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Hi All,

Havn't got to write a full blown post today, partly because a few household matters have got in the way, but also because the post this morning delivered a book  from ebay and I've spent some time digesting its contents.

The book is a copy of BR Western Region Passenger Train Working for Paddington station 10/09/62 to 16/07/63

 

This book gives me a better picture of what happens to the train stock arriving at Paddington and how the stock for the outward trains was provided.

 

This will allow me to as realistically as possible align the incoming and outgoing mainline stock on the model to what happened in real life. I had data from the local carriage working book for the local passenger trains but not the mainline ones.

 

Hope everyone is staying safe and well,

 

Best regards

Paul  

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Earlier, you asked about what traffic would justify using a large van from Aylesbury to Didcot. My recollection is that there was a large printing works at Aylesbury (owned by BPCC, part of 'Captain Bob's' empire). Amongst other things, they printed 'Reader's Digest' and 'Radio Times', which were distributed by rail; traffic for stations on the WCML went to Bletchley, whilst I would imagine Didcot would serve a similar purpose for WR stations.

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20 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Earlier, you asked about what traffic would justify using a large van from Aylesbury to Didcot. My recollection is that there was a large printing works at Aylesbury (owned by BPCC, part of 'Captain Bob's' empire). Amongst other things, they printed 'Reader's Digest' and 'Radio Times', which were distributed by rail; traffic for stations on the WCML went to Bletchley, whilst I would imagine Didcot would serve a similar purpose for WR stations.

Thanks Brian,

Brian's post brings me nicely back to the subject of Parcels trains:-

Having previously detailed the local parcels trains I intend to portray, today it is the turn of the long distance parcels.

 

Initially, space will probably dictate that it is sensible to cater mainly for those that used the Relief Lines at Maidenhead, and then to maybe add one or two more off the Main Lines!

So these are the initial workings I will model:-

 

2140 Parcels Shrewsbury to Paddington (due 0450)

This train starts from the Lower Fiddle Yard and passes anticlockwise through Lower Thames Yard on the relief line at 0401, then proceeds into the Main Fiddle Yard where it is held for a future working .(0855 Parcels Fishguard to Paddington)

 

0505 Parcels Paddington to Bristol

This train starts from the Main fiddle yard and passes clockwise to  Lower Thames Yard on the Relief Line at 0538. It then proceeds round the layout back to the Main Fiddle Yard to await a later working..(2025 Parcels Paddington to Cardiff)

 

1440 Milk Empties Wood Lane to Plymouth

This train starts from the Mail Fiddle Yard and pauses in the down relief loop at Lower Thames Yard between 1546 and 1604. In reality this train paused in the Maidenhead Goods Line, but in my world Lower Thames Yard has no Goods Line! the train then moves on to the Lower Fiddle Yard where it is shunted to form an Up working.

 

1145 Parcels Dr. Days Junc.to Old Oak Common (1745)

This train starts from the Lower Fiddle Yard and passes through Lower Thames Yard on the Relief Line at 1646 before passing clockwise to the Main Fiddle Yard  where it waits for a later working. .(1145 Parcels Dr. Days Junc. to Old Oak Common)

 

0830 Milk Whitland to Kensington

This train using the revised consist from the 1440 Milk Empties starts from the Lower Fiddle Yard , passes Lower Thames Yard at 1650 on the  Relief Line and passes anticlockwise round the layout to reach the Main Fiddle Yard where it waits for the following days 1440 Milk Empties.

 

2025 Parcels Paddington to Cardiff

This train starts clockwise from the Main Fiddle Yard using the stock from the earlier 0505 working and passes Lower Thames Yard on the Relief Line at 2102, It then proceeds to the Lower Fiddle Yard for shunting and to wait for a later working.

 

0855 Parcels Fishguard to Paddington(2132)

This train starts from the Lower Fiddle Yard using the shunted stock from the previous days 2240 Parcels Paddington to Penzance working and passes Lower Thames Yard on the relief Line at 2046 before passing anticlockwise into the Main Fiddle Yard to await a later working. (This train reverses to form the 2137 Parcels Paddington to Penzance)

 

2137 Parcels Paddington to Penzance

This train starts from the Main Fiddle Yard clockwise passing through Lower Thames Yard on the Relief Line at 2224 and passes down to the Lower Fiddle Yard where it is shunted and sorted to be available for a return working.

 

2240 Parcels to Penzance

This train starts from the Main Fiddle Yard clockwise passing through Lower Thames Yard on the Relief Line at 2316 and passes clockwise round to the Main Fiddle Yard where it waits for a later working. (Next day)

 

0842 Parcels Shrewsbury to Paddington(2358)

This train starts from the Lower Fiddle Yard using the shunted stock from the ??? and arrives at Lower Thames Yard up relief Line loop at 2206 where it shunts to pick up vans until 2225 before passing anticlockwise into the Main Fiddle Yard to await a later working.

 

This set of workings will require further work to minimize the number of carriage sets needed. 

