“BEYOND DOVER”

[Compound2632]

10 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

I don't know how much work it would have required to replace dumb buffers with spring buffers but it would have involved some cost.  

 

In Britain it seems to have been more-or-less simply a case of sawing them off and bolting self-contained sprung buffers in their place. Such "reconstruction" was common around the turn of the century - so much the same time-scale as in France, it would appear. This was mostly on private owner wagons, though some company wagons such as single bolster timber trucks were so converted. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Compound2632

[Northroader]

DUMB BUFFERS.

 

OLD P-O WAGONS.

 

 

I think it would be a bit more complicated, because the dumb buffer was an extension of the solebar, with a packing block added to make up a square shape, and the headstock spanned the gap between the solebars, with reinforcing angles. You couldn’t really fix the replacement buffer by screwing into the end grain of the shortened solebar, so you’d need to fit new longer headstocks as well, swapping the drawgear over, then bolt the buffers on to that.

addition: I’ve since spotted an early photo of a P-O cattle van, clearly fitted with dumb buffers. There’s also a flat in the same collection with them. Interesting in showing that specialist cattle vans were superseded on many lines by the later dual purpose general goods /cattle vans, with adjustable shutters. Only the NORD kept the two types apart, so the general goods vans didn’t have shutters, and without the ventilation thus provided, they couldn’t be requisitioned for troop movements.

(addition: this really is a good high definition picture of an ancient wagon in the bloom of youth, I should give a link to where you can find all its mates, all P-O:

https://ltbc.fr/?page_id=623)

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Northroader

[Compound2632]

4 hours ago, Northroader said:

I think it would be a bit more complicated, because the dumb buffer was an extension of the solebar, with a packing block added to make up a square shape, and the headstock spanned the gap between the solebars, with reinforcing angles. You couldn’t really fix the replacement buffer by screwing into the end grain of the shortened solebar, so you’d need to fit new longer headstocks as well, swapping the drawgear over, then bolt the buffers on to that.

 

No, you're quite right; I was simplifying. There seem to have been two methods: either a new full-width headstock was fitted, with the solebar cut back to fit behind it; or the buffer was attached to a substantial wooden pad which was fixed to the solebar by an angle bracket, on the outside, and bolted to the existing headstock on the inside. The former method seems to have been more common on reconstructed PO wagons. Self-contained buffers had to be used because fitting the usual transverse leaf spring would have required too much modification to the end diagonals and longitudinals.

 

Sorry this is getting cismanchely off-topic.

[Northroader]

Cismanchely?

[Compound2632]

How things are done on this side of the channel.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Compound2632

[Northroader]

DUTCH LIGHT RAILWAYS

 

When I’m doing something as esoteric (that’s a good word, innit?) as a thread on 1900 continental Europe, I feel I should cast around for examples of good modelling practice for inspiration and encouragement, as well as just my fumblings. Looking at the scaleforum virtual meeting the other day, there were two good layouts for this, so here’s the first one, with some padding out following the direction it took me.

The layout was a Dutch tramway, “DE GRAAFSTROOM” introduced by Vincent de Bode. It is set in 1947, but you could wipe fifty years off, and it would still look the same, apart from the odd road vehicle:

 

Besides the meticulous modelling, I like the pace it goes at, very stately, totally unhurried, with a swan setting the pace it seems. It wouldn’t do if you’re fond of a Deltic doing a tailchase on a big oval with a dozen coaches, but to me there’s a lot going for small and slow.

One model I have come across on the same theme was by a Mr Saunders of Slough, called “waiting for the lift bridge” in 1/100 scale. This had no movement at all, being just mounted on a slowly turning table so you could view every angle. There are very few times I’ve come across a static tableau model railway, before the recent cakebox developments, but it’s worth a thought of doing an attractive little scene, a static display without the sprawl of a model layout, the military modellers do nothing else. Sort of “coffee table modelling”?

Its inspired by a painting by Anton Pieck, he’s a Dutch artist who had a very folksy style. Lots happening, with plenty of detail. You could look at his work and pick out some great ideas for settings and buildings for a traditional old Dutch town around your layout, - or cakebox?

youll see all the motive power power so far is steam tram outlines, and the Dutch also did very good examples of small conventional locomotives, so there’s plenty to go at. Try an enquiry on “Stoomtramlocomotieven” and see how you get on. Here’s some light branch types belonging to the old Holland Railway, out testing a lift bridge. There were forty one of these built by Borsig in the 1880s, 0-4-0s with inside cylinders and motion, so as simple as they come for scratch builders.

