Mainlane ex GW 22xx 0-6-0

[snowy1051]

Hello, I recently purchased an old Mainline 2251 0-6-0. It's a nice looking locomotive, but sometimes reluctant to move. 

When I first experienced this problem with it, I thought, hum, the nudge will do it, but no, the nudge doesn't work. What it takes to get it to move is downward pressure, I push down gently on the safety valve cover and hey presto, she moves. Could some kind person explain just why a downward press and not a nudge works please? I do not know a lot about Mainline locos, so any info will be greatly appreciated and acted on. Thank you. 

ps, any idea how old it is please? 

[GWR-fan]

Sorry,  unable to tell you the cause but I had a similar issue with an old Mainline 43XX.  I stripped it down several times but could not get it to run until I pressed down on it.  I gave up and removed the motor,  leaving just a dummy for doubleheading.   

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

It's at minimum approaching forty years old. (Mainline ceased in 1982 I think.) Spares only available from s/h 'breakers'.

 

This model has a split chassis mechanism of no great robustness. 'Pressing down' is inadvisable as the plastic muffs which make up the wheelsets by joining two wheel castings with stub axles, are prone to cracking over time: more force will accelerate failure.

Pick up is via the stub axles contact with the chassis halves, so build up of dried lubricant and metal oxides can limit conduction, clean out with IPA (remove the keeper plate to get access). Lube very sparingly with a plastics compatible grease. Repeat cleaning when the running starts to go off.

Then there is a shaped metal strip screwed on to each chassis half carrying current to the motor brushes, need to make sure they make positive contact with the brush springs.

 

It's a very simple circuit, easy to fault check for continuity.

[Tony Cane]

These locomotives have a split chassis and the electrical pickup is from the axle to the chassis. The most likely cause of the problem is that the oil is acting as an insulator.

This can be for a variety of reasons. Best solution is to dismantle and clean the axle and bearing surfaces.  A very light re-oil should give better running. In extreme cases the plating on the stub axles could be worn, but no simple cure for that.

 

I recently serviced a loco with a similar split chassis. Ran very smoothly when power was applied to the motor via the chassis sides, but even after a clean off excess oil from the bearings still ran jerkily.

[Devo63]

I've had a similar problem with this model which I bought new when they first came out. It ran well for many years before the power problems started. The wheel quartering was the next problem as the plastic gear and spacers packed up with the loco then spending a fair amount of time as a siding decoration.

 

A couple of years ago I purchased replacement spacers and gears from Peter's Spares and completely disassembled the chassis, cleaning everything thoroughly before reassembly. Adding a new set of brushes and springs to the motor has made it run again just like new although it is not up to the quality of the updated Bachmann model.

[hayfield]

I would keep a lookout for a replacement chassis / chassis parts going cheap on eBay. You could buy a Comet chassis to build but it will cost in the region of £100 new. But in addition of having an enjoyable time building it it will be vastly superior to the old chassis

[Philou]

A question concerning the split chassis - if I may? I have a few Mainline locos that have never been out of their boxes from new and I suspect that I shall encounter difficulties with running in the near future. Has anyone considered just removing the wheel-sets and replacing them with Romford style ones (insulated both sides of course) and making some new pick-ups? Or that too simple an approach and there's more?

 

I don't fancy paying £100 for a new chassis for a loco that's not worth very much .

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

I did think of one problem - what about the gearing - can that be changed for a. n. other?

 

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, Philou said:

Has anyone considered just removing the wheel-sets and replacing them with Romford style ones (insulated both sides of course) and making some new pick-ups? Or that too simple an approach and there's more?

 

 

It wouldn't work - the half axles are cast with the wheels, and fit into a nylon muff; (one of which incorporates the gear wheel).

 

Thus you'd need split axles and uninsulated wheels.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Gordon A]

Romford axles are I believe 1/8" diameter, I think the Mainline axles are a larger diameter.

Another option if the motor runs fine would be to glue some copper clad to the chassis and fit conventional pickups.

 

The cost for the chassis should include wheels, motor and gearbox. This should, if you choose the right gear ratio and motor a nice running loco.

 

Gordon A

[hayfield]

Sadly gone are the days where you can easily replace parts from alternative suppliers, the older models from Triang, Hornby Dublo and Hornby could/can accept parts from other companies allowing superior parts to be used, also lent themselves to adaption.

 

There are some models where drop in wheel sets can be used, mainly though for gauge conversion 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

7 minutes ago, Philou said:

A question concerning the split chassis - if I may? I have a few Mainline locos that have never been out of their boxes from new ...

 

Has anyone considered just removing the wheel-sets and replacing them with Romford style ones (insulated both sides of course) and making some new pick-ups?  - what about the gearing - can that be changed for a. n. other?

 

Let's take this in three bites.

 

When you want to start running these locos, gently does it. Before even applying power I would have the body off the mechanism and remove the keeper plate. If the mechanism is 'gummed up' with residue from dried up lubricant it needs to be carefully cleaned and then very sparingly lubricated, I would use a light plastic compatible grease, good choices from Labelle, Woodland Scenics, doubtless more options. If you can see damage to the plastic axle muffs or gears, then worth obtaining the spares that are mentioned in Devo63's post.