 

Enjoy your modelling

Stay safe

Cheers

Paul

 

 

 

 

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Just a few clarifications from yesterdays post:-

 

1) The times shown in brackets after the destination in the headings of the up trains is the arrival time. I added the word "due" in front of the time against the first up train and then forgot to do the same for the others!

2)  I forgot to amend in the description of the last up train (0842 Shrewsbury to Paddington), the reference to the time of the preceding train this set was used for from ????. Should read " earlier 2025".

 

Today I have started a set of Train time table graphs to help sort out  the use of the Lower and Main Fiddle Yard sidings.

Don't hold your breath waiting for an update, this job will take me several days on and off as I find I can only do so much at a time before mistakes creep in!

 

So will post on something else tomorrow, what remains to be seen, might be the earlier in the week promised pic of the modelling tray...….

 

Just heard the Corona Virus losses are about the same today as yesterday, so maybe something is trending in the right direction? We can but hope!

 

Cheers

Paul

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Hi All,

Having spent two quite long posts on the Local and Long Distance Parcels around Lower Thams Yard, I thought I would finish this topic off by discussing the Diesel Parcels Vans:-

 

Before 1960 when there were only two Diesel Parcels Vans on the (G)WR, the only time they ventured on a regular basis through Maidenhead was on a Saturday return trip to Reading.

 

With the advent of the new generation of Diesel Parcels Vans they took several trips along the Thames Valley.

 

According to my 10th September 1962 Passenger Train Workings Paddington Station the details are as follows:-

The Unit left Southall Depot at 0235 to run an early morning trip to  Hayes at 0255, returning from there at 0355, due into Paddington at 0415, ready for a 0430 departure.

This 0430 trip was to Maidenhead towing two vans.

The first, a GUV was destined for High Wycombe and replaced the one previously attached to the 0430 Paddington to Westbury Parcels which by autumn 1962 was retimed to 0418.

The second attached van was a BG for Windsor, detached at Slough, that formerly was attached to the 0530 Parcels departure.

The Diesel Parcels Van returned from Maidenhead at 0525 arriving at Paddington at 0605.

 

This unit took another trip along the Thames Valley, this time to Reading departing at 0715. This returned as the 0948 from Reading due back at Paddington at 1150.

The units next trip was to Colnbrook so did not trouble Maidenhead. It left Colnbrook at 1352, and arrived back at Paddington at 1439, to take out a 1500 trip to High Wycombe.

 

The 1500 trip to High Wycombe appears not to have a direct return to Paddington but instead returned to Southall.

It left Southall at 1955 reaching Paddington at 2012 to form a trip to Windsor leaving at 2120

and then ran empty back to Southall.

 

So this unit was used quite intensively round a 24 period.

 

If I choose to model its trips to Maidenhead and Reading, I will need to modify my 0430 Westbury Parcels.

However, a notice TT82 dated 8th October 1962 suggests that the 1500 trip to High Wycombe was short lived as it is cancelled in the notice.

 

I will update further on this as more information is found.

 

Best regards

Paul

 

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8 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Hi All,

Having spent two quite long posts on the Local and Long Distance Parcels around Lower Thams Yard, I thought I would finish this topic off by discussing the Diesel Parcels Vans:-

 

Before 1960 when there were only two Diesel Parcels Vans on the (G)WR, the only time they ventured on a regular basis through Maidenhead was on a Saturday return trip to Reading.

 

With the advent of the new generation of Diesel Parcels Vans they took several trips along the Thames Valley.

 

According to my 10th September 1962 Passenger Train Workings Paddington Station the details are as follows:-

The Unit left Southall Depot at 0235 to run an early morning trip to  Hayes at 0255, returning from there at 0355, due into Paddington at 0415, ready for a 0430 departure.

This 0430 trip was to Maidenhead towing two vans.

The first, a GUV was destined for High Wycombe and replaced the one previously attached to the 0430 Paddington to Westbury Parcels which by autumn 1962 was retimed to 0418.

The second attached van was a BG for Windsor, detached at Slough, that formerly was attached to the 0530 Parcels departure.

The Diesel Parcels Van returned from Maidenhead at 0525 arriving at Paddington at 0605.

 

This unit took another trip along the Thames Valley, this time to Reading departing at 0715. This returned as the 0948 from Reading due back at Paddington at 1150.

The units next trip was to Colnbrook so did not trouble Maidenhead. It left Colnbrook at 1352, and arrived back at Paddington at 1439, to take out a 1500 trip to High Wycombe.

 

The 1500 trip to High Wycombe appears not to have a direct return to Paddington but instead returned to Southall.

It left Southall at 1955 reaching Paddington at 2012 to form a trip to Windsor leaving at 2120

and then ran empty back to Southall.

 

So this unit was used quite intensively round a 24 period.

 

If I choose to model its trips to Maidenhead and Reading, I will need to modify my 0430 Westbury Parcels.

However, a notice TT82 dated 8th October 1962 suggests that the 1500 trip to High Wycombe was short lived as it is cancelled in the notice.

 

I will update further on this as more information is found.

