motorising plastic kit prairie.

[midlands]

Good evening all.

 

Late returner to modeling due to retirement and health...So, before diving in head first and building baseboards and getting in deepI thought I'd try my hand at a few kit builds to test my endurance levels.  anyway, I have this Dapol kit of the prairie tank, which I'm hoping to build very carefully, maybe even do a bit of bashing to modify it slightly, but eventually run it on the tracks via a substitute chassis.

 

That is the question chaps, is there such a thing as an etched brass/ die cast chassis in the 2-4-2 formation I can use with the plastic kit or is this a pipe dream?.

 

Thanks

 

Roger.

[kevinlms]

There is a similar topic on this. The short answer is - don't bother, unless you are very keen to prove that you can.

 

 

[midlands]

ah yes, but i'm not planning to use any plastic running gear or wheels, nor the plastic chassis, but rather mount the body on a complete and running donor chassis, from a cheap damaged rtr model perhaps, or another source?

Thanks for the pointer though I havent given up just yet .

[Steamport Southport]

You want a proper etched chassis for the Airfix/Dapol/Kitmaster Prairie?

 

Try Comet. Now made by Wizard.

 

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/gwr-large-prairie-2-6-2t-chassis-pack-lcp20/

 

http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/

 

Instructions with further details here.

 

http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/data/Catalog/pdf/LF20.pdf

 

South Eastern Finecast also do a kit and a separate chassis kit.

 

http://www.sefinecast.co.uk/

 

However it might be easier getting a RTR Airfix/Mainline/Dapol/Hornby version and converting or detailing that. As an example.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/518068/airfix_gmr_great_model_railways_54150_po63_class_61xx_prairie_2_6_2t_6110_in_gwr_green_pre_owned_noisy_and_wobbly_runner_/stockdetail.aspx

 

 

Jason

[midlands]

Thank you Jason. just what I wanted to see.  The brand new chassis from wizard/Comet would be my last choice due to the cost, The chassis cost isnt prohibitive but those chassis are bare bones chassis and require the extra cost of motor, running gear and wheels. quite a good chunk of change..

 

I have my eye on ex-rtr prairie chassis by bachman for a reasonable price which would cover most needs all in one go. If it fits!

 

we shall see.

 

Roger

[BernardTPM]

I think you'll find the Bachmann Prairie is a 'Small Prairie' rather than a 'Large Prairie' which will be too short.

[melmerby]

How about doing a psuedo County Tank? (large 4-4-2T)

A Hornby R/R 4-4-0 chassis from a County might fit, add a trailing truck and presto, a load of pants or maybe not

It won't be accurate but might look the part.

 

I've been toying with the idea for years and even knocked a bit of a chassis from brass.

[DCB]

The Dapol Prairie is not really suitable for motorising.   The Dapol has a flat top to the chassis under the tanks which needs to be cut out to make room for a motor.  It is not a body shell.  It just does not make much sense to start with a Dapol for a working loco.  Back in 1960 something, it was OK,   People use to put them on Triang Princess chassis but the wheelbase is all wrong.

However since then Airfix/Hornby have made a better Prairie of the same class  which does not have the Dapol moulded lining and is designed as a working loco.    None of the 00 RTR Prairie chassis are much use in my experience.   The Airfix is badly designed with square axle holes and runs rough, Hornby is better but the plastic slide bars break and spares are like hens teeth.    Like wise the Bachmann 43X which would fit has plastic slide bars.

A Comet or similar  chassis under a Hornby body would be good.

One of my 61XX has a Wills body and Wills cast white metal chassis and theb others are Farish on Triang Hall Chassis rewheeled etc.

As a static model Bachmann 43XX/ Manor wheels which are readily available as so many have been scrapped would make a huge difference to appearance but to me tarting up a Dapol 61XX is more hassle than its worth.

I did once cut one in half and use the back and front halves in a low relief engine shed.

The County Tank suggestion only works for the first of class as the later ones had a narrower cab. They all went by about 1935 anyway.

[midlands]

Thanks chaps, I think I just bought a totally useless class 45xx, As BernardTPM says, The Dapol/kitmaster prairie is 61xx class....DOH!

 

I guess some research is needed on my part to assess wether or not the 45xx chassis can be adapted, not sure of wheelbase lengths or driving wheel difference between the two class yet.

Hornby does offer a rtr 61xx chassis, allthough DavidCBroads post has rather put me off the whole idea. converting to a County Tank is interesting idea melmerby, ya never know.

 

This whole project was started by my interest in learning the black arts of kit building and an impulse bye of the prairie kit,,,GWR stuff isnt my cuppa tea anyway as you might guess from my forum name I'm a LMS fan.

 

I can see I need to research the loco to see what options there is open to me, other then just building a stationary object and quickly moving on...(I have started collecting various waggon kits to practise on) also, some rtr waggons that will need work.

On a side note, I have become obsessed with cranes for some strange and unaccountable reason...having spent the last two weeks hoovering up any oo railway related crane models (eccept for that really expensive bachman 75 ton thing).

 

many thanks

 

Roger

 

[Londontram]

Check out Oxford rail as there bringing out a new crane that should help feed your passion.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 hour ago, midlands said:

...This whole project was started by my interest in learning the black arts of kit building ...

Roger,

 

It's twenty years since my re-entry to railway modelling after the typical time out for career, family and all the truck of life; and I kicked off getting my hand back in by knocking around RTR and kits. I probably 'wasted' a little money, duplicating what quite rapidly emerged in RTR, but the experience was worthwhile, and I am still knocking about bits and pieces to produce things that are not to be had RTR. I have just acquired an H-D 8F body shell to fit with the current Hornby 8F drive, to make a properly weighty 8F which will have the traction the modern light plastic bodied model lacks. It's all great fun!

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, midlands said:

Thanks chaps, I think I just bought a totally useless class 45xx, As BernardTPM says, The Dapol/kitmaster prairie is 61xx class....DOH!

 

I guess some research is needed on my part to assess wether or not the 45xx chassis can be adapted, not sure of wheelbase lengths or driving wheel difference between the two class yet.

Hornby does offer a rtr 61xx chassis, allthough DavidCBroads post has rather put me off the whole idea. converting to a County Tank is interesting idea melmerby, ya never know.

 

 

many thanks

 

Roger

 

The 45XX is totally different., smaller wheels, (4' 7½" against 5' 8") shorter wheelbase.(5' 6" + 6' 0" against 7' 0 "+ 7' 9") not much use for anything but a 45XX

My County Tank musings are these days because I have a Graham Farish diecast large prarie body , which I bought complete but the chassis, motor & wheels weren't up to much and I'd like to do something with it.

[midlands]

noted Londontram, had my eye on said crane for some time and on preorder, correction, went back and checked and its another one on preorder. the oxford rail crane is a copy of the early Hornby steam 15 ton crane which is not available just yet...I bought 3 of the early Hornby ones to paint, renumber and refit new wheels ect. but thanks for the tip.

 

34theletterbetweenB&D,  appreciate your comments, and hmmmmm 8f huh? great stuff.

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by midlands

[midlands]

Thanks

18 minutes ago, melmerby said:

The 45XX is totally different., smaller wheels, (4' 7½" against 5' 8") shorter wheelbase.(5' 6" + 6' 0" against 7' 0 "+ 7' 9") not much use for anything but a 45XX

My County Tank musings are these days because I have a Graham Farish diecast large prarie body , which I bought complete but the chassis, motor & wheels weren't up to much and I'd like to do something with it.

Thanks for that.  I guess the prairie project goes back on the shelf for now untill either a suitable chassis turns up or I use the kit parts for something else....it's all a learning curve and all good.

 

I'm steadily aquireing kits to work with in the meantime..

[midlands]

I found ebay is good for kits also, old AND new.

[kevinlms]

8 hours ago, midlands said:

 

 

This whole project was started by my interest in learning the black arts of kit building and an impulse bye of the prairie kit,,,GWR stuff isnt my cuppa tea anyway as you might guess from my forum name I'm a LMS fan.

 

 

 

Listen to your heart and forget this GWR nonsense!

 

[midlands]

Indeed!! well said Kevin

 

When I do build a layout, it's going to be a very compressed wellingborough during the years 1950-1960 ish. during that time wellingborough was a big depot and enjoyed a roundhouse and large goods buildings with large fiddle yards.

 

LMS and MR kits are flowing in from all sources. but I'd like to get my hands on some diagrams so I can scratch build waggons. Like the 6 wheel brake van advertised on here... so any ideas where I can get/buy waggon diagrams and or track diagrams specific  to wellingborough.

 

I now own a couple of the 4f fowler 0-6-0's, reading on the midland railway society website MR consist mainly of 0-6-0 and 4-4-0 due to the small engine policy of the then top brass. But if anyone has better information please feel free to let me know. Also, the earlier 0-6-0's built at Derby had round topped fireboxes as apposed to the belpaire...I would love to produce a couple of those for the layout...again, anyone has any ideas please speak up.

 

The layout will be later after i've accumilated stock and prepare some SPACE in my tiny humble abode..haha..

 

laters

Roger

[hayfield]

22 hours ago, AlexHolt said:

The Dapol model is only good as a static model, I too tried to motorise it and came to the conclusion that it was best as either a scrapyard condition loco or a static loco in a siding that won't move. Its too difficult and in all honesty the Airfix RTR Model is probably cheaper than trying to motorise the Dapol Kit. 

 

If you're looking for some kits to try and do, I'd recommend going to shows/exhibitions. A lot of the second hand traders there will have built and unbuilt kits that will need a bit of work to get them going, its good practice and much cheaper than buying the kits brand new. A few of the locos I bought last year were kits that needed a bit of restoration work and its really good value for money if you can get it working. Golden Arrow and Silver Fox are also some good brands, they are resin kits that fit on to a RTR chassis so are very easy to complete. 

 

 

I have a motorised Airfix (kit) Prairie which I bought second hand, the chassis is something like a Bristol models kit with Romford wheels. Worth doing all those years back and runs very well, but not up to today's standards. Start of with the odd RTR loco and buy some plastic wagon kits, then slowly progress until you feel confidant to build a loco kit

[Il Grifone]

On 07/02/2020 at 18:59, melmerby said:

How about doing a psuedo County Tank? (large 4-4-2T)

A Hornby R/R 4-4-0 chassis from a County might fit, add a trailing truck and presto, a load of pants or maybe not

It won't be accurate but might look the part.

 

I've been toying with the idea for years and even knocked a bit of a chassis from brass.

 

I did this many years ago when it was still a Kitmaster kit (based on a photo rather than a drawing) shortening the chassis to 0-4-2T and adding a Dublo Duchess bogie to fill the gap at the front. I thought it looked good at the time - It didn't of course. The County tank is more like the Churchward version of the prairie tank (as one would expect). They went in the 1920s GWR cull of 4 coupled locomotives.

My attempt at motorising the same kit wasn't very successful either.

 

The body from the Airfix R-T-R model would be a better starting point IMHO

My example runs quietly as a chassis, but noisy with the body in place. Attempts to damp it have failed. Has anyone any idesa?

[melmerby]

19 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

 

I did this many years ago when it was still a Kitmaster kit (based on a photo rather than a drawing) shortening the chassis to 0-4-2T and adding a Dublo Duchess bogie to fill the gap at the front. I thought it looked good at the time - It didn't of course. The County tank is more like the Churchward version of the prairie tank (as one would expect). They went in the 1920s GWR cull of 4 coupled locomotives.

My attempt at motorising the same kit wasn't very successful either.

 

The body from the Airfix R-T-R model would be a better starting point IMHO

My example runs quietly as a chassis, but noisy with the body in place. Attempts to damp it have failed. Has anyone any idesa?