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Getting back to modelling:-

Had mixed luck this morning:-

Liberated an example of the latest WR Toad from AGRs shelves. Justified the purchase on the grounds that it is in weathered grey! Yes, I know I could weather one of the half dozen or so I already have, but my excuse is that I need to have one pre weathered to measure my efforts against. (Don't hold your breath waiting to see my efforts, there is along queue outside the wagon works and the works is on a one day week (if you are lucky!!).

 

Not so good were my efforts to book an advanced ticket for Ally Pally.

 

I'd forgotten in the last year that I had registered with the site, so wasted time trying to register after choosing ticket. Then when site told me I was registered wasted more time as couldn't remember password. Then got to paying only to find basket had timed out! Hadn't realized basket had a time running down!

 

So gave up, try again tomorrow!!

 

Still a few amusing comments on posts on this site has restored my good humour.

 

Keep smiling!

Cheeers

Paul

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Morning All,
This morning's paper talks of limiting sporting fixtures to 500 attendees, so I read this as hinting that as result shows such as Ally Pally and York, might get the chop!
There is a big government meeting with sports organisations on Monday, I think I will wait until we see the outcome of that before I book my ticket!

Cheers
Paul

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Good afternoon All,

The running of the railway in the 60s could be very complex, but we should remember that such complexity always had a reason, because complexity usually implie cost and always, even before the modern craze for cost cutting came along, the railway did not incur cost for no good reason.

A case relevant to Lowe Thames Yard is the Maidenhead Shunting Engines.

 

Simplistically Maidenhead had a shunter from 0930 until 2100. However this period actually involved three different engines and defined (in the WTT), but in practice varied, periods of Passenger /parcels, and goods shunting.

So the process of shunting and changing shunting engines was as follows:-

The first arrived 0930 from Slough. It shunted passenger/parcels until 1200 when it turned to goods shunting

It then swaped with the engine on the 1325 from Bourne End arriving 1343 which departed for Taplow at 1353

The engine from the 1343 arrival then shunted goods until 1930 when it departed to Slough shed

The engine that picked up the 1325 from Bourne End arrived at Taplow at 1357

It returned through Maidenhead with a local goods arriving at 1537 where it was allowed 5 mins to take water before leaving for High Wycombe at 1542

Finally the engine off the 1850 passenger from High Wycombe which arrived at 1923, shunted its coaches to the branch sidings then replaced the shunter that left for Slough at 1930 but primarily shunted passenger/parcels vans until leaving at  2100.

I suspect that this complexity was to allow for crew change overs and coaling of engines, but others better versed in such practices than I can probably enlighten us?

 

Cheers

Paul.

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Hi All,

I thought I would explain the operation, makeup, and how I intend to model one of my favourite trains that operated in the early 60s through Maidenhead.

This was the 0540 Reading to Princes Risborough Parcels.

 

I have always liked Parcels trains and this one is the eccentric practicality of the trains of the era at its best!

It had a good mix of vans, which I will come back to in a moment, and its U turn at Maidenhead is a delight!

 

So it started at Reading at 0540, having gathered vans arriving from a number of starting points, and arrived in the Goods line at Maidenhead c 555 where its loco detached with any vans for Maidenhead, before picking up a GUV left by an early down parcels train. It waited until the 0600 to Paddington had left the Branch platform, and then pulled forward into it. The Loco then ran round, and departed up the High Wycombe branch at 0620.

 

So from Reading the makeup was:-

 

Engine:-    (I have yet to find conclusive evidence of what was used but I am getting variety into the area’s diet of 57xx and 61xx tanks by using a 56xx tank)

Vans for Maidenhead (I am using 2, one vacuum braked 4 wheel, one WR pattern one BR pattern)

Vans for High Wycombe (I am using 3:- a fruit D, a LMS pattern vacuum braked van, and a CCT)

Vans for Aylesbury           (I am using 2:- a Mink G plus a PMV)

Van (Milk in Churns) for Aylesbury (I am using a Siphon G)

Passenger Full Brake Van for Aylesbury (I am using a Mk1 BG)

 

From Maidenhead the makeup was:-

 

Engine

Passenger Full Brake Van for Aylesbury

Van (Milk in Churns) for Aylesbury

Vans for Aylesbury

Vans for High Wycombe

GUV ex Paddington for High Wycombe

 

There is no return parcels train down the branch, so how did the vans get back to Reading?