 

Best regards

Paul

 

What sort of unit was that Paul?

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12 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

What sort of unit was that Paul?

Hi,

It was a Gloucester RC&W Motor Parcels van, (W55991-6) later known as class 128.

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Hi All,

For a change, I thought in this post, I would run through some of the trains on the High Wycombe Branch.

 

So image we have managed to crawl out of bed bright and early on a summers morning in 1960/2.

We manage by 06.00 to get to our line side position by the branch as it leaves the yard and we have a good view of the stretch of line up to the first overbridge.

Even if we can't hear them , we will have a good idea when the trains are coming by the fall of the down starter just in front of the overbridge or the up Home junction just opposite our position.

 

At 6.12 the first movement is a 61xx light engine proceeding along the branch to haul the 07.30 suburban train from Bourne End to Paddington.

We then don't have long to wait as at 06.20 the 5 vans of the Reading to Princes Risborough Parcels pass by hauled by another 61xx.

We will have nearly an hour and a half to wait for the first train off the branch which is the above mentioned 07.30 from Bourne End.

Meanwhile, at 0638 we see our first passenger train of the day, the 06.20 Slough to High Wycombe local of 3 suburban coaches hauled by yet another Slough  61xx!

Peace then descends until 07.42 when the 07.30 from Bourne End passes. It is also a 3 coach train but whereas the earlier train was of BR non corridor stock, this is a mixture of BR and Collett coaches.

We have not long to wait for the next train and soon hear the growl of a DMU. What rattles by at 07.48, forming the 07.25 Slough to High Wycombe, is a class 121 single car DMU hauling a single ended Driving Trailer. We will see more of the 121, with and without its trailer through the day.

 

Next to appear, just before 08.20 is the 07.50 High Wycombe to Slough service. This is the return journey of the above 06.20 Slough to High Wycombe train.

 

Further 3 car, 61xx hauled trains pass at 0837 to Princes Risborough and at 0853 from Aylesbury.

 

After another half an hours we then get some variety as the DMU and Trailer return at 0920, followed at 0943 by the light engine 61xx off Reading to Princes Risborough Parcels heading for Slough Shed and then at 0947 we have the first freight of the day as the run from Slough to the Hinckley Yard at Oxford appears. This is a mixed train of some 15 wagons and a Toad pulled by a 56xx 0-6-2, which is finding the slope up to the overbridge a bit of a test!

 

Just before 1025 the Marlow Donkey, 14xx and trailer, appears on one of its runs through to Maidenhead. It returns at 1040, which has to be on time as two minutes later the pick up freight from Taplow to Thomas' siding is due through. As this is usually only some 5 empty wagons these days, it is light work if the 57xx hauling it is on song and with a keen driver it might charge after the Donkey which stops at Cookham whereas the freight did not!

 

Nothing much happens for the rest of the morning, just a couple more runs each way for the Donkey.

 

So we will pause our observations for today and pick up again starting with a couple of runs of the 121 (without trailer!)  in the early afternoon, on another occasion.

 

I hope every one is well?

The weather here is first class-sun all day so far although the wind catches you out occasionally by still being cool.

 

Stay safe, and enjoy your modelling.

Best regards

Paul

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Good Afternoon All,

Had intended to post the second half of the High Wycombe Branch trains this afternoon but there will not be time.

It is our eldest granddaughters 9th birthday today. Normally we would have had a family party yesterday, but obviously that is not possible.

So we had to make do with a couple of 6 way Zoom sessions over lunch today.

Not sure her presents are going to help with the lockdown situation as both sets of Grandparents clubbed together to buy her a Hover Board and her parents bought her a new Bike!

Just hoping that by the time of our grandson's (her brother) birthday on 31st August we will be able to have a bigger than usual outside Party!!

 

In a while got to do our phone calls to other relatives, particularly the older ones, who don't have the technology to use Zoom.

 

So, take care, stay safe, and keep modelling!

Cheers

Paul

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Hi All,

For a change today I thought I would explain my three favourite parcels trains on the early 1960s WR Main line:-

Firstly:-

0540 Reading to Princes Risborough Parcels (reversing at Maidenhead 0553-0620) The makeup of the train is as follows:                                                                                                                                                                                           Real train                                                                My Model                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                a) Reading to Maidenhead                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Engine                                                                      Engine                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Vans Maidenhead                                                    2 Vans Maidenhead                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Vans  High Wycombe                                               Van High Wycombe                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Vans Aylesbury                                                          Van Aylesbury                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Van  (Milk in Churns)                                                Van (Milk in Churns)  (Chippenham – Aylesbury)                                                                                                                                                                                                                  (Chippenham – Aylesbury)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Brake Van  Aylesbury                                                Brake Van Aylesbury                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       b) Maidenhead onwards                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Engine                                                                       Engine                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Brake Van  Aylesbury                                             Brake Van Aylesbury                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Van  (Milk in Churns)                                              Van (Milk in Churns)  (Chippenham – Aylesbury)                                                                                                                                                                                                                          (Chippenham – Aylesbury)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Vans Aylesbury                                                         Van Aylesbury                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Vans  High Wycombe                                               Van High Wycombe                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      GUV Paddington – High Wycombe                        GUV (Paddington – High Wycombe)

