Bachmann class 150 DMUs

[Class 158 productions]

Emailed Bachmann about the clash with 216, apparently their tooling only covers a handful of units in the gwr fleet, so they are sticking with it as 216. Annoying and disappointing after a large gestation. However it is accurate, I believe it was due to the seating.

[89A]

I see the RRP for the forthcoming GWR version has gone from £269.95 to £319.95 today.

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, 89A said:

I see the RRP for the forthcoming GWR version has gone from £269.95 to £319.95 today.

 

Wow, whilst I don't agree with most of the whinges at the cost of multiple units I expect it will be a hard sell at that rate.

 

I see the Northern one has gone up to £295 as well. I have one on order for £220 (£260 RRP minus the discount allowed), I think I will be declining the purchase if the price goes up another £30 TBH.

Edited March 1, 2021 by TomScrut

[No Decorum]

1 hour ago, 89A said:

I see the RRP for the forthcoming GWR version has gone from £269.95 to £319.95 today.

[adb968008]

7 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

Wow, whilst I don't agree with most of the whinges at the cost of multiple units I expect it will be a hard sell at that rate.

 

I see the Northern one has gone up to £295 as well. I have one on order for £220 (£260 RRP minus the discount allowed), I think I will be declining the purchase if the price goes up another £30 TBH.

It was only a year back people complained of a Rainbow respray Northern 156 at £280.. 

 

i’m not sure what to make of it, GWR 158 was “high” at £220 after discount (£259) yet it sold very well, they did multiple batches.

 

The fact the 117 and 158 sold well, you cant blame them testing the market a little more. Lets face it at £220 those two were going to sell very well, if they are £250 after discount, it will still sell sufficiently so as to not turn to dust overnight, but I suspect it will still sell.

 

flip side, it opens the doors wider for competitors to look twice at multiple units.

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by adb968008

[TomScrut]

8 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

It was only a year back people complained of a Rainbow respray Northern 156 at £280.. 

 

i’m not sure what to make of it, GWR 158 was “high” at £220 after discount (£259) yet it sold very well, they did multiple batches.

 

The fact the 117 and 158 sold well, you cant blame them testing the market a little more. Lets face it at £220 those two were going to sell very well, if they are £250 after discount, it will still sell sufficiently so as to not turn to dust overnight, but I suspect it will still sell.

 

Yes, that uplift is just enough to probably rule me out of a 150, just like £280 was enough to rule me out of a 156.

 

I get that they charge what they want/have to and people can take it or leave it. But if it rules people out who are on the fence then it's everyone's loss. I'd probably pay the £320 -15% for a Northern 158, because they are my favourite sprinter class.

[adb968008]

4 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

Yes, that uplift is just enough to probably rule me out of a 150, just like £280 was enough to rule me out of a 156.

 

I get that they charge what they want/have to and people can take it or leave it. But if it rules people out who are on the fence then it's everyone's loss. I'd probably pay the £320 -15% for a Northern 158, because they are my favourite sprinter class.

chances are you may have time to make that decision, and chance of a bigger discount in 6 -8 weeks after release.

 

The alternative is a mad scramble to buy one quick as you can before they dissapear.

 

I have 2 ea on order, now I don't have to rush to buy on day one any more, I’ll buy 1 each and wait and see on the other.

Edited March 2, 2021 by adb968008

[TomScrut]

6 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I have 2 ea on order, now I don't have to rush to buy on day one any more, I’ll buy 1 each and wait and see on the other.

 

I do have a Northern RT 156 on order, that to me is more important than the 150 as well.

 

As my area of interest is around York I am picking on Northern for the run of the mill DMUs but given I only really want 2 or 3 I am being fussy. 158 is my favourite, then 156. The 150 is just because there is no 158 at the moment TBH.

 

OTOH I think realistically I am going to work on a time range for the layout from late 2019 to present so actually a 142 would work too.

[Roy Langridge]

22 hours ago, 89A said:

I see the RRP for the forthcoming GWR version has gone from £269.95 to £319.95 today.

 

My benchmark is that a unit should be the equivalent cost of a loco and coach, each with similar functionality. So for the 150 the equivalent of a loco with direction lights and cab lights (approx £180) plus a DBSO (approx £80 rrp).

 

In this case we seem to have now headed significantly further north than that. I fear for the future of multiple unit sales, and I also assume we will see the cost of coaches and locos rising to match.

Roy

[Dicky L]

1 hour ago, TomScrut said:

 

I do have a Northern RT 156 on order, that to me is more important than the 150 as well.

 

As my area of interest is around York I am picking on Northern for the run of the mill DMUs but given I only really want 2 or 3 I am being fussy. 158 is my favourite, then 156. The 150 is just because there is no 158 at the moment TBH.

 

OTOH I think realistically I am going to work on a time range for the layout from late 2019 to present so actually a 142 would work too.