They return to Maidenhead in ones and twos attached to branch passenger trains including the GUV that started the day at Paddington before being dropped off by a down parcels train at Maidenhead to join the 0540 parcels train to High Wycombe which ended up on to the head of the 2010 Maidenhead to Reading with an ultimate destination of Crewe via the 2030 Greenford to Birkenhead Parcels. I have yet to find out how it got back from Crewe to Paddington, but the timings suggest two vans were needed to maintain this service each running as above on alternate days!  

So the parcels vans came down the branch as follows:-

 

GUV                                 to Crewe                  Ex High Wycombe via 1850 High Wycombe to Maidenhead

Van                                  to Didcot                  Ex Aylesbury via 1825 Aylesbury to Maidenhead

Passenger Brake van    to Reading               Ex Aylesbury via 1825 Aylesbury to Maidenhead 

Van (empty Churns)     to Chippenham       Ex Aylesbury via 1642 Aylesbury to Maidenhead

 

So these are gathered at Maidenhead and returned to Reading on the 2010 Maidenhead to Reading Parcels. But only the Passenger Brake van stays at Reading ready to join the following day’s 0540 Parcels.

So the van for Didcot joins the GUV on the Birkenhead Parcels, and the Churn van joins the 2240 Paddington to Penzance parcels on its way to Chippenham.

 

So what happened to the vans from the 0540 Reading parcels not returning via the 2010 Maidenhead to Reading parcels:-

Those dropped at Maidenhead were probably picked up around 2206-2216 by the up 0842 Shrewsbury to Paddington parcels, and then returned to their starting points via various parcels trains from Paddington.

Those dropped at High Wycombe were probably returned via OOC/Paddington, and the WR main line.

Those dropped at Aylesbury were probably also returned via High Wycombe, OOC/Paddington, and the WR main line.

However, this is on the basis that their best route back to their starting point is via the WR main line Without knowing their starting points, I cannot tell whether this is a valid assumption!

 

If anyone has fact or suggestions for the items above that I do not have facts to support, please feel free to post the details.

 

Many thanks

Paul

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I like parcels trains too - for the same reasons as you.

I’m interested to know your source of Van workings: departures from Paddington I can get from the Paddington marshalling books on the BRCS website, but what about those that don’t reach Paddington?

I’m later 60s or early 70s, but a lot was common with earlier years.

Thanks, Paul.

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On ‎09‎/‎03‎/‎2020 at 20:43, 5BarVT said:

I like parcels trains too - for the same reasons as you.

I’m interested to know your source of Van workings: departures from Paddington I can get from the Paddington marshalling books on the BRCS website, but what about those that don’t reach Paddington?

I’m later 60s or early 70s, but a lot was common with earlier years.

Thanks, Paul.

Hi Paul,

My source of van workings is the "Working of Diesel Unit and Coach (Local Passenger and Parcels Trains) London Division ", which is available for a number of different years as is also similar documents for the early 70s.

They can be downloaded for free from Robert Carroll's coaching web site.

Best regards

Paul

(Tallpaul69)

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Afternoon All,

In my earlier post on the 0540 Reading to Princes Risborough Parcels, when talking about the vans returning down the Branch from Aylesbury to Maidenhead, I said:-

Stock item                      Destination              Route 

Van                                  to Didcot                  Ex Aylesbury via 1825 Aylesbury to Maidenhead

 

I should have made it clear that this van did not form part of the 0540 Reading to Princes Risborough Parcels.

 

In fact it may have started its days working from Didcot, but this requires further investigation.

We first have definite documentation of it on the 1138 Paddington to Didcot parcels, where it was noted that this must be an empty large 8 wheel van or two smaller 4 wheel vans!

This note suggests the van started there and did not come in from Didcot, although the trip from Didcot to Paddington could have formed the last part of the vans previous day's trip either late the day before or early the current day.

This van was dropped off at Maidenhead during a 1207-1212 stop. It then went up the branch on the 1506 passenger train to Aylesbury arriving at 1621. It was then swapped for the Empty Churns van, and the train left for Maidenhead at 1642.

Meanwhile the large van was loaded, and attached with the Passenger Brake Van off the 0540 parcels from Reading, to the 1825 to Maidenhead on its way to Didcot as noted above.

 

This complicated routine may just have been a way to avoid an empty van running from Paddington to Didcot and a second van then being required to get from Didcot to Aylesbury empty to form the loaded run from Aylesbury to Didcot.

I hope I have clarified rather than confused this issue?

 

Having said all this can anyone suggest what the daily load was that required a large van to run from Aylesbury to Didcot?