 

Then there is the:-

0720 Reading to Slough Fish (calling at Maidenhead (0753-0810)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Brake Van (Oxford-Slough)                                      Brake Van (Oxford-Slough)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Vans (Maidenhead )                                                   2 vans (Maidenhead)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Vans (Taplow)                                                            Van (Taplow)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Vans (Slough)                                                              2 (Vans Slough)

 

And Finally the:-

2010 Maidenhead to Reading Parcels                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               (W) GUV (Crewe)                                                        (W) GUV (Crewe)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            (V)  Van (Didcot)                                                         (V)  Van (Didcot)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             (V)  Brake Van (Reading)                                           (V)  Brake Van (Reading)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              (G)  Van (Empty Churns)                                           (G)  Van (Empty Churns) .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Chippenham                                                              Chippenham                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Notes:-                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  (G) Off 1642 Aylesbury to Maidenhead                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              (V) Off 1825 Aylesbury to Maidenhead                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           (W) Off 1850 High Wycombe to Maidenhead

 

For my parcels formations I am using the following:- 

Van = long wheelbase vans, a mixture of Fruit D, CCTs (LMR/LNER), SR PMVs etc. plus a substitute of a 10ft wheelbase XP rated vacuum goods van.

Van (Churns/ empty churns)= Syphon G

Brake Van = GWR/BR origin BG

For my Fish train vans I have a set of 5 varied LNER/BR LWB fish vans and a BR 4 Wheel CCT as the Brake

 

If this is not displayed in a readable format, my apologies, I will re post it tomorrow as an attachment!

 

Hope everyone is well, and happy, and not letting the situation get them down?

Keep modelling!

Cheers

PaulHa

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14 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

All good except for one thing - a BR CCT isn't a brake van...

Fair point,

I was stretching things because I thought a short train of 10,12, and 15ft wheelbase fish wagons looked better with a short brake!

 

But thinking about it, the BR CCT, although it has windows in one door of each of its pairs of doors, doesn't have the single guards door that the BG has.

 

So I will probably use my Hawksworth BG on the fish train and then the other two trains can share a BR BG.

 

Hopefully I still have enough BGs for my other 4 parcels sets.

Might have to make one a carmine and cream, and one a LMS version

 

Take care, keep modelling

Cheers

Paul

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Hi Everyone,

I am afraid my get up and go has got up and gone today!

I guess it's because Easter weekend was for more years than I care to remember the time for our first trip out of the year, and marked the shaking off of the winter blues, but this year no chance!

 

Nearest I'll get to a trip out, was today's walk to the outskirts on our side of town of the town centre to pick up from a local specialist food store called "Natures Harvest" some Gluten Free items they had ordered for my wife.

Nice morning for a walk, but why is it that I get the feeling that it is always me who has to take the proper avoiding action when getting near to other people?

 

Normally I would get some use for myself out of such a trip by coming back via a chat (even if I didn't buy anything!) with Anthony in AGR Models, but of course as a "non essential" shop he has had to close.

 

Will try tomorrow to get a few of my "pending" wagon kits a little nearer completion, and maybe write that up on here together with a few more thoughts on trains for Lower Thames Yard.

 

Tale care, stay safe, and keep your models progressing.

Cheers

Paul   

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Good Afternoon one and all,

I am pleased to say that I have made some progress on the modelling front today.

While I didn't make much progress with completing the models in my first box of part made kits, I did this morning go through it and mark up cards for each listing what needs to be done and what parts are needed. So next time I get to that box I wont waste half a morning sorting out what needs doing on the models I can get straight on with modelling-leastways, that's the theory!

 

After lunch I wanted to write up the second part of the list of trains on the Wycombe branch. Reading through what I had written in the first part something struck me as not quite right.

I had suggested that the morning pick up goods to Thomas and Greens Paper Mill could be 5 open goods wagons. Thinking about it< I don't think that is right because what would have been loaded onto them at the mill?

So I got out my copy of the "Marlow Branch", and this suggests that the railway carried the following materials in and out of the Mill:-

Inbound:-

Coal (daily?)

Esparto Grass (periodically), some 25 sheeted wagons from Brentford Docks

Caustic Soda (tank)- again periodically

 

Outbound:-

Paper (boxed, in vans) - the main product was writing paper.

Coal empties

Open wagon empties

Caustic Soda Tanker - empty.

 

So now I need to research paper production to see what else was used on a regular basis.

It seems the coal and the resulting empties were handled by the evening Hinksey- Slough goods (I expect the empties returned north on the morning Slough to Hinksey?).

So looks like the regulars for the local pick up would be vans.

 

Looking at what was handled at Bourne End Yard, so might be on this train, I noticed there were occasional handlings of boats.

So provided I can track down (and model!!) the right sort of boat, this would make an interesting load perhaps on a bogie well wagon?