Really all this is ideal for the 1900s scene, as I’m afraid the whole lot was very vulnerable to the rise of motor transport on the roads. Fortunately there’s still some action preserved:

https://www.stoomtram.nl/en/

There are a lot of videos done for this, so prepare for a steam chase across the polders.

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Northroader

[Compound2632]

18 hours ago, Northroader said:

The layout was a Dutch tramway, “DE GRAAFSTROOM” introduced by Vincent de Bode.

 

 

I saw that at the Uckfield show at this time last year. Marvellous; best in show at what was an exceptionally good show.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Compound2632
Uckfield not Uxbridge!

[Northroader]

There should be a post for “envious”

 

[Pacific231G]

16 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I saw that at the Uxbridge show at this time last year. Marvellous; best in show at what was an exceptionally good show.

I've seen it but can't remember where. It is indeed a fantastic layout and the marine activity on the canal  of the sailing barge and the swan were done very well with a particualrly smooth natural motion.

[BlueLightning]

18 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I saw that at the Uxbridge show at this time last year. Marvellous; best in show at what was an exceptionally good show.

 

Surely you mean Uckfield, Stephen? (and yes it was a fantastic show, I'm totally not biased)

[Compound2632]

Yes, Uckfield of course! (corrected in post.)

 

As I recall, the builder's parent grew up in one of the buildings and grandparents worked in the factory.

 

If one reads a description, it can sound rather gimicky but really it wasn't at all - everything moved so naturally.

[Northroader]

The last two years I’ve been thinking of going to Uckfield, and dithering whether to or not, it sounds great, but it’s a bit of a hike from here. Maybe next year, if hasn’t become a Nightingale Hospital.

[BlueLightning]

It's always a great show, I'll try not to let my bias show too much

 

We had to cancel this year for obvious reasons, (it would have been in a fortnight otherwise), but is already booked in for 16th/17th October next year.

 

As a taste here is a video I did of last years show (The link should take you straight to the exhibition clips, if not you want to jump to 4:43)

 

 

[Northroader]

DANISH RAILWAYS.

 

Taking things on with the other inspirational layout from the virtual scale-forum I mentioned, time for a visit to Denmark (yoo hoo, Mikkel!)

 

This is Obbekaer, by Mr. Geraint Hughes of Ely. It’s set for 1960, but I feel with a change of motive power it would be quite typical for the 1900 era. The setting is hypothetical, but very likely. Denmark was served across the country by a State Railway system, DSB, with main lines, cross country routes, and branch lines, but in addition there were local lines scattered about, independent of the state, called “privatbaner”. The model is for one of these, but DSB can appear too. I really like the design, just a loop and a siding, and the operation, trains passing through or crossing, with the occasional shunt into the siding. Really, it’s all you need, keep it simple.

Theres a thread running on RMweb for this line, plus the next one following on:

 

To get clued up on Danish Railways, there’s two sites I know of that are highly useful, for locos and rolling stock there’s this:

https://www.jernbanen.dk

Ive lifted pictures of two locos from here to give an idea of what you could use to replace the railcars. One is a 2-4-0t from Hawthorns in 1874, the other a 0-4-2t from Esslingen in 1876. Both were originally tender engines, and rebuilt to tank engines by the DSB around 1900.

 

The other site is by a quite remarkable gentleman, Erik Pedersen. He does a regular post on it for over quite a long time, and it’s good for picking out detail of the various routes in Denmark, photos of buildings and track layouts, with some old photos and items of rolling stock. He’s also a tram nut, so you can find details of a lot of systems all over Europe. Obviously it’s all in Danish, which I’m afraid I can’t manage at all, but you can steer by the illustrations,  which are plentiful, and you soon get a feel for key words.

edit: I’m sorry to say that Erik Pedersen died in February 2023. His site can still be accessed, and I do hope this continues, as it really is an invaluable source, particularly the illustrations.