 

Cheers

Paul

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I hope no one is in self quarantine?

Where ever you are, perhaps a bit more on Lower Thames Yard operations will be of interest?

 

Another interesting sequence involves a class 121 railcar which on some trips combines with a trailer car and /or a parcels van.

 

The 121+ trailer arrived with the trailer leading from Slough(actually my Branch Fiddle Yard) at 0740 in the Branch platform, leaving for High Wycombe at 0747 and arriving back from High Wycombe at 0922. It then left the trailer in the branch siding.

In reality the trailer was behind the 121 and was left in the East end siding.

However I have no east end siding and it is more interesting to have the trailer visible in the branch siding.

 

Oddly, having left the trailer in the east end siding, the 121 then went and sat in the branch siding until  1245!

It then moved to the Branch platform and left at 1305 for Bourne End. It returned at 1331 and then according to the carriage working book collected a parcels van from the east end siding!

 

Those of you who are keeping up with this will have realized that early the 121 dropped its trailer into that siding, but the parcels van arrived after 0930, so can be dropped in front of the trailer!

I avoid this complication by having the parcels train that drops off the above parcels van at 1207, dropping it into the down loop siding. (in reality this siding was very short, too short for the appropriate GUV or Syphon G).

The 121 dropped the parcels van in the Branch platform, and left for Bourne end again at 1412, from whence it got back at 1437 and attached the parcels van for a trip to Aylesbury at 1506.

 

The 121 returned to Maidenhead at 1755 towing a different parcels van to the one it left with at 1506!

The 121 then dropped the parcel van (I drop it in neck of the yard sidings as it is on the opposite end of the 121 to that where the earlier parcels van was attached, but the carriage working book does not say where it was dropped!)

 

It then picked up its trailer from the Branch siding and left for Bourne End ay 1855.

It and the trailer returned as an empty diesel at 1936 running straight through to Slough (actually my Branch fiddle Yard).

So this is quite an involved working, and one that will keep me on my toes as an operator!

 

Happy modelling, and I hope you all stay healthy!

Paul 

 

 

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Good Afternoon All,

Hope everybody is ready for the next 4 months-(ish) of staying at home?

 

Little moving currently on the modelling front (I know, nothing new there!). No idea when the guys will be able to work on, baseboards, tracklaying and wiring which was planned to start c2nd April. 

 

But hopefully today sees the end of our (my) getting ready phase!

This includes home food deliveries set up for the next two weeks, work that needs doing on the paths and fences outside organized (they will have to phone me if they hit a snag-I'm not going outside while they are here!), old conservatory furniture taken away by Charity and new furniture set out, and various internet orders, ordered.

 

A bright ray is that, as much as we love the grandchildren, we have a good excuse not to turn out for grandparent duties, especially as my son is now working from home.

 

So tomorrow I can  do some planning of modelling tasks:-

Not worried if run out of any parts glues etc. just follow my normal practice and put the offending item with its parts etc. in a clearly labelled box and move on to the next item in the "to do" pile! It may well be such items put aside will wait for a long time even by my standards to get moved on.

Also, this week, next week sometime...………, might actually get to taking some pics and putting them up for you all to critique (laugh at!)

 

Meanwhile , keep safe, keep smiling, keep modelling, and above all, don't let the B.....rs get you down!!

 

Cheers

Paul 

 

 

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Hi All,

I thought that having educated (bored!) you on Parcels and Class 121 operations at Lower Thames Yard, it was the turn of something more exciting(!)

So today is the turn of the Express Passenger trains. Now there are not too many of these because the model will be of the Relief Lines and Branch, but I need a few expresses to let me run those that I particularly like and also to provide some variety.

So there will be four named expresses and four unnamed rakes, which is all I can accommodate. All the rakes will be of 5 coaches, mainly MK1s but with the occasional GWR built coach in the maroon rakes for variety.

 

The named expresses will run from the lower fiddle yard via the scenic area to the main fiddle yard and return.

The down run of one express will be timed to pass the up run of another in the scenic area. So the Down Cornish Riviera will start from the main fiddle yard and pass the Up Cathedrals Express in the scenic area. The Down Cornish Riviera ends up in the siding in the Lower fiddle yard that the Up Cathedrals Express vacated earlier, and the Up Cathedrals Express ends up in the siding that the Down Cornish Riviera vacated earlier.