Think I will raise the two items above in the "Prototype Questions" thread and see what folk have to say?

 

Hope you are all well and staying safe

Best regards

Paul 

 

 

  

 

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Afternoon all,

My question on the prototype side has yielded some info on the inbound to the Paper Mills.

One item that I knew, but must have wrongly filed in the memory banks (forgotten!) was China Clay! so some china clay wagons can be added. The other addition is Chlorine, but as this and the Caustic Soda may have come from the north west, they could have arrived via High Wycombe.

Not much joy re the boats except a short video of small sailing boats on the Thames at Bourne End in the 20s, so will pursue that further.

 

So this brings me to a further episode of lineside observation in 1960/2 at the High Wycombe branch:-

.

In the previous episode, we got to lunch time. So having eaten our corn beef sanies,, downed our Tiza, and munched on an apple it is time for the first afternoon service, soon after 1pm.

This comprises the Class 121 car that we saw making a round trip with its trailer in the morning, but this time on it s own.

 

After this completes a couple of round trips to Bourne End it is time for the return of the Thomas and Green pick up freight.. The 57xx has found some empty box vans (too dirty inside for the Mill's paper, so returning to various places, then china clay wagons, which will go back west to Cornwall and then some more vans, these being clean inside, are full of boxed writing paper. 

The train grinds to a halt in front of us, to allow the 57xx to come off and be swapped with another 57xx that arrived from Slough at 0930 in the morning and then shunted the yard until now.

The freight is soon on its way again to Taplow.

 

Just after 3pm the Class121 sets out again, this time heading through to High Wycombe and Aylesbury, with a GUV in tow. It will be nearly 6pm before we see it return.

There is another space in activity now until at 345 we hear the strenuous noise of  a hard working tank engine. Around the bend from the main line appears a 57xx which has spent the morning at Taplow preparing this train. It is the Loudwater goods, the second of the branches daily pick up goods.

With a wide mix of opens, vans, tanks, and cattle wagons it conveys stock that has been dropped at Taplow off of the morning down freights from the London area.

After only another 10 minutes a freight appears from the opposite direction. This is hauled by a 61xx and started from Hinksey Yard south of Oxford at 9,25, This differs from the Loudwater train in having a fair number of empty and full coal wagons.

 

After this flurry of freight activity, we are surprised to see (and hear!) a LMR Class 5 approaching from the mainline with 5 Midland region coaches in tow. We realise this must be one of the many summer excursions to the area. Although the coaches are empty, it is likely that the day trippers have been deposited at Winsor and will later take a boat trip up the Thames to rejoin their train at Marlow for the journey home.

There are many of these trips on Saturdays but this weekday one is probably due to the factories in the area that the train came from being on their summer 2 week shut down.

 

All is then quiet for the next hour or so. Then the first of the evening passenger trains appears, This is a 3 coach suburban set hauled by a 61xx which we recognize as having arrived from Aylesbury in the morning. It has spent the intervening time in the Branch siding.

 

After another half an hour we hear the distant growl of a DMU and the 121 appears from the Aylesbury direction towing a GUV, but not the one it left with earlier in the afternoon.

That has been left to be loaded at Aylesbury and replaced by one taken up the branch on the morning Parcels from Reading which has been loaded during the day.

 

Reluctantly we leave the line side now to cycle home for tea, but perhaps with the long  daylight evenings we will manage to spend the evening of another day beside the branch.

 

I hope the above has entertained you and reminded you of past youthful pleasures?

Take care and stay safe,

Best regards

Paul

 

 

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Good Day one and all,

I thought today I would entertain (?) you with the workings of shunting engines at Lower Thames Yard.

 

On the face of it, there was a shunter around from 0930 until 2200, What is not apparent until you delve into the detail is that this period was covered by three different engines.

 

The first arrived LE from Slough around 0930. Theoretically, it was supposed to be a passenger shunter until 12.00 and then a goods shunter until 14.30. It then swapped with the engine that came off the Branch with the early afternoon Thomas and Green to Taplow pick up goods.

I am guessing that the splitting of the 5 hours 50% passenger, 50% goods was an accountants device to split the cost of the shunter between the two activities.

 

In reality there was not much passenger shunting to do between 0930 and 12.00, after any parcels vans off the 0645 Paddington to Reading Parcels, which was in the yard from 0924 to 0940, had been positioned.

The Formations book for this train does not show any put off or pick up from Maidenhead as a regular feature, but I apply Rule 1 here!

Included in the passenger shunting will be to move the two fish vans that arrived just before 0800 on the Oxford to Slough Fish and Parcels train from the siding beside the coal siding to the open platform beside the Goods Shed for unloading.

However, the section on the Maidenhead Pilot in the article on Maidenhead in GWRJ 36 shows that the occasional passenger shunt was interspersed with mainly goods shunting.

 

Around mid morning I send the shunter round the down relief to mimic the shunting of the west end of the real yard.

