“BEYOND DOVER”

[Northroader]

I like that, Fred, and you’ve got the job of disc jockey on this thread too.

[railroadbill]

Just come  across this thread, it's been very interesting.

 

 

Here's my (HO) beer transportation contribution.  The Tuborg and Carlsberg vans are Heljan, the Ceres one is Roco. All mid 90's production.

Edited November 8, 2021 by railroadbill

[Northroader]

ITALIAN STATE RAILWAY ARCHIVE DRAWINGS.

 

One link I’ve recently come across, which you may find interesting, is the Italian State Railway, FS, archive. If your Italian is good, all the better, but you can bumble along, clicking on the different categories and subcategories, and end up with useful drawings. Build your own goods train.

https://www.archiviofondazionefs.it/en/Archivio-Servizio-Materiale-e-Trazione/rs/dc645a1f203c2dd8b95ad43be5177b1c1ebf93a0/

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Northroader

[Compound2632]

5 hours ago, Northroader said:

One link I’ve recently come across, which you may find interesting, is the Italian State Railway, FS, archive.

 

I had a look there but couldn't find anything on Gruppo 380 FS in the steam locomotive section - I was hoping for a nice drawing of an ex-Midland Kirtley 700 Class outside-framed 0-6-0!

[sncf231e]

You do not need an internet archive when you have books in your library 

Regards

Fred

[Northroader]

This sort of thing? (Out of Kalla Bishop)

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Northroader

[Northroader]

Snap, Fred!

[5944]

Well look what's just popped up on Ebay...! 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HO-Locomotive-Keyser-FS-380-005-White-Metal-Mounted-/284526594510?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=724-127637-2357-0

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, 5944 said:

Well look what's just popped up on Ebay...! 

 

I presume that is the regular 4 mm scale Ks kit!

[5944]

9 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I presume that is the regular 4 mm scale Ks kit!

I think so, but it was released in Italy through MFAL who added Italian specific parts to the kit - lamps, transfers, etc. 

[Northroader]

But not the cab roof extension, badly needed in Italy on an old Midland engine

[pete_mcfarlane]

I'd not realised that some of these ended up in Italy. I managed to rack down a picture on Italian Wikipedia: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locomotiva_FS_380

 

The black with red outside frames livery quite suits them. 

 

Some Dean Goods ended up in Italy as well (although a list of European railways that didn't operate Deans Goods might be shorter...) https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locomotiva_FS_293

[Compound2632]

7 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

I'd not realised that some of these ended up in Italy. I managed to rack down a picture on Italian Wikipedia: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locomotiva_FS_380

 

Yes, fifty of them. A drop in the ocean as far as the Midland was concerned! I liked "estremamente semplici e robusti". Following the links, there's a page https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locomotiva_MR_classe_700 that references F. James, @Dave Hunt & R.J. Essery, Midland Engines: No. 4 The '700 Class' Double-framed Goods Engines, Wild Swan Publications, 2002. 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Compound2632

[Northroader]

“Chwarae teg (Fair play)”, as they say in Wales, I must keep a level playing field, so here are a couple of products built by Sharps of Manchester which went abroad, No. 500 of the Chemin de Fer de l’Ouest, (Denis Allenden did a model of it, see p.1) and No. 200 “Combermere” (nice old Austrian name) of the konigliche kaiserliche

 

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Northroader

[Compound2632]

Both système Webb; to all intents and purposes the Experiment class, the first of which, Experiment, was built in early 1882, with the remainder following between Feb 1883 and July 1884, so the 1881 date on the Ouest postcard is a mistake; indeed Peter Davis, in his book on the Webb three-cylinder compounds, states that it entered service in November 1884. The Austrian State engine was delivered earlier the same year. Davis states that the name Combermere marks a visit by the Empress Elizabeth of Austria to Combermere Abbey, Cheshire, near the LNWR Crewe-Shrewsbury line. 

 

A brave attempt to keep a level playing-field between the Midland and the North Western but these Sharps engines were one-offs built to satisfy the customers' curiosity whereas the sale of second-hand Midland engines in bulk was to meet a real and pressing operational need.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Compound2632

[Northroader]

I would have said a special order for trial of a quality express engine featuring revolutionary design, as against some old obsolete goods engines which would otherwise have been sold for scrap, but hey, I’m not a Derby salesperson.

