woodenhead Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 31 minutes ago, PJT said: How on earth did Cat Stevens come up with that when he was only 22? Well remembered, Darius43. He wasn't worrying about the price of model trains 1 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted February 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2020 32 minutes ago, PJT said: How on earth did Cat Stevens come up with that when he was only 22? Well remembered, Darius43. Trouble is now I can’t get the song out of my head... Darius 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PJT Posted February 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Darius43 said: Trouble is now I can’t get the song out of my head... You and me both. The rest of the song is a direct hit, relating to today's outburst, too. Apart from anything else, I just can't be bothered to make my world so unpleasant by getting all rude and loud like that any more. Oh, wait a minute, there's always Brexit... I certainly did get rude and loud whilst kicking out against learning some of life's lessons, once upon time - but it was only to my parents (that was bad enough!), not several hundred internet forum contributors. Pete T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Accord Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said: On being a student........I had to sell my precious collection of Hornby Dublo to fund my way through university in the 1960’s.There simply was no “disposable income” to fund anything but the bare necessities. As a child growing up in the early 1940’s,because of a general shortage of raw materials postwar,there simply were no such things as toy trains on the market .Only in 1950 did Hornby start to produce in sufficient numbers for them to be readily available. I had to wait.Wait ? Is the word still in the O.E.D ? Students now have to shoulder a huge burden of debt as we all readily agree.A student loan however doesn’t necessarily award anyone entitlement to be on the same footing as those who have earned their disposable income over a period of years in the workplace.You want the goodies ? OK....earn it first.Then whinge if you want to. I think one of the greater problems the likes of Josh's generation shall face is that it's very possible they'll never be able to afford such models to the degree that previous generations can, whether they be aged 18 or 68, in work or retired - the latter probably being somewhere in the early 70s age range by the time he gets there and likely still saddled with debt. 1 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted February 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 minute ago, PJT said: You and me both. The rest of the song is a direct hit, relating to today's outburst, too. Apart from anything else, I just can't be bothered to make my world so unpleasant by getting all rude and loud like that any more. Oh, wait a minute, there's always Brexit... I certainly did get rude and loud whilst kicking out against learning some of life's lessons, once upon time - but it was only to my parents (that was bad enough!), not several hundred internet forum contributors. Pete T. Up at eight, you can’t be late... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PJT Posted February 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Darius43 said: Up at eight, you can’t be late... But tell me, where do the children play? Err, I think we should stop this drift before we get told off. Anyway, I'm off to play Catch Bull At Four. Pete T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47423 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) To save trolling through this entire topic, I'll ask the question. Sorry if it has been mentioned. I thought production numbers varied according to orders gained from retailers. If models are only announced when production is just about to go ahead or even already produced. Aren't they at risk of misjudging supply and demand? Maybe announcing only what is to preduced over the next 12-8 months only may have been a better compromise? Edited February 4, 2020 by 47423 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted February 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2020 14 minutes ago, Bon Accord said: I think one of the greater problems the likes of Josh's generation shall face is that it's very possible they'll never be able to afford such models to the degree that previous generations can, whether they be aged 18 or 68, in work or retired - the latter probably being somewhere in the early 70s age range by the time he gets there and likely still saddled with debt. Think we must have done a few things right at some time. Mrs SE and I had started full-time work at 17. We bought a flat and when we moved in had a big mortgage and about £20 in the bank. We moved up through the housing chain, supported two children through University and finally managed to get debt-free 31 years later. Strangely enough most of my RTR models post-date that event. 30 minutes ago, Bon Accord said: On being a student........I had to sell my precious collection of Hornby Dublo to fund my way through university in the 1960’s.There simply was no “disposable income” to fund anything but the bare necessities. My Hornby Dublo 3-rail layout survived until we needed to move to a bigger house when I was 32. Fortunately I managed to keep the HD stuff, I still have it along with some 1960s and 70s kit built wagons now on their third life extension. Due to financial constraints and work pressures my modelling activities virtually stopped for the best part of 20 years. I hope that in his years at University, besides the academic side, Josh learns that items have a price and they have a value which is not necessarily the same thing. My first 3-rail loco would probably fetch about £50 boxed, although the box is probably worth about £30 of that, but there is no way it leaves the house before I am crated up for transit to the other side. (OMDB) 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 23 minutes ago, 47423 said: I thought production numbers varied according to orders gained from retailers. If models are only announced when production is just about to go ahead or even already produced. Aren't they at risk of misjudging supply and demand? Maybe announcing only what is to preduced over the next 12-8 months only may have been a better compromise? True, but if I understand the situation, Bachmann are currently in a position that they have announced products waaaaaay in advance of expected delivery, to the point of pretty much noodling over an idea. They are now trying to play 'catch up' to show which of those announcements are realistically going to be available, and when. I suspect, but don't know for sure, that once they reach the right balance, they will move to a different announcement schedule, as per Hornby's. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGiraffe22 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 hours ago, Oldddudders said: I have heard the word ‘entitlement’ used about younger generations before. The real world must come as something of a shock. I can assure you, as someone working in retail, entitlement is very much alive and well in older generations. 1 15 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted February 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, atom3624 said: Makes you wonder what they would charge if they made the effort 'under the skin' - chassis with bearings, skew-wound 5-pole, etc - that they do with diesels and Hornby do with their steam locomotives!! I'm a huge fan of the appearance of Bachmann steam locomotives - body detail, paint finish, etc, but under the skin needs to catch up in the steam locomotives. Al. in fairness any Bachmann loco I’ve had has always been a good runner and I don’t think I’ve ever had a duff one, unlike Hornby . The very last Bachmann loco I got was the 64xx which was reasonably priced Before the prices went up dramatically 5 years ago when I stopped buying Bachmann. But that’s also a point the under the skin part quite often don’t have bearings , and they are three pole instead of 5 . In fact some newer models like the J72 and forthcoming 94XX have coreless motors . Yes that might suit some but not all. And the significant factor is that coreless motors are cheaper . And yet in general Bachmann tend to be higher priced. Edited February 4, 2020 by Legend Appalling spelling 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
89A Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 I suppose it's some comfort that so far the RRP for previously announced items has not gone up that much. e.g. the 117 from £309.95 to £314.95 (About 1.5%). Probably Bachmann will announce incremental price increases to go with incremental quarterly announcements. At one stage prices shot up by about 30% in less than a year. Lack of production due to the increasing health problem developing will no doubt put further pressure on. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted February 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Bon Accord said: I think one of the greater problems the likes of Josh's generation shall face is that it's very possible they'll never be able to afford such models to the degree that previous generations can, whether they be aged 18 or 68, in work or retired - the latter probably being somewhere in the early 70s age range by the time he gets there and likely still saddled with debt. Going off topic but I quite often think I was born at exactly the right time 1962 (aside from the Cuban missile crisis that is) . By 1979 I went to college to get a degree it was completely free and I got a grant for going, which included travelling expenses from Paisley to Glasgow . Lots of Class 126s and 303s and passed APT everyday at Shields Rd. Left with a degree went onto train as a CA at a salary of £3600 pa . So I managed my education with the huge support of my parents for free. But I was always taught good money management which is why even now I baulk at spending the huge amounts of money this hobby could cost if you bought everything you wanted (Rocket, Princess , Class 21, APT, Azuma, mk5s, Caley812 , ScotRail Mk3s) But these days being a student means you come out with debt , you have a burden round your neck to start with ! 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted February 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2020 Well, as someone said, "it is was it is". In the case of certain models, such as wagons, there will come a point whereby someone will undercut the RRP of these items, and potentially weaken the very market it exists to make a profit from. Without knocking any producer, it's a fine line between profit, and lost sales. A scale-length mineral train (50 wagons) is now approaching £1,500, once you hang the train onto a locomotive. That shows some serious dedication to the art of railway modelling. Happy modelling, Ian. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGiraffe22 Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Legend said: But these days being a student means you come out with debt , you have a burden round your neck to start with ! It doesn't help that in school, at least when I was doing my A Levels (which I have suddenly realised was a decade ago), they made us believe you HAD to go to uni to achieve anything, it was the be all and end all of existence! (I don't know if schools still do this?) I didn't get into uni, I was devastated at the time, but here I am a decade later, excelling in my career and owning my own home with my partner and 0 uni debt, heck my A Levels have remained largely irrelevant throughout my working life, absolutely no regrets there. =) somehow I managed to save for a mortgage deposit and afford model trains on various minimum wage jobs! Massive shout out to the parents for putting up with me and my partner living with them for several years, I know not everyone has that privilege... ANYWAY as I said way back, pleased to see that C Class coming out in another livery, we haven't yet seen it in Southern Maunsell livery with a 1xxx number, the previous one had an Axxx number, I wondered when / if they'd do it. =) that along with Hornby's sunshine H will do me it has made me hopeful for a sunshine E4 or H1/2 later in the year, we'll see! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Well if Bachmann announce a £400 Class AM10 emu in the next quarterly announcement I'll just sell my body to the oldies round here to be able to buy the four or five I'll want. Three months being a relatively toy boy to the local coffin dodgers should pay nicely, especially if I can persuade them to change their wills. So Bachmann, where's that AM10? You know it makes sense. 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcyg Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 4 hours ago, melmerby said: "Arriving Spring 2020", Coronavirus permitting? Ah, but coronavirus gets here in a few weeks. Bachman’s stuff takes several years 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted February 4, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2020 32 minutes ago, 47423 said: Sorry if it has been mentioned. I thought production numbers varied according to orders gained from retailers. If models are only announced when production is just about to go ahead or even already produced. Aren't they at risk of misjudging supply and demand? I think the present policy is for a catch-up period. Some of the things still to be delivered have been on pre-order with shops for several years, so they must have some idea of how many they hope to sell thus the price required to get the return on design and tooling in a reasonable time. Hopefully we will eventually get to the point when like Hornby's 78xxx they could say "We're doing a Jonhson 2F, and here's a 3D print from the CAD of the 5' 21/2" Belpaire firebox/Deeley cab version (yes please) which is going to tooling next month. EPs will be available for approval later this year. CADs for a 4' 101/2" chassis (yes please), Johnson cab (yes please), and a round top firebox (not at the moment thanks) will be produced when the current version has been approved for production." If they did that I would probably end up with four variants that I saw working in Birmingham and Black Country in the late 1950s. (Plastic runs and hides). PS. For those only into Diseasles , Blue Kettles or Green Kettles the variations of this class numbered around 900 locos which were built from 1875 to the early 1900s and could be found almost anywhere on the LMS system and many lasted into BR, the oldest being scrapped after 88 years service the early 1960s. There's plenty of scope for use as a trip loco on a wide variety of layouts. Many were rebuilt into the Midland 3F as already made by Bachmann. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojmiasto Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 10 hours ago, Paul.Uni said: I see the Birdcage carriages are set 143. What carriage numbers would they be? You're looking over 200 at least ... oh sorry, you said carriage numbers, not pounds! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manna Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 G'day Folks The Bus shelter, looks an absolute bargain, can't afford anything else........ manna 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lee Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Concerning prices, it does seem to me that Bachmann have significantly increased their prices. I noticed the MRP or whatever they call it of the new Birdcage Stock coaches. They aren't going to be an impulse buy for me anytime soon, although I did shell out for the earlier Maunsell Green ones when their price eased down a little. Last night I ordered a Bachmann 3F 0-6-0 tender locomotive from Kernow, for coming up to £64. If the price had been approaching £200 then I don't think that I would have bothered. The message seems to me to look for stuff that seems good, but that is closer to your preferred budget. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fezza Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Prices are killing the hobby for new entrants. I constantly hear parents at shows using words like 'ridiculous' 'mad' and suchlike when they see the price stickers for new stock. My small group of modern image modeller friends were all up for a 117. None of us will be buying at that price... they are basically asking £100 for an 00 gauge coach... 1 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted February 5, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2020 15 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said: I see price gripe is however anything but and is alive and thriving amongst us.Sadly the only remedy for this affliction is total abstinence or withdrawal to other spheres of interest. Golf? Fishing? Much cheaper!! Mike. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWRtrainman Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 35 minutes ago, fezza said: Prices are killing the hobby for new entrants. I constantly hear parents at shows using words like 'ridiculous' 'mad' and suchlike when they see the price stickers for new stock. My small group of modern image modeller friends were all up for a 117. None of us will be buying at that price... they are basically asking £100 for an 00 gauge coach... and Yet you and others who complain about prices getting too high for new entrants and kids seem to always point out the price of something you want. Never a genuine entry level product. There's never any mention of the Hornby Railroad, Bachmann junior or second hand options. I bought my grandson a Hornby train set for £50 this Christmas at ASDA - and picked up a second bigger one second hand at my local model shop. For £100 they've got two locos, 7 wagons and two complete ovals of track. Beats an iPhone which my Daughter has currently wasted £1000 on! 4 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) Golf?...... With some Drivers priced up to £500 and Putters at £250 plus, it suffers the same problem. New models every year that promise to turn you into a Ryder Cup golfer overnight. Thankfully the same solution awaits. Forget all the initial hype and wait a while. Within months the market cools and you can pick up said clubs for half price or less as sales fall short of optimistic forecasts. Same with TV’s. New models every year, so don’t buy in January. Sit tight and watch the price drop every quarter. Saved the best part of a £1000 waiting until October. Edited February 5, 2020 by gordon s 4 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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