In my yard all the engine has to do is move the loaded coal wagons that are sitting in the coal siding (which is hidden behind the row of houses between the Branch and the circuit of the relief lines) into the branch fiddle yard  and place them in the empty one of the two sidings that lie between the branch line and the connection from the branch fiddle yard to the up relief line. The engine then collects the empty coal wagons from the siding next to the one it has placed the loaded wagons into and positions them to replace the loaded coal wagons in the coal siding.

The shunter may then perform other shunting in the Branch fiddle yard before returning to the junction via the up relief line.

Whether it performs shunting in the branch fiddle yard or not depends on whether I decide to have a shunter full time in that yard.

 

Next the shunter will move via the branch platform and the neck of the branch siding to the Goods Shed to position and collect vans.

This is necessary because there is not room for the Goods Shed to be in its correct position between the coal siding and the up relief loop, so I have repositioned it nearer the station, with road access from the station approach road.  

Included in the van shunting will be to move the two fish vans from being unloaded near the Goods Shed to the up Relief Loop siding to await collection by a down goods.that arrived just before

The disadvantages operationally of the Goods Shed's position is that it is single ended and rail access is limited when a set of coaches are in the branch Siding from c0910 to c1710.

I am considering storing the coaches  in the lengthened (compared to reality) down relief siding off of the down relief loop, but I currently planning to store the class 121 DMU and its trailer car there from 0940 to 1240 and also any wagons dropped off by down freights.

 

A compromise may be to swap the 121 and trailer with the coaches for storage because the 121 and trailer will occupy less room in the Branch Siding for less time than the coaches do, although the trailer would stay in the siding until c 1840!

Another advantage of the change of storage location for the coaches is that whereas it is reasonable to say that the 61xx that bought them in from Aylesbury could back them into the Branch Siding before disappearing to Slough; moving them from the Branch Platform across the up and down relief lines into the siding off the down relief loop, is a more involved and time consuming movement, more suited to a shunting engine!

Also on Mondays the train bought 2 second coaches and a Brake composite from High Wycombe. This would be too much to add to our 3 coach branch train, but I will add the brake composite and make it run every day!

This brake composite is to be held until 1444 to be added to the 1155 Oxford to Paddington Parcels, which we will pick up with later!

A better solution might be that the 61xx continues to back the coaches into the Branch Siding and that the shunting engine pick them up from there later to move them to the Down Relief Loop siding, bearing in mind that the branch junction is busy with the DMU returning to the Branch Platform at 0922, and the LE off the Reading to Princes Risborough passes the same way around 0943; while when it arrives at 0930, the shunting engine is occupied with the Down Parcels until after 0940!

 

Further small amounts of passenger shunting occur just before 1200 when the up 1122 Reading to Paddington Parcels calls between 11.44 and 11.50, and just after 1200 when the Paddington to Didcot parcels calls from 1207 to 1212, both of which I plan to involve the dropping of and picking up of one parcels van.  

 

At 1432 the Thomas and Green Pick up goods arrives off the Branch. The train pauses for 8 minutes while its engine is uncoupled and swapped for the shunting engine. I am thinking of having this action undertaken while the train is still on the branch held and protected by signals.

While this is attractive because the action occurs in full view rather than hidden behind the station buildings, I  need to look at the signaling to see what would need to be changed to allow this. I think I would need a calling on signal on the Up Branch Bracket signal, to allow the train engine to move forward off the train, but I am not sure how the shunter would be authorized to back onto the train?

Anyway, at 1440 the goods moves through the Branch Platform on to Taplow, and the original train engine moves into the yard.

As soon as the now shunting engine is out of the way the 1155 Oxford to Paddington Parcels which had detached a rear van in the Up Relief Loop while there from 1425 to 1442, moves into the station to load small parcels leaving finally at 1450 after the shunting engine adds the Brake Composite from a siding onto the Parcels train, then fetches the dropped parcel Van.

 

I think we will leave the shunter now while the driver and fireman take a breather and have a well earnt cuppa!

(think that's my cue for one as well.)

 

Take care, stay safe, and enjoy your modelling.

Best regards

Paul  

 

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6 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Good Day one and all,

I thought today I would entertain (?) you with the workings of shunting engines at Lower Thames Yard.

 

On the face of it, there was a shunter around from 0930 until 2200, What is not apparent until you delve into the detail is that this period was covered by three different engines.

 

The first arrived LE from Slough around 0930. Theoretically, it was supposed to be a passenger shunter until 12.00 and then a goods shunter until 14.30. It then swapped with the engine that came off the Branch with the early afternoon Thomas and Green to Taplow pick up goods.

I am guessing that the splitting of the 5 hours 50% passenger, 50% goods was an accountants device to split the cost of the shunter between the two activities.

 

In reality there was not much passenger shunting to do between 0930 and 12.00, after any parcels vans off the 0645 Paddington to Reading Parcels, which was in the yard from 0924 to 0940, had been positioned.

The Formations book for this train does not show any put off or pick up from Maidenhead as a regular feature, but I apply Rule 1 here!