Both these systems were inspired to have great success in compounding after this, even if the writeup in this paper is somewhat dismissive of Mr Webb’s great opus.

And by the way, way back I was going on about the quality of coal from the Northern French / Belgian coal field, and in here you get a good write up of just what it was like, and how briquettes were done, necessary for a lot of French tenders.

http://kesr-mic.org.uk/resources/Compound+Locomotive+$26+Their+Work.pdf

Edited November 14, 2021 by Northroader

[Compound2632]

29 minutes ago, Northroader said:

And by the way, way back I was going on about the quality of coal from the Northern French / Belgian coal field, and in here you get a good write up of just what it was like, and how briquettes were done, nescessary for a lot of French tenders.

http://kesr-mic.org.uk/resources/Compound+Locomotive+$26+Their+Work.pdf

 

It would be very interesting to read Dugald Drummond's observations on compounding; even more so to hear them, I would think!

[bbishop]

On 14/11/2021 at 15:52, Compound2632 said:

 

It would be very interesting to read Dugald Drummond's observations on compounding; even more so to hear them, I would think!

Stephen, DD gave a talk to either the Nine Elms or the Eastleigh Locomotive Society.  I have a copy somewhere in the South Western Circle records that I look after.  Not sure where!

My recollection is DD was fairly mild, something along the lines that compounding and superheating were not suited to our railway.  I think he was probably correct on one score, definitely wrong on the other.

Bill

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, bbishop said:

My recollection is DD was fairly mild, something along the lines that compounding and superheating were not suited to our railway.  I think he was probably correct on one score, definitely wrong on the other.

 

Just today, in the Imaginary Locomotives topic, @Northmoor made the observation:

 

Quote

It is generally accepted that rail applications are the most stressful duty cycle for a diesel engine.  It is probably one contributing factor to why the Class 159 DMUs from Salisbury depot are so reliable; they pull out of Waterloo then pull steadily up to cruise speed which they hold until at least Woking and often Basingstoke.  Compare with Pacers which often had to stop and start every 3-4 miles on many of their duties, that's hard on engines and transmissions.

 

which immediately brought to my mind the ideal conditions for a compound steam locomotive - continuous work at a constant rate. 

[Northroader]

Down at the station, early in the morning, in this case Saint Luc, Chemin de Fer de l’Est, and we have the morning goods coming in on the loop line, headed by a Bicyclette.

Cut the engine off, and run through on to the turntable:

Then run back on the platform line, and run on to the cassette, which has been moved over:

Then move back over to the loop, and propel the goods train through until the first two wagons are on the turntable, and cut them off:

Now pull the last two wagons back down the loop, stick them on the platform road, and uncouple:

The loco. now goes back up the loop, and couples on to the two wagons on the turntable, which have been turned, so that the fourgon is at the other end, and brings them back down the loop, and on to the cassette:

Back into the goods siding, and couple on the two wagons parked there:

These are then pulled out, and the whole set put in the loop:

Then back over to the platform line and pick up the two wagons there:

These are put off into the goods siding:

Then the loco goes back on to the formed up train, and pulls it clear into the loop, ready to leave, but the crew are in no hurry, and over to the Cafe de la Gare:

Will there be time to put the platform edging in place before the passenger train arrives? I expect so.

 

Addition: in the course of restoring images following the great picture crash, I find I’m unable to recreate the ones accompanying this post, as I didn’t store them and in the meantime the layout has been altered. My apologies, I hope sometime to describe a shunt with the new setup. Promise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Northroader

[bgman]

2 hours ago, Northroader said:

headed by a Bicyclette.

 

I do like the look of this loco Mr. N , may I ask the source of the model please ( sorry if it has been documented previously in your thread )

 

G

[Mikkel]

11 hours ago, Northroader said:

Down at the station, early in the morning, in this case Saint Luc, Chemin de Fer de l’Est, and we have the morning goods coming in on the loop line, headed by a Bicyclette.