 

If all appears well then after replacing the keeper plate try just gently turning over the motor cog to see if the whole drive line moves freely. That done, try on track power. Used carefully you may be able to get years of use from them.

 

Secondly. Just because it says Mainline on the box, doesn't automatically mean a split chassis mechanism. Mainline absorbed designs from the Airfix GMR range, some of which have a large five pole open frame motor and regular wiper pick up. Often found to sound like a coffee grinder when running, but I have examples that are still reliably coffee grindering decades later.

 

Thirdly. Alternative replacement wheelsets and gear trains for sp;it chassis mechanisms. All DIY, has been attempted, but never seen a report of success. In short a significant amount of quite complex work that would be better invested in an all new mechanism project which can be expected to yield a much superior running result. (My take is get them running if feasible, run to wear out, and as they show signs of failing then decide if it is to be a new mechanism build, or to go for a newer replacement RTR model with a better mechanism.

[Philou]

I was thinking more of new wheels (insulated both sides) and axles to suit and do away with any half axle and the insulated muff. However, if the diameter of the original are different to the replacement ones, then it also involves bushes or reaming - plus finding a suitable gear set-up. Hmmm things to ponder IF mine are flaky.

 

Oh, well we'll see what happens. @34theletterbetweenB&D It was well worth mentioning the deep clean as I have some recent offerings that are caked with a reddish grease that seems to have 'gone-off'.

 

Thanks for your thoughts,

 

Philip

[tomparryharry]

To retain most of your locomotive, we would ideally need an insulated axle. This is quite straightforward, along with (as John Isherwood says) , un-insulated wheels. To replace

the space of the muffs, you might need Romford frame bushes, to pack out the missing muff. The insulation of the axle is created by cutting said axle in half, inserting & gluing a hard plastic pin (Delrin?) into the bored-out axle half. This 'should' create an insulated axle. We would need a slightly different process for the geared axle, but I'd think it's do-able, with just a bit of extra thought process. Straightforward on a lathe, but I haven't used a lathe for quite a while. One thing to consider is getting the quartering of the wheels spot-on. Quartering jig, perhaps? I've thought long & hard about putting independent springing into a Mainline pannier, just for the hell of it.  

 

So you'd need:- A lathe, uninsulated wheels x 6, drills x various sizes, fine coil springs, soldering iron, Romford frame bushes, Delrin  pin stock, about 1. 25mm diameter, and some Gibson coupling rods. It's fine if you're gearing up for 500 of the things, but I'm not so sure about just one of them. On that basis, it would be easier, and probably cost effective, to purchase the High Level kit, and ask them very nicely if they would actually make it, for the additional financial incentive. 

 

Happy modelling,

Ian.

[Steamport Southport]

Without having a look it sounds like it's the axle with the gear cog which has gone, which is a very common fault.

 

Peters do replacements for many of the parts including these.

 

https://www.petersspares.com/peters-spares-ps29-mainline-replacement-axle-set-collett-manor-mogul-43xx-replica-b1.ir

 

 

 

Jason

[cypherman]

Hi all,

Although not a mainline 0-6-0 I did add extra pickups to a 4mt 4-6-0 with great success. It was only done as an experiment to see if it would work. I used old Triang Hornby pick ups from their 0-6-0 jinty's.

This is the link to how I did it.

 

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

 

Secondly. Just because it says Mainline on the box, doesn't automatically mean a split chassis mechanism. Mainline absorbed designs from the Airfix GMR range, some of which have a large five pole open frame motor and regular wiper pick up. Often found to sound like a coffee grinder when running, but I have examples that are still reliably coffee grindering

The 2251 is a Mainline loco later I believe produced by Dapol and Bachmann, but has been out of production for many years.  It never had an Airfix open frame motor and ‘conventional’ chassis.  Mainline’s split chassis were a good idea poorly executed and are known to have several issues with excess wear over time.  Bodywise it’s not up to the mark compared to current RTR, with the firebox fattened to accommodate the pancake motor, and no cab detail.  It’s a poor and noisy runner by modern standards as well, but if you can get yours running after a clean up and re-lube, it’ll be ok so long as you don’t use it for shunting or give it more than  4 coaches to pull in the flat. 
 

You’ll be on borrowed time, though, and TTBOMK no replacement RTR is in the pipeline.  Long term, your options are probably:-

 

. A kit chassis.  Expensive but much better running and haulage. 
 

. Donor chassis/mechs from the Bay of e.  Cheaper but prolonging the inevitable. 
 

 . Tender drive.  Not my favourite thing but a viable alternative in this particular case.  Remove the motor and gears from the original chassis, attach pick up wires from the tender motor to the Mainline chassis blocks; there are screws to which you can fix the bared wire ends.  Potential drawback is that the suitable drives that turn up on ‘Bay are from the same era and likely to be past their best.  And you'll probably have to make an unfeasible pile of coal to hide the motor 
 

 

[Steamport Southport]

16 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

 

You’ll be on borrowed time, though, and TTBOMK no replacement RTR is in the pipeline.  Long term, your options are probably:-

 

 

 

 

 

Bachmann? Brand new model a few years back. It wasn't a revamped version of the Mainline model.