Included in the passenger shunting will be to move the two fish vans that arrived just before 0800 on the Oxford to Slough Fish and Parcels train from the siding beside the coal siding to the open platform beside the Goods Shed for unloading.

However, the section on the Maidenhead Pilot in the article on Maidenhead in GWRJ 36 shows that the occasional passenger shunt was interspersed with mainly goods shunting.

 

Around mid morning I send the shunter round the down relief to mimic the shunting of the west end of the real yard.

In my yard all the engine has to do is move the loaded coal wagons that are sitting in the coal siding (which is hidden behind the row of houses between the Branch and the circuit of the relief lines) into the branch fiddle yard  and place them in the empty one of the two sidings that lie between the branch line and the connection from the branch fiddle yard to the up relief line. The engine then collects the empty coal wagons from the siding next to the one it has placed the loaded wagons into and positions them to replace the loaded coal wagons in the coal siding.

The shunter may then perform other shunting in the Branch fiddle yard before returning to the junction via the up relief line.

Whether it performs shunting in the branch fiddle yard or not depends on whether I decide to have a shunter full time in that yard.

 

Next the shunter will move via the branch platform and the neck of the branch siding to the Goods Shed to position and collect vans.

This is necessary because there is not room for the Goods Shed to be in its correct position between the coal siding and the up relief loop, so I have repositioned it nearer the station, with road access from the station approach road.  

Included in the van shunting will be to move the two fish vans from being unloaded near the Goods Shed to the up Relief Loop siding to await collection by a down goods.that arrived just before

The disadvantages operationally of the Goods Shed's position is that it is single ended and rail access is limited when a set of coaches are in the branch Siding from c0910 to c1710.

I am considering storing the coaches  in the lengthened (compared to reality) down relief siding off of the down relief loop, but I currently planning to store the class 121 DMU and its trailer car there from 0940 to 1240 and also any wagons dropped off by down freights.

 

A compromise may be to swap the 121 and trailer with the coaches for storage because the 121 and trailer will occupy less room in the Branch Siding for less time than the coaches do, although the trailer would stay in the siding until c 1840!

Another advantage of the change of storage location for the coaches is that whereas it is reasonable to say that the 61xx that bought them in from Aylesbury could back them into the Branch Siding before disappearing to Slough; moving them from the Branch Platform across the up and down relief lines into the siding off the down relief loop, is a more involved and time consuming movement, more suited to a shunting engine!

Also on Mondays the train bought 2 second coaches and a Brake composite from High Wycombe. This would be too much to add to our 3 coach branch train, but I will add the brake composite and make it run every day!

This brake composite is to be held until 1444 to be added to the 1155 Oxford to Paddington Parcels, which we will pick up with later!

A better solution might be that the 61xx continues to back the coaches into the Branch Siding and that the shunting engine pick them up from there later to move them to the Down Relief Loop siding, bearing in mind that the branch junction is busy with the DMU returning to the Branch Platform at 0922, and the LE off the Reading to Princes Risborough passes the same way around 0943; while when it arrives at 0930, the shunting engine is occupied with the Down Parcels until after 0940!

 

Further small amounts of passenger shunting occur just before 1200 when the up 1122 Reading to Paddington Parcels calls between 11.44 and 11.50, and just after 1200 when the Paddington to Didcot parcels calls from 1207 to 1212, both of which I plan to involve the dropping of and picking up of one parcels van.  

 

At 1432 the Thomas and Green Pick up goods arrives off the Branch. The train pauses for 8 minutes while its engine is uncoupled and swapped for the shunting engine. I am thinking of having this action undertaken while the train is still on the branch held and protected by signals.

While this is attractive because the action occurs in full view rather than hidden behind the station buildings, I  need to look at the signaling to see what would need to be changed to allow this. I think I would need a calling on signal on the Up Branch Bracket signal, to allow the train engine to move forward off the train, but I am not sure how the shunter would be authorized to back onto the train?

Anyway, at 1440 the goods moves through the Branch Platform on to Taplow, and the original train engine moves into the yard.

As soon as the now shunting engine is out of the way the 1155 Oxford to Paddington Parcels which had detached a rear van in the Up Relief Loop while there from 1425 to 1442, moves into the station to load small parcels leaving finally at 1450 after the shunting engine adds the Brake Composite from a siding onto the Parcels train, then fetches the dropped parcel Van.

 

I think we will leave the shunter now while the driver and fireman take a breather and have a well earnt cuppa!

(think that's my cue for one as well.)

 

Take care, stay safe, and enjoy your modelling.

Best regards

Paul  

 

Excellent stuff Paul. For me, this sort of thing is the essence of how we make it feel "real".

 

Last night I trawled through some recent Steam World articles about Cornwall and found about 100 more examples of which actual locos were on which actual trains on specific dates in the 1950s. Nerd or what?

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On 11/03/2020 at 12:42, Tallpaul69 said:

Robert Carroll's coaching web site.

 

Hi Paul. Have been reading your topic with interest. I copied and pasted the above direct into Google and got a life learning coach and a link to a yahoo site that is defunct. Do you have a link you can post as it sounds like a great resource. 