 

Cut the engine off, and run through on to the turntable:

 

Then run back on the platform line, and run on to the cassette, which has been moved over:

 

Then move back over to the loop, and propel the goods train through until the first two wagons are on the turntable, and cut them off:

 

Now pull the last two wagons back down the loop, stick them on the platform road, and uncouple:

 

The loco. now goes back up the loop, and couples on to the two wagons on the turntable, which have been turned, so that the fourgon is at the other end, and brings them back down the loop, and on to the cassette:

 

Back into the goods siding, and couple on the two wagons parked there:

 

These are then pulled out, and the whole set put in the loop:

 

Then back over to the platform line and pick up the two wagons there:

 

These are put off into the goods siding:

 

Then the loco goes back on to the formed up train, and pulls it clear into the loop, ready to leave, but the crew are in no hurry, and over to the Cafe de la Gare:

 

Will there be time to put the platform edging in place before the passenger train arrives? I expect so.

 

 

"Small layouts are dull"

"Small layouts have no operating potential"

 

I don't think so!

[bgman]

3 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

"Small layouts are dull"

"Small layouts have no operating potential"

 

I don't think so!

 

They have been a source of inspiration and help retain many a modellers sanity ! 

 

G

[Northroader]

On 13/12/2021 at 22:44, bgman said:

 

I do like the look of this loco Mr. N , may I ask the source of the model please ( sorry if it has been documented previously in your thread )

 

G

 

PARIS BANLEIUE — LES “BICYCLETTES”, OUEST, NORD, EST  2-4-0T.

 

Actually it’s quite a good pick, Grahame, as a starter loco. Inside cylinders, inside valve gear, just coupling rods to worry about, so it’s my kind of engine. Two pairs of drivers and one pair of carrying wheels, motor and gears, so quite low outlay, then just brass strip and spacers. I did a rough outline back on page two that I worked off, made up from a blown up drawing in a magazine. All you’ve got to worry about is getting the coupling rod centres to match the  axle hole centres (I solder the rods to the frames and drill them all together) then just getting the driving wheels all touching down on a flat surface, which saves worrying about compensation, give the leading wheels some sideplay and light springing, and lastly making sure the centre of gravity is squarely over the drivers when ballasting the superstructure.

 

The other good thing about them is you could find them right across the Northern half of France. They originated on the OUEST, the first tank engines in France and having a “long boiler” layout,  using them on Paris suburban services out of St.Lazare and Montparnasse through Versailles and St Germain, the North West sector out of Paris being the favoured area for living. The keynote of early OUEST engines was the “Pot au Moutarde” dome, later on they decided what they called the “English” look was the thing.

Addition: there’s a good article by Clive Lamming, (I’ve linked to him before) giving the work of the OUEST Bicyclettes in the Paris suburbs, plus a look at the development of St. Lazare, so here’s a link to that:

https://trainconsultant.com/2022/01/10/il-etait-une-fois-dans-louest-la-bicyclette-mais-pas-le-velo/

 

 

The NORD and the EST latched on to the design and built very similar engines for their suburban routes, but I’m afraid the PLM and the PO didn’t join in. (One oddity was the early EST series were give names of English cities) Towards the end of the nineteenth century the services needed engines with a bit more welly, and the bicyclettes were farmed out to country branch lines for a few more years, so just the thing for modellers. The OUEST had some pleasant lines in Normandy, if I can find the link I’d like to return on this, and you’ll see the NORD example on the Saint Saens branch (the famous composer coming from a posh French family which had a town named after them, or was it the other way round, “Carnival of the Animals” and the Organ Concerto, oh yes, and a branch line, too)

 

And the EST had Saint Luc, it seems..

Edited May 23, 2022 by Northroader

[bgman]

Thank you for that very comprehensive reply, very much appreciated and also interesting in many ways too.

 

My first encounter with French loco's other than my childhood friends' Jouef trainset was at an exhibition where Mike Sharman was operating his delightful layout. I was rather awestruck seeing his Crampton's plus other wonderful Victorian models.

 

Had I the expertise to make a Crampton then it wouldn't have be Italian railways that are currently being played modelled. 

I know there are some models available through a French Company but I dare not start another theme !!! 

 

G