 

1998 according to Ramsay's Guide. DCC compatible since 2007.

 

 

 

Jason

Edited January 30, 2020 by Steamport Southport
Added date

[GeraldH]

As mentioned earlier, cleaning the axles as well as the axle bearing surfaces may well help.  Using graphite powder, rather than oil, to lubricate the axles will help with conductivity.

[DCB]

The 2251 is pretty awful, but the poor running can be cured by fitting pick ups between the chassis halves and the backs of the driving wheels.  The stub axles don't conduct very well especially if lubricated and the journals tend to heat which softens the axles which allows the wheels to fall off.   

I did a post about fitting pickups to Bachmann split chassis some time ago.

The 2251 wheels are a sort of half way house between 57XX and 2251 size, The whole engine sits too low and the buffer beams are shortened to compensate.

The 3000 tender also sits too low as the axles are too far up the axle boxes, again the buffer beam was shortened. This continued for years and all sorts of Hornby locos inherited tenders which were too low in relation to the locos.  

The Bachmann 2251 is much the same, less of an excuse for not looking much like a 2251, wrong buffer beam, voluminous firebox etc, still too low and does not match the Churchward 3500 tender Bachmann provided.  It runs a bit better but has difficulty pulling the skin off a Rice Pudding.  The Wills cast kit 2251 is horrible, stretched to an 8ft + 8ft 6" Triang  chassis instead of a 7ft 3" + 8ft 3" chassis, horrible heavy castings, tiny cab windows etc.   

My latest 2251 attempt is a Mainliine Body on a re drilled Triang Chassis with K's 5 pole motor plus Romford wheels and gears and Mainline rods.    This will hopefully pull trains, as its predecessor one on a Hornby Dublo R1 chassis did, and not look quite as bad as the R1 chassis one did , or indeed the Will one, and won't combine the cost .inaccuracies, and poor performance of the Bachmann.    If that don't work I suppose I will have to get a comet chassis....

Edited January 31, 2020 by DavidCBroad

[snowy1051]

My sincere thanks to all who have responded to my query. Very happily I am one of those railway modellers who just enjoys running trains with a reasonable amount of accuracy. I am ex footplate so know a little of how trains were run when trains were trains. (Steam in the 50's and 60's).  My skill level is "representation" and I am very happy with that, I can take an old wagon chassis and produce a quite reasonable representation of whatever I want it to be. Or make a building that looks alike a building, albeit bereft of finer details. I don't ballast my track as I tend to move sidings around to increase operational interest. |I don't like ballasting anyway. I enjoy going to exhibitions to admire other peoples work. I am purely analogue too, that is due to being a one man, 2 controller, band, tho' in reality DCC is far too expensive for me, as are new locos. Even though I own a soldering iron, I am pretty useless at it. Don't have the knack! But most of my electrical connections are soldered and hidden, only I know what they look like! but they work. I thoroughly enjoy my hobby. Fortuitously very few people have visited my train room, as here in Southern Alberta my nearest 00 gauge layout is in Calgary somewhere, 2 hours north of me.  The club here is HO and N and they have absolutely superb layouts. The HO one is all DCC and massive. I shall have a go at improving the running of my ancient 2251, fingers crossed. Tho' I have had it pull 20 wagons of various pedigrees. Thanks again to all who have contributed to my post. I always enjoy reading the varied points of view and ideas put forward here. Super stuff. 

Cheers, Gordon. 

[Butler Henderson]

I had three years ago and IIRC they all ran well - two would plod around a loft layout on lengthy freight trains while the third spent most of time sharing branch passenger duties with a 57xx and 61xx. To correct a comment in the thread they were not made by Dapol at any time - Dapol simply bought the stock in the Palitoy warehouse and sold them as if their own. Post Mainline some were made for Replica. Bachmann made a new model without a split chassis and never sold this one.

[Philou]

@DavidCBroad I have the Wills' version - it was my first kit tender loco built in 1965-66 (before the hormones kicked in ). I don't know how it stands up against a more modern version, but don't forget at that time we were pretty grateful for anything that came our way that wasn't some (by modern standards) a rather horrible plastic bodied 'generic' loco made by Triang. I was very pleased with it as it could pull the skin of a rice pudding despite being noisy.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

(I have a photo of it as it is in its original paintwork if anyone wants a look - but it might be a tad OT).

 

[hayfield]

The Wills version used the Triang/Hornby Jinty chassis and as you say with the heavy whitemetal body is a good work horse

 

Later Wills produced a (both tender and tank version) simple (no brake gear) etched chassis replacement chassis, allowing for a decent motor/gearbox combination

 

Southeastern Finecast now do both a tender and tank versions with etched brake gear, quite a splendid kit