 

Keep safe and carry on modelling in these unusual times.

 

Best regards

 

John

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1 hour ago, Fishplate said:

Hi Paul. Have been reading your topic with interest. I copied and pasted the above direct into Google and got a life learning coach and a link to a yahoo site that is defunct. Do you have a link you can post as it sounds like a great resource. 

Too right it is a brilliant resource!

Search on here for Marton Central (Robert’s layout); there is a link in his signature “Coaching Stock Group”.  You need to register first, but then you don’t need to create a login or password, just go to the login page and hit the ‘email me a link to login’ button which gets you 30 days access.  Repeat as required every 30 days.

(Another) Paul.

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7 hours ago, Fishplate said:

 

Hi Paul. Have been reading your topic with interest. I copied and pasted the above direct into Google and got a life learning coach and a link to a yahoo site that is defunct. Do you have a link you can post as it sounds like a great resource. 

 

Keep safe and carry on modelling in these unusual times.

 

Best regards

 

John

Hi John,

I suggest you try:-

https://brcoachingstock.groups.io/g/main

 

As 5BarVT (Paul) says you will need to register, but it is all painless!

 

Cheers

Paul

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16 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Excellent stuff Paul. For me, this sort of thing is the essence of how we make it feel "real".

 

Last night I trawled through some recent Steam World articles about Cornwall and found about 100 more examples of which actual locos were on which actual trains on specific dates in the 1950s. Nerd or what?

No need to excuse yourself in my book!

That sort of research is just the thing to take your mind off the current situation!

 

I am just about to write up a quick post explaining a couple of points from my shunter posting as I wont have time today to do the full second half of the Shunter saga.

 

Stay safe and keep smiling, and remember:-

Now those of us spending time on research, model making, etc. are the norm, as all those who were out on the town and only came home to sleep have now to stay home!!

Cheers

Paul

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Today, there is just time for a follow up to yesterdays Shunting Engine Saga!

 

You may have wondered why I talked about goods shunting, but didn't give any details of the dropping of freight wagons from trains, or picking of wagons up?

There are two reasons:-

1) The real life reason, that most of the freights that dropped off or picked up wagons at Maidenhead did so during the hours of darkness, when there was no shunting engine on duty.

So the last duty of the last shunting engine before retiring to Slough Shed c2200 was to position the cuts of wagons to be picked up by the visiting night trains, and to clear siding space for them to drop off any of their wagons ready for the first shunting engine to deal with in the morning.

 

2) The modelling reason is as follows:-

You can see from the above that each visiting train needs two spaces:- one to drop off its wagons, and one containing the wagons it is to pick up. It is possible to do two trains with two sidings if they are long enough, but more trains picking up and dropping off start to require a lot of siding space. So my modelling problem is lack of siding space!

 

I have decided to use a standard "cut" size of equivalent to 5 standard wagons. They will not look "standardized" as some will have 4 wagons and some only 3 because they are using longer wagons!

While the real railway was generally much less limited in train length, I can only really cope with the equivalent of 15 standard wagons  per train in my fiddle yards. Of course  a "cut" could be any thing from one wagon upwards!

There are really only two sidings in Lower Thames Yard that are long enough to hold two cuts of  5 wagons, one on the up side between the up Relief loop and the coal siding, and one on the down side off the down Relief loop.

 

Also I am organizing things so that there are only three up and three down overnight visiting trains. One up train picks up only, the next drops off only, and the third one drops off and picks up. Similarly with the down trains, the first picks up only, the next drops off only and the third both picks up and drops off wagons.

 

Thus the shunting engine positions two up and two down cuts each evening and each morning has three up and three down cuts to shunt!

In real life there were in 24 hours 6 up freight trains that called at Maidenhead, one of which was the late night from Aylesbury which picked up coal empties from the coal siding and replaced them with full coal wagons.

This shunt can be done using the branch, so can be excluded from the relief line pick up and drop off of wagons.

 

In the down direction there were 5 freights that called. So I will be representing 5 trains by 3, but the number of freight trains needed can be reduced further because some ran in the hours  midnight to 4 am during which I am choosing not to  run trains!

One up train will arrive at 2355 as the 2240 class 9 Reading West to Southall (due away from Maidenhead at 0100!) and depart in the next running session at 0612 as the 0415 Class 9 Reading West to OOC (actually due into Maidenhead at 0512!).  

 

I will fill in more detail about the freight drop off and pick ups when I get to finish the shunting engine saga.

 

Meanwhile, stay safe, keep smiling and enjoy your modelling!

Best regards

Paul

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16 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Hi John,

I suggest you try:-

https://brcoachingstock.groups.io/g/main

 

As 5BarVT (Paul) says you will need to register, but it is all painless!

 

22 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Too right it is a brilliant resource!

Search on here for Marton Central (Robert’s layout);

 

 

 

Hi @Tallpaul69 and @5BarVT . Thank you both for your help. I will have a look.

 

Best Regards


John

 

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