Unidentified open

[jwealleans]

This came to me in a collection of part finished mainly GW wagon kits.  Whoever had accumulated them clearly knew his wagons as many had extra detailing, drawings in the packets and alterations to make different diagrams or variants.   I assume this was one of the latter and it hasn't been finished.  I'm guessing the basis is an ABS kit, most of the rest were, but can anybody suggest what he was intending to end up with?   He's started to remove the side strapping, presumably to replace with a different pattern, but the rest looks pretty much as intended.  

 

 

This is way out of my comfort zone, as any advice and ideas are gratefully received.

 

 

[JimC]

9ft or 10ft wheelbase? Scale 16ft or 17ft6 over headstocks? What's the scale width of the door? Vacuum brake or not? What brakes are on the other side?

[WillCav]

The main differences to look for to differentiate the many 5 plank diagrams are:

Brake gear - lever brake then Dean Churchward (DC) small lever then DC cross cornered then Morton (+ hybrid alterations to make cross cornered)

Length / wheelbase - 16'/9' then 17'6"/9' then 17'6"/10'

Planking - 5 equal then top plank wider then 4th plank wider

Door - flat door to sack truck door (bottom plank tapered out)

Diagonal strapping - curved near the bottom end, straight and straight with a gusset plate attached to the door frame strapping

 

Bold = known from the photo

The main thing to check is the length and wheelbase to narrow things down a bit.

 

regards

Will

[Il Grifone]

IIRC flat doors date from the era of Dean-Churchward brakes. This appears to have Morton brakes (from the left over right brakegear), but this is the side that would have the clutch. As it is pressing the lever down would take the brakes off.

 

As to diagram, I am away from my library so cannot  help.

[richbrummitt]

My guess is that it was intended to chop it down into a 4 plank-er. This may or may not work well depending on the answers to questions asked already about dimensions  and, as someone also pointed out above, the brakes appear to be assembled incorrectly. Some work still to do. 

[jwealleans]

I wondered whether that was it, or just changing the strapping position.   Yes, dimensions woudl have been helpful - I was too busy chuntering at my phone which had screwed up the other photos I took.   17'6" and 10' WB as far as I recall. 

 

Brakes are no problem.  I'll do an underside shot when I get home at the end of the week.

[WillCav]

If it is 17'6" then no 5 plankers had the flat door.

If 16' then possible diagrams are

O3, O9 non vac, some O11 or O14.

All of these had DC brakes of some kind or other when built. O3 and O14 are the best bets as most O9 were vac fitted and most O11 had GW self contained buffers.

Hope this helps...

Will

 

[NCB]

The other thing to look at is buffers. Dean or GW self-contained for 16' wagons, RCH for 17'6" wagons. If this is a 16' wagon looks like an O14 but that ought to have DC brakes not lever.

[Compound2632]

Choose from the whitemetal 5-plank open diagrams that have been available in kit form at some time in the past, mostly by ABS, as listed here.

Edited February 7, 2020 by Compound2632

[Craigw]

I think it is an ABS O11 kit. It has had the straight diagonals removed to change to curved ones. I do not understand why is has been fitted with RCH pattern lever brake though, it seems as if a few things are mixed up.

 

Craig W

[jwealleans]

So much for my memory.  16' long, 8' wide, 9' WB.

 

So that makes it an O11 but I need to change the buffers and brakes and make new strapping.  Have I got that right?

[Craigw]

1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

So much for my memory.  16' long, 8' wide, 9' WB.

 

So that makes it an O11 but I need to change the buffers and brakes and make new strapping.  Have I got that right?

 

Buffers should be self contained, straight diagonals and DC3 brakes. Not much to do

 

[Hal Nail]

2 hours ago, jwealleans said:

So much for my memory.  16' long, 8' wide, 9' WB.

 

So that makes it an O11 but I need to change the buffers and brakes and make new strapping.  Have I got that right?

ie undo the alterations, so doesn't really address what the point was in the first place!

[Penrhos1920]

O14 had curved (hockey stick) diagonals, laminated buffers & DCIII breaks.  As per this photo

 

Since the breaks are all wrong anyway, it’s not too much effort to make a good wagon that most won’t have.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Penrhos1920

[JimC]

I agree that the most likely intention of a conversion of an O11 kit by changing the side strapping was an O14. I wonder if he had found a photograph of an O14 that had been converted to Morton brakes, maybe after underframe damage and with the either side rule coming up. Stranger things happened in Swindon workshops. I think I might be inclined to continue with that: the effort of changing the brakes feels a bit OTT.

[corneliuslundie]

Did any of the O14s have the DC lever removed on the far side and a single lever brake added instead? I know it happened to some opens. That would make an interesting variant, and only one set of DC brakes to fit.

Jonathan

[WillCav]

The 1/2 DC 1/2 lever brake variants were of earlier DC types where the small lever was at the LH end of the wagon on one side. DC3 brakes on O14 are already RH lever both sides.

I'm not saying never - but would GW spend money and effort changing the brakes if already compliant?

It is an interesting conversion for earlier opens though. Some O3 were DC1 and could have had it.

Whatever you do with it, you'll need to add diagonals. Straight variants can easily be made with the parkside O11/15 kit so I'd go for the hockey stick type as in the O14 picture above (also on O3).

 

Will