will be delivered bubble wrapped to the decking outside our conservatory, and then I will put them inside the conservatory Tuesday afternoon to "decontaminate" until later on Wednesday.

Next, they will get moved to the Railway Room and the unpacking and setting up will start. I don't expect to have anything operational until early next week, allowing one day each for setting on their legs, positioning, and connecting together of the three boards, then at least one day sorting out the electrics.

Meanwhile, I have some sorting out in the railway room to do, including moving out a lot of things that will be eventually be stored under the layout, while the setting up takes place.

 

So please watch this space for updates!

Cheers

Paul

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11 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

We want an unboxing video!

 

(actually, no we don't)

Don't worry!

Me and Utube seem not to get on with regard to Videos, so you are safe from that experience.

Thankfully, as of 1330 today, tomorrow now looks more or less rain free, so everything should be OK! 

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Good afternoon all,

Layout safely delivered lunchtime today, and safely stashed in our conservatory for its 24hrs decontamination before a roving shower came along!

 

I haven't bothered with any photos today as the bubble wrap and shrink wrap the boards are sheathed in don't reveal much of the detail.

So tomorrow I hope to get the legs and the left hand board into the Railway room and unwrapped. The weather is forecast to be ok, so I hope to spend time on the layout and maybe get the first board into position. 

Thus I should be able to take some photos to show you something of the layout.

 

In the paperwork with the layout was a plan of the layout as built, so I will post that for your information tomorrow.

Take care all,

Regards

Paul 

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Good Evening Folks,

So today, I have moved the packed up boards from our conservatory to the Railway Room. This was quite a challenging exercise because the path to the room runs between bushes along the side of the garage block and the lawn, which I had to avoid stepping on as it was professionally reseeded a couple of weeks ago due to the original reseeding they did a  year ago having not produced the quality of lawn expected. 

Anyway, we managed it, although glad the boards were not larger than 4ft x 4ft.  

 

Attached are a couple of pictures.

The first one shows the centre board covering most of the station and the yard at the top, with the fiddle yard roads at the bottom. It is still in bubble wrap and shrink wrap, but you can see most of the tracks. Here it is leaning against the side of Wycombe End.  

 

1563432877_PaulBradenhamBoards-1.jpg.0b5650fa2bfe1f8bd1a313abcb842f7b.jpg

 

The second shot is of the underside of the left hand board , which provides the left hand end curve from the station to the fiddle yard, the left end of the fiddle yard loops, and the left ends of the station yard sidings.

 

227209815_PaulBradenhamBoards-2.jpg.8ad2f6f6c52ac7830a00459dfc3ad40b.jpg

 

Not much detail can be seen, the black blobs are the Cobalt point motors .

All will be seen when the board is unwrapped tomorrow. It is leaning against the outer wall of the room, set the right way round for positioning once the legs have been fitted.

 

I hope to get this board into its final position tomorrow, when I will take some more photos . Meanwhile I have turned the instruction sheet into a tick sheet with some additions that are peculiar to my installation.

 

I hope you are all making progress with your models?

Cheers

Paul

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