 

Like you Tom I find 2019 to present day the best era to work with, This allows for Northern Abellio livery unbranded units to run alongside the latest livery that Bachmann are set to release. There is also scope to run unbranded FGW 150s, Unbranded London Midland 150s,  FGW 153s, Unbranded Scotrail 156/158s, My constant source of frustration for that particular period is the constant branding changes to the white livery units making it near on impossible to stay current.

 

People who know my Chesborough North layout will be aware that I have had several units repainted and modified. Looking at the latest pricing it has probably cost me significantly less to go down this route using bargain second hand units. 

 

Looking at Bachmanns latest offering I am not entirely sure whether it is 150275 as per Bachmanns website or 150220 as per Bachmanns photographs. Does anyone know the answer to this, Apologies if it has been covered elsewhere.

 

Is this latest version a newly tooled Class 150/2? or is it simply a slightly modified body on the old chassis, I welcome the fact that Bachman appear to have removed a window to represent the disabled toilet modifications. It’s disappointing that the headlights appear to be the old style with the old markers. 

 

 

 

 

[adb968008]

42 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

In this case we seem to have now headed significantly further north than that. I fear for the future of multiple unit sales, and I also assume we will see the cost of coaches and locos rising to match.

 

But only with one manufacturer, a bit disproportionate to the others.

The 150/2, I dunno, the lessons learned was there, the 32-939DS at £369 has been shelfware for years, even now discounted at £269 at several retailers, it draws less attention, as its second hand peers are c£100, and not much worse for detail, but now its livery is out of date, imho started £120 over priced, it should have been £240.. that was 4 years ago, to me now its not worth more than £180-£200, hence I still dont have one, and from the looks of it, neither do many others.

 

Modern image is a fashion accessory, once its out of fashion shifting it will be hard, high prices delay purchases, and ultimately shorten the fashion season... Northern 150/2 livery is already out of date..so the window is shrinking fast... I think will sell, but it wont fly.

 

But it does open the doors to other manufacturers to sit up and take notice, as to what is possible at what price.. that might be the win here.

 

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, Dicky L said:

Is this latest version a newly tooled Class 150/2? or is it simply a slightly modified body on the old chassis

 

The body is a new tooling to represent the changes to the toilet IIRC, but not a new chassis.

[TomScrut]

16 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

But it does open the doors to other manufacturers to sit up and take notice, as to what is possible at what price.. that might be the win here.

 

I think that's the thing that is happening with prices now TBH. The prices are not beyond what I will pay for something I really really want/must haves.

 

There are loads of things on my layout that don't fall into that category as I felt they were at a price I could justify. It might be that things are going to end up where people are buying 50% less stuff and paying 50% more for what they do buy.

 

But I expect it will be a self fulfilling prophecy that then the price goes up further still because runs are smaller because people are buying less.

[fezza]

It is a big price hike when you think N gauge dmus are around the £150 mark. The new 5 car 80x from Kato is likely to arrive around the £190 mark and the new Dapol Voyager about the same...

Edited March 2, 2021 by fezza

[TomScrut]

10 minutes ago, fezza said:

It is a big price hike when you think N gauge dmus are around the £150 mark. The new 5 car 80x from Kato is likely to arrive around the £190 mark and the new Dapol Voyager about the same...

 

And a 5 car 800 can be bought from Hornby for £355.

[Dicky L]

1 hour ago, TomScrut said:

 

The body is a new tooling to represent the changes to the toilet IIRC, but not a new chassis.

Disappointing they have not modernised the headlight cluster when the opportunity presented itself. I also find the interior lighting in these units flickers a lot and tend to remove them. I prefer the train tech lighting strips for that reason.

 

With regard to 150220 and 150275 I notice the real 150275 does in fact have the light clusters painted yellow which may explain the shift in number.

 

I already have 150220 in my fleet of repaints though with the toilet windows mods already in place so if I did buy the latest Bachmann offering I would have to renumber and perhaps add the bold NORTHERN 2021 decals. 

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, TomScrut said:

There are loads of things on my layout that don't fall into that category as I felt they were at a price I could justify. It might be that things are going to end up where people are buying 50% less stuff and paying 50% more for what they do buy.

Tbh I heard that argument when Bachmann uplifted the price of the Compound to c£135 back in 2012, when much around the same was c£100.

 

Later the class 43 pushed the envelope when it went from c£73 to c£110 in 2016, same too for the Stanier portholes.

 

Both cases, the first model to push the price envelope paid the price, with slow sales and ultimately a discount back to ordinary levels, but as the fashion window had closed, they became shelfware, even when reduced.

But the hobby hasnt shrunk, if anything its grown.

 

I think people dont reduce their purchases, they just buy something else, and in the same time period a dozen or so new figleaf oo gauge manufacturers have appeared and since grown considerably. Bachmann feels to be going something like Wrenn... niche, nice but expensive. They have a huge range of supporting businesses in kits, bits etc, so If the model is working for them then I dont see anything changing.