 

The unnamed rakes, one chocolate and cream and one maroon in each direction will circulate from the main fiddle yard via the scenic area back to the main fiddle yard. A refinement I will get to when I have more experience of running the layout will be that the up and down unnamed rakes will swap over to increase the variety, and may venture to the lower fiddle yard!.

 

One of the tricky aspects is to compose the 5 coach unnamed rakes so that they are not too toy like, but typical of the line's expresses, whilst not peculiar to a particular train, as in 1960/2 there were still a lot of individuality  to the rakes of each train.

 

Any suggestions on this would be appreciated! 

 

Locos will be a mix of steam and Hydraulic Diesels, probably too many steamers for accuracy in the period, but again with skill at running the layout I will start to change locos on the unnamed rakes between their runs. The named rakes will always get a loco change at each end of their runs, but this will need care, as steamers reaching the buffers in the lower fiddle yard will need to be found a path between the other trains up and down the incline to get to and from the turntable which is beside one end of the main fiddle yard.

 

In the early days of running the layout the unnamed rakes will get multiple runs round the layout one after the other , although unrealistic, to create windows for shunting and dealing with the branch trains!

 

Hoe the above makes sense?

 

Keep smiling

Best regards

Paul 

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Hi All,

Decided I really ought to get stuck into my "to do" list which every day seems to get longer. Combined with my "I'll do it when I get a moment" list, well I need a pile of the old fashioned fan fold computer paper to keep track of it all!

So today I'm tackling one item from each list:-

 

I spent the morning sorting out a couple of boxes of kits and part builds that I reckon last saw light of day five years back.

I discovered that while I'd been methodical and packed each part build in the same box as its bag with the parts left to use, I had a bit of a mix of Manufacturers.

There was a good pile of Coopercraft but also some Parkside and even 3 Ks!. So I have now listed all the kits, checked I've got all the parts to complete and decide where I am going to upgrade, particularly buffers and brake gear. Fortunately I have two oblong Quality Street tins full of the little bags of wagon bits that you used to buy for 50p a time, so I hope I have most of the bits I need.

I have also included in my list what needs doing to each so that if it is some time before I get to doing any of them, I know what I need to do to each

 

The Ks were a mixed bag; a 17ft 6in van, a SR Parcels van, but the best by far, a GW Syphon C which is definitely going to be finished. But I do need to research when these were scrapped, however, if earlier than 1960/2, I feel an application of Rule 1 coming on!

 

The more priority job, is to finish off sorting my Shell tankers. I need to get out my copy of Tourret's masterpiece and finally decide on the composition of the train from Shellhaven that bought a Class 31 through Maidenhead in 1960/2.  

I hope I have enough of the right livery for the time to have a 12 tank train (plus a spacing open wagon each end and  ER numbered BR 20 ton brake). If there are any spare I will include a couple in one of my High Wycombe branch pick up freights. Quite a few of what I have are weathered so they will be first choice if the right livery, although I will include the odd clean wagon.

 

I hope everyone is feeling well enough to be making progress with their modelling, or just enjoying running their layout?

 

Take care

Paul

 

 

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OOPs! In my last post I referred to a Ks Syphon C.

Silly boy, it was a syphon F!

 

I realized this when I fell over the long running thread here on RM on Ks products. Unfortunately, the posts on the same thread confirmed my fear that these vans died out in the mid 50s. It also told me, which I didn't want to hear that the kit was both inaccurate and a bit of a bad lot particularly in the bogie department.

So, having decided I like the van as a change from loads of Syphon Gs, I will have to see if I can find the correct white metal bogies, ignore the length errors, and invoke Rule 1 to run it in 1960/2!

 

My other point yesterday about Shell tankers is on the road to being solved.

When I said "Shell", what I really meant was "Shell-Mex and B.P.", because from 1932 to 1976 the two companies shared their distribution and tanks bore both logos.  So my nice silver tankers with SHELL in large Red letters right down the sides are not right for 1960/2! 

Hopefully I have sufficient tanks with the dual logos on, tomorrow we may find out.

 

I hope all your current modelling works are going well?

Best regards

Paul 

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17 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

OOPs! In my last post I referred to a Ks Syphon C.

Silly boy, it was a syphon F!

 

I realized this when I fell over the long running thread here on RM on Ks products. Unfortunately, the posts on the same thread confirmed my fear that these vans died out in the mid 50s. It also told me, which I didn't want to hear that the kit was both inaccurate and a bit of a bad lot particularly in the bogie department.