 

http://evp.dk

 

Its nice to have a trip out in the fresh air, with some steam blowing around, particularly these days when we’re all cooped up avoiding Covid, so I’m ending with some links to preservation sites. I afraid some of them are a bit uneven, but I hope you enjoy the charm of the countryside, pottering around with simple stations and vintage rolling stock. The three examples are operated by railway societies, who own the rolling stock, and operate on some corner of a privatbane,

 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Northroader

[Compound2632]

There is something very familiar about Danish railways to children of a certain age:

 

[Northroader]

It’s got to be Danish, with the national colours in a collar around the chimney, The privatbaner had individual bands on the collar, rather like shipping lines, and the Danes do have a strong maritime tradition. Here’s a link to evp site, under “skorstenband” all the chimney bands for the various railways are given:

http://evp.dk/index.php?page=pa-lokomotiver-og-vogne

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Northroader

[Mikkel]

Nice selection of links and videos. Couldn't have come up with a better introduction myself. 

 

I work close to what was once a very evocative and highly modellable railway scene in Copenhagen, a small system connecting a gas works to a harbour area.  Some photos here, note the "viaduct":

 

https://www.jernbanen.dk/artikler.php?artno=43
 

BTW, Chrome has a Google Translate extension for webpages that can be added in seconds.

[Northroader]

Thanks, Mikkel, I wanted to put Denmark in as a source of inspiration, particularly after finding the Obbekaer layout, but was aware I was treading on eggs, so pleased you approve. 

The gasworks line is different, and after all the gantries and engines and hoppers and trestles and tips, it looks as if it all comes down to one wheelbarrow?

Edited October 6, 2020 by Northroader

[Compound2632]

I thought there was something very familiar-looking about those engines; scrolling down I see they're identified as Hudswell. Hudswell, Clarke works nos. 498 and 499 for the first two. Skildpadden indeed! Had these Danes not seen a saddle tank before?

[Northroader]

If you look up industrialbaner, you’ll find any number of small British built engines falling out of the woodwork. Still, they’ve preserved one, which looks rather nice. “Tortoise” is rather a cute name for describing a saddle tank, don’t you think?

Edited October 6, 2020 by Northroader

[Mikkel]

 

This is ØG2, one of the gasworks locos in the link above. Built by Hudswell Clarke in 1899. Retired in 1969 and donated to the Danish Museum of Technology and Society in Elsinore. It's been outside the museum in various locations since then, so beneath the neat finish is one very rusty loco! I drove past it regularly when we lived in Elsinore.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Mikkel

[Northroader]

It struck me looking at industrialbaner that the main sidings are either gasworks or sugar refineries (beet conversion?) As all the coal was imported, I thought that domestic heating would be by gas fires in preference to open coal fires? The implication being that there wouldn’t be many coal wagons in local sidings.

[pete_mcfarlane]

I've never seen a loco with a round cab roof ventilator before. 

[Mikkel]

9 hours ago, Northroader said:

It struck me looking at industrialbaner that the main sidings are either gasworks or sugar refineries (beet conversion?) As all the coal was imported, I thought that domestic heating would be by gas fires in preference to open coal fires? The implication being that there wouldn’t be many coal wagons in local sidings.

 

I'm on thin ice here as this is outside my normal field of interest, but from general knowledge and looking at a Danish report covering the first half of the 1900s suggests that coal (and later oil) was the main source of domestic heating. The PF and PFR wagons introduced in the early 1890s appear to have been often used for coal. Some photos here, the modern look of these wagons can be deceptive:

 

https://sundborg.wordpress.com/2020/06/12/dsb-godsvogne-litra-pf-og-pfr-danmarks-mest-talrige/

 

https://www.jernbanen.dk/dsb_gvognfotos.php?Aar=1941&litra=PF&typenr=

 

https://arkiv.dk/vis/5459467

 

 

6 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

I've never seen a loco with a round cab roof ventilator before. 

 

Neither have I, come to think of it. This page has photos of a sister loco, in some you can see the round raised 'roof' above the ventilator: 

 

https://veterantoget.dk/materiel/damplokomotiver/oeg-nr1/

 

 

[Compound2632]

9 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

I've never seen a loco with a round cab roof ventilator before. 

 

The headlamp with hood I understand but I'm puzzling over the box on the side of the smokebox. Is it, perhaps, an exhaust-steam driven accumulator?