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by adb968008

[TomScrut]

28 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

niche, nice but expensive

 

Newly tooled stuff I can't disagree with you. It's the fact that the stuff that has been around for years leaping up that raises my eyebrows. A newly tooled Heljan 47, including what I presume is Gaugemaster's cut on their commissions, is available for about £10 more than a Bachmann 57 IIRC.

 

30 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

so If the model is working for them then I dont see anything changing.

 

30 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

so new figleaf oo gauge manufacturers have appeared

 

And the second statement there might be the problem with the first. The marketplace has changed a lot since then. I have more money's worth of stuff on pre order with Hornby, Accurascale and Revolution than I do with Bachmann, but given my only interest is present day or thereabouts that might not be of surprise or concern to Bachmann. That said it would change quickly if they did a present day 90 or Northern 158 in the next releases.

[adb968008]

59 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Newly tooled stuff I can't disagree with you. It's the fact that the stuff that has been around for years leaping up that raises my eyebrows. A newly tooled Heljan 47, including what I presume is Gaugemaster's cut on their commissions, is available for about £10 more than a Bachmann 57 IIRC.

 

 

 

And the second statement there might be the problem with the first. The marketplace has changed a lot since then. I have more money's worth of stuff on pre order with Hornby, Accurascale and Revolution than I do with Bachmann, but given my only interest is present day or thereabouts that might not be of surprise or concern to Bachmann. That said it would change quickly if they did a present day 90 or Northern 158 in the next releases.

As long as Bachmann has niche items in their back catalog, no one else is going to touch them for decades.

 

Things like Turbostar, Sprinter, Cep, Bep.. they are Bachmanns for the next decade plus, they can chomp out a batch at whatever price they want, no ones going to do anything about it.

 

Wrenn had a similar niche on things like the 8F, Cobo, Bullied Rebuilt etc for decades... they were charging £250+ at one point.. in 1990’s money, Hattons were cashing in on Wrenn big style, even though the toolings were 40+ years old way back then. At swapmeets people were buying wrenn locos for more money than the cost of the car they were driving it home in. The popular ones were nibbled off and declined in price over time, just as we are seeing with Bachmann...but it took several decades for the Unrebuilt MN to be duplicated, which I think just about closes the book.

my worry is Bachmann does the Electrostar. I think Its going to hurt the modern image hobby at £500.. some people will lose interest give up,  no one else will do it.. my best hope is Hornby do it as railroad plus.. minimal extra details nice paint job, at £150 for the outers, and seller inners separate.. gives everyone an entry level, encourages the hobby through all ages and gives a desire for youngers to “upgrade” their models & skills through affordability, and gives the hobby a future after 2019. Trouble is Hornby still defines a youngster as a 1990s teenager..

Edited March 2, 2021 by adb968008

[TomScrut]

57 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Turbostar

 

Yeah but the current Turbostars don't really have a place in the market given they aren't DCC ready. Although as I have said elsewhere on here I do think they would have a place if they were DCC ready at the right price.

 

59 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

my worry is Bachmann does the Electrostar

 

I'm amazed nobody has yet TBH. But it's backward thinking I reckon to consider it at what could be near the end of their lives. I suppose there are plenty of liveries to go at.

 

If it were me I'd be keeping an eye on Aventras, Desiro City and Civity to pick classes with as much tooling commonality/geographical range/liveries.

[Kaput]

Seems a bit overkill that the price of these DCC ready is getting close to the factory sound price of a Realtrack 156 which is a higher quality and more advanced model....

[66738]

7 hours ago, Dicky L said:

Disappointing they have not modernised the headlight cluster when the opportunity presented itself. I also find the interior lighting in these units flickers a lot and tend to remove them. I prefer the train tech lighting strips for that reason.

 

With regard to 150220 and 150275 I notice the real 150275 does in fact have the light clusters painted yellow which may explain the shift in number.

 

I already have 150220 in my fleet of repaints though with the toilet windows mods already in place so if I did buy the latest Bachmann offering I would have to renumber and perhaps add the bold NORTHERN 2021 decals. 

150275’s yellow light clusters didn’t last long. They soon turned back to the standard black, and were indeed black when I drove it a couple of weeks ago. 

66738

[Shoey]

Price hike had best contribute towards research and technology into more intricate liveries such as the FGW ‘local lines’ ! Would be happy to pay the prices if they managed to achieve this on their 158’s aswell as their 150’s. Doubt it’ll happen but I can live in hope. But I suppose we have to expect price increases with the world we live in nowadays. Hopefully with light at the end of the tunnel now and as each day passes we are another day closer to some form of ‘normality’ perhaps a little overtime will be on the cards to enable me to still go ahead and purchase a GWR 150, whatever the price does end up at once they hit the shelves.

[Class 158 productions]

The northern and GWR ones have now been pushed back to May/June from April/May although rails advertised the /1 as near. 

[TravisM]

I wonder if people would walk into Tesco after 6 months and then complain that the price of baked beans have gone up?  Things go up, deal with it.