So, having decided I like the van as a change from loads of Syphon Gs, I will have to see if I can find the correct white metal bogies, ignore the length errors, and invoke Rule 1 to run it in 1960/2!

 

My other point yesterday about Shell tankers is on the road to being solved.

When I said "Shell", what I really meant was "Shell-Mex and B.P.", because from 1932 to 1976 the two companies shared their distribution and tanks bore both logos.  So my nice silver tankers with SHELL in large Red letters right down the sides are not right for 1960/2! 

Hopefully I have sufficient tanks with the dual logos on, tomorrow we may find out.

 

I hope all your current modelling works are going well?

Best regards

Paul 

Paul, I wouldn't worry about the length too much. It's a nice moulding and looks the part to me.

 

Bogie-wise you might find this useful. I cobbled it up a few years ago from various sources on RMweb. Caveat - I did no primary research so it might all be a load of rubbish.

 

Siphon F bogies and withdrawal dates.doc

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4 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Paul, I wouldn't worry about the length too much. It's a nice moulding and looks the part to me.

 

Bogie-wise you might find this useful. I cobbled it up a few years ago from various sources on RMweb. Caveat - I did no primary research so it might all be a load of rubbish.

 

Siphon F bogies and withdrawal dates.doc 20 kB · 4 downloads

Thanks for the reassurance,

I can't get the download to work at present, but I'm sure it will be useful when I do!

 

Further on yesterdays subject of the Shell tankers, thankfully I find that I have 10 of the 12 I need in appropriate livery. The other two I can get by amending the logos on two BP tanks I have to say BP at one end and Shell at the other instead of 4 BP logos!

 

In an earlier post I explained how I was going to run some expresses over the relief lines. I have now worked through my 1961 WTT for the down line and plan to run the following expresses:-

The Diesel Pullman, will run two return trips per day between the Lower fiddle yard and the main fiddle yard. Once in the Bristol Pullman slot and once in the South wales Pullman slot. For variety I will occasionally replace the diesel Pullman with a steam hauled Pullman set.

As I said earlier the, the  Cornish Riviera and the Cathedrals expresses will run from the Main fiddle yard to the lower fiddle yard and reverse, passing in the Scenic area of the layout. When I get to do the up timetabling I may need to adjust the times slightly to fall in with the above, but trains can always be running late, can't they?

 

I also talked about having two express sets in each direction running round and round representing different trains at different times because they will not have any coach labels. I have now sorted out 7 trains each that they can represent. The actual trains vary in destination, chosen to space the runs out through the day.

Next will be to see how this works out for the up two express sets.

 

When I get used to running the layout there will always be opportunity to swap the up and down sets via crossovers at the ends of the main fiddle yard in order to increase the variety.

What I have yet to do with the down sets timings is to see how they fit with the real running on the Relief line of the down local and branch; passenger, parcels, and freight trains.

For instance the 0905 Paddington to Bristol which will be represented by the initial run round of my first round and round set is due through Maidenhead at 0933 and the 0835 Staff Paddington to Reading West train is due into Maidenhead at 0934 to 0936. Fine if the express is on the Mainline and the Staff on the relief line, but not so if they are both on the Relief line! (bearing in mind I will be running at half time to real time so one minute on the layout will only be a real 30 seconds! )

So I will probably run the Express a few minutes late -always!!

 

I hope the above is of interest?

 

Keep modelling and keep smiling

Cheers

Paul

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6 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

I can't get the download to work at present, but I'm sure it will be useful when I do!

That's odd, it's just a Word file. Here's the full text - I don't think I'm breaching any copyright as the information is (was? Some of it is quite old) already on RMweb. If I am then, then the mods can remove it:

 

Siphon F bogies and withdrawal dates

 

From RM Web (various authors)

 

These were fitted with 9' volute bogies when built in 1906 but did have the American type later. They also may have had the 7' plate type at some time too.

 

From the Slinn & Clarke volume:
1545 and 1547 were fitted with 7' heavy bogies in Spt 1929
1544, 1546 and 1548 were fitted with 9' American bogies, probably in May 1916.

 

Condemned/Withdrawl dates:
1543 Jan 1946
1544 Jun 1948
1545 Aug 1953
1546 Feb 1956
1547 Dec 1954
1548 Sep 1955

1543 branded "TO WORK BETWEEN MILFORD HAVEN AND PADDINGTON ONLY" Sep 1929
1545 branded Calne & Newcastle Aug 1950
1548 branded Calne & Newcastle Sep 1950

A photo of 1546 "...in BR days..." shows a central panel covering the top half of the louvres between the two inner doors with the text
TO WORK BETWEEN
CALNE AND
NEWCASTLE
VIA BANBURY

Siphon F bogies and withdrawal dates.docx

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13 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

That's odd, it's just a Word file. Here's the full text - I don't think I'm breaching any copyright as the information is (was? Some of it is quite old) already on RMweb. If I am then, then the mods can remove it:

 

Siphon F bogies and withdrawal dates

 

From RM Web (various authors)

 

These were fitted with 9' volute bogies when built in 1906 but did have the American type later. They also may have had the 7' plate type at some time too.

 

From the Slinn & Clarke volume:
1545 and 1547 were fitted with 7' heavy bogies in Spt 1929
1544, 1546 and 1548 were fitted with 9' American bogies, probably in May 1916.

 

Condemned/Withdrawl dates:
1543 Jan 1946
1544 Jun 1948
1545 Aug 1953
1546 Feb 1956
1547 Dec 1954
1548 Sep 1955

1543 branded "TO WORK BETWEEN MILFORD HAVEN AND PADDINGTON ONLY" Sep 1929
1545 branded Calne & Newcastle Aug 1950
1548 branded Calne & Newcastle Sep 1950

A photo of 1546 "...in BR days..." shows a central panel covering the top half of the louvres between the two inner doors with the text
TO WORK BETWEEN
CALNE AND
NEWCASTLE
VIA BANBURY

Siphon F bogies and withdrawal dates.docx 12.71 kB · 2 downloads

Many thanks for the above.

 

I will work up a Rule 1 scenario for 1546 surviving until 1962 and make up a panel for the branding.

Then I need to adjust the scenario to explain why the van was in the Maidenhead area!.

Maybe the easiest is that it missed its return slot from Newcastle due to delay in unloading so came back via the East Coast mainline, the North London line and a parcels train west!

 

Best regards

Paul

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If it survived until 1962 it could easily have been transferred to other work.  Brand it for something via Maidenhead.

:-)

Paul.

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1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

If it survived until 1962 it could easily have been transferred to other work.  Brand it for something via Maidenhead.

:-)

Paul.

True,

It might even have been transferred to the engineers, or enparts!

However I think I would be pushing things a bit to paint it in the Satlink livery for the 1990/2 era on my layout!

 

Cheers

Paul:laugh_mini:

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Trying to get back to modelling and planning...….

 

I have now done the planning of the  Up version of the Down expresses I posted about a few days ago. I won't bore you with the details, but it seemed to work. Just need to sort the consists for the four sets.

 

Another set of passenger workings I have started on is what I call the intermediate workings. These comprise the Paddington to Reading, Newbury, Didcot, Swindon, and Oxford trains that I suppose now we might term "Outer Suburban".

They were in the main corridor sets whose engines were Halls, with the occasional 61xx.

I have to decide whether to portray these by up and down round and round trains, main fiddle yard to lower fiddle yard and return trains, or a mixture of the two!

I intend to use my Collett and Hawksworth coaches so the trains will be mainly maroon with the odd Mk1s in blood and custard or chocolate and cream to give a bit of livery variety.

I have to also decide whether to include the one or two trains that started from Westbury and Frome but didn't always work directly back to those points. 

Parcels trains are another area to work up, there being local Paddington to Reading/Didcot/Oxford runs and longer distance ones. I need to remember that there was an evening parcels from Shrewsbury to Paddington that picked up vans from Maidenhead so is worth including.

 

The main problem with all these types of train is fiddle yard capacity, not availability of locos and stock.

 

There will be more on these topics later, but a parting question:-

 

The morning Reading to Slough fish, as the fish vans were passenger rated stock rather than goods rated, would it have had a passenger brake van or a toad?

 

Keep smiling,

Only another x weeks (where x varies from 12 to 26 depending on who you listen to!), to go!!

 

Cheers

Paul 

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15 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

The morning Reading to Slough fish, as the fish vans were passenger rated stock rather than goods rated, would it have had a passenger brake van or a toad?

What class of train is it? If it is class C then almost certainly a passenger brake van. If a D or higher then almost certainly a Toad.

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7 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

What class of train is it? If it is class C then almost certainly a passenger brake van. If a D or higher then almost certainly a Toad.

The Fish is a class C.

So the next question is what sort of passenger Brake would have been used?

I am not sure if any fish would have been carried, but in some texts the train is referred to as a Fish and parcels train so parcels could have been carried.

 

I have another related set of questions:-

In 1959, before the closure of Reading SR Station, there was a parcels (?) bay at the eastern end of Reading Station.

On page 82 of " Through the Links at Southall and Old Oak Common" there is a picture taken from the approaching 1.15 Paddington to Weston Super Mare (due to pass Reading 1.48) of a Hall (presumably the Reading East End Pilot) on vans ready to pull them out of this bay. The text describes the bay as a Fish Dock and says they were to be attached to the 12.00 Oxford to Paddington Parcels (at Reading 1.36-2.00).

 

My questions:-

1) What traffic was handled in this bay

2) What sort of vans were used?

From what I can see of the vans, which are partly hidden by the Hall, they appear to be BGs?

3) The 12.00 parcels from Oxford was a Hall job? Might the Hall in the pic be the train engine rather than my first idea of the Reading east end pilot?

4) A likely candidate for bringing the vans to Reading is the 06.45 Paddington to Reading parcels, but this arrives at Reading at 10.04, which only allows 2 hours or so for unloading, so is this reasonable?

 

Many thanks for any thoughts?

 

Best regards

Paul 

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13 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

The Fish is a class C.

So the next question is what sort of passenger Brake would have been used?

Probably a full brake. In the RTR domain a BR Mk1 or a GWR Hawksworth would do.

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18 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

The Fish is a class C.

So the next question is what sort of passenger Brake would have been used?

I am not sure if any fish would have been carried, but in some texts the train is referred to as a Fish and parcels train so parcels could have been carried.

 

I have another related set of questions:-

In 1959, before the closure of Reading SR Station, there was a parcels (?) bay at the eastern end of Reading Station.

On page 82 of " Through the Links at Southall and Old Oak Common" there is a picture taken from the approaching 1.15 Paddington to Weston Super Mare (due to pass Reading 1.48) of a Hall (presumably the Reading East End Pilot) on vans ready to pull them out of this bay. The text describes the bay as a Fish Dock and says they were to be attached to the 12.00 Oxford to Paddington Parcels (at Reading 1.36-2.00).

 

My questions:-

1) What traffic was handled in this bay

2) What sort of vans were used?

From what I can see of the vans, which are partly hidden by the Hall, they appear to be BGs?

3) The 12.00 parcels from Oxford was a Hall job? Might the Hall in the pic be the train engine rather than my first idea of the Reading east end pilot?

4) A likely candidate for bringing the vans to Reading is the 06.45 Paddington to Reading parcels, but this arrives at Reading at 10.04, which only allows 2 hours or so for unloading, so is this reasonable?

 

Many thanks for any thoughts?

 

Best regards

Paul 

Paul

 

I don't know whether it will help, I have just emailed you with the Reading station platform book for 1944 (kindly supplied to me by Brian McDermott).

 

Nick

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I hope tomorrow to post my setup for Parcels workings on Lower Thames Yard in 1960/2.

 

However, first I need to work out how a total of 4 parcels sets can represent six local and four long distance parcels trains. On top of this I need a siding on the Lower Fiddle Yard for the overnight storage of the inbound 8.10 pm Maidenhead to Reading Parcels to form the outbound 0540 Reading to Princes Risborough Parcels.

Other key parcels will be the 0720 Reading to Slough Fish and a daily inbound and outbound Milk Tanks.

The returning Fish vans remain a problem, with only the 3,20 am Acton to Reading West class H listed in the Marshalling Instructions as allowed to pick up from Slough, Taplow, and Maidenhead.

I have yet to investigate possible attachments to passenger workings or the marshalling instructions for trains heading out of the London Division!

 

Best regards

Paul 

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21 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

I hope tomorrow to post my setup for Parcels workings on Lower Thames Yard in 1960/2.

 

However, first I need to work out how a total of 4 parcels sets can represent six local and four long distance parcels trains. On top of this I need a siding on the Lower Fiddle Yard for the overnight storage of the inbound 8.10 pm Maidenhead to Reading Parcels to form the outbound 0540 Reading to Princes Risborough Parcels.

Other key parcels will be the 0720 Reading to Slough Fish and a daily inbound and outbound Milk Tanks.

The returning Fish vans remain a problem, with only the 3,20 am Acton to Reading West class H listed in the Marshalling Instructions as allowed to pick up from Slough, Taplow, and Maidenhead.

I have yet to investigate possible attachments to passenger workings or the marshalling instructions for trains heading out of the London Division!

 

Best regards

Paul 

Hi All,

Here is my promised details on Local Parcels trains for Lower Thames Yard:-

 

The parcels trains on Lower Thames Yard will be represented by 4 sets of vans with the following exceptions:-

1)The 0540 Reading to Princes Risborough and the 2010 Maidenhead to Reading which will have their own dedicated set. While they travel up the branch as a set in the morning, they return down the branch individually attached to the various afternoon passenger trains.

2) The 0720 Reading to Slough Fish vans will be represented by 5 vans which travel from the lower fiddle yard in the morning entering the Branch fiddle yard clockwise. They return individually attached to part fitted or unfitted freights.

3) There will be an up and a down milk tanker train representing the several milk trains in each direction on the WR Main line.

 

As there are 6down  “Local” parcels trains and 5 up ones in a day, plus a number of “Long Distance” parcels trains in each direction the sets will make several trips round the layout. Some trips will be round and round trips, while other trips will be to/from the Lower fiddle yard from/to the Main fiddle yard.

 

When sets arrive at the Lower fiddle yard they will be positioned in the siding at the operators side of the  yard so that some vans can be swapped with other vans waiting in the kickback sidings off the front siding. The aim will be as far as possible to perform the swap without manual intervention by use of the Lower fiddle yard shunter.

 

The Parcels Trains

Down

0430 Paddington – Westbury

This leaves the Main fiddle yard clockwise to visit Lower Thames Yard down relief loop between 0510 and 0515 to drop off a GUV that will travel up the branch at 0620 on the 0540 Reading to Princes Risborough parcels when it reverses from the up relief to the Branch.

This set then travels down to the Lower fiddle yard to have its consist changed as described above.

 

0533 Paddington – Oxford

This leaves the Main fiddle yard clockwise to pass through the down relief line at Lower Thames Yard at 0620 and continues round the layout back to the Main fiddle yard to appear later as another working

 

0645 Paddington – Reading

This leaves the Main fiddle yard clockwise to visit Lower Thames Yard down loop between 0924 and 0928.

This set then travels down to the Lower fiddle yard to have its consist changed as described above.

 

 

1122 Reading – Paddington

This the first up through parcels of the day starts from the Lower fiddle yard and uses the revised consist of the 0430 train above. It visits the up relief loop at Lower Thames Yard between 1144 and 1150 and then travels anticlockwise round the layout to the Main fiddle yard to appear later as another working.

 

1130 Paddington - Didcot

The above 0533 train consist reappears clockwise from the Main fiddle yard and visits Lowe Thames Yard down relief line loop between 1207 and 1212.

This set then travels down to the Lower fiddle yard to have its consist changed as described above.

 

1155 Oxford to Paddington

This up parcels starts from the Lower fiddle yard and uses the revised consist of the 1130 train above. It visits the up relief loop at Lower Thames Yard between 1425 and 1450 and then travels anticlockwise round the layout to the Main fiddle yard to appear later as another working.

 

1230 West London – Didcot

The above 1122 train consist reappears clockwise from the Main fiddle yard to pass through the down relief line at Lower Thames Yard at 1454. This set then travels down to the Lower fiddle yard to have its consist changed as described above.

 

1233 Newbury – Kensington

This up parcels starts from the Lower fiddle yard and uses the revised consist of the 0645 train above. It passes through the up relief line at Lower Thames Yard at 1333 then travels anticlockwise round the layout to the Main fiddle yard to appear later as another working.

 

1905 Reading – Paddington

The above 1155 train consist reappears anticlockwise from the Main fiddle yard and visits Lower Thames Yard up relief line loop between 1927 and 1925 then travels anticlockwise round the layout to the Main fiddle yard to appear later as another working.

 

2040 Paddington – Reading

This leaves the Main fiddle yard clockwise to visit Lower Thames Yard down relief loop between 2215 and 2218 to attach a GUV that has travelled down the branch on a local passenger train.

This set then travels down to the Lower fiddle yard to have its consist changed as described above

 

2300 Oxford – Paddington

This up parcels starts from the Lower fiddle yard and uses the revised consist of the 2040 train above. It passes through the up relief line at Lower Thames Yard at 0015 then travels anticlockwise round the layout to the Main fiddle yard to appear later as another working, this time clockwise.

 

In balances in the above workings will be absorbed by adjustments to the Long Distance parcels train workings but I think the above is enough detail for one posting, so I will leave the details of the long distance parcels workings for a later post.

 

Enjoy your modelling and stay safe!

Cheers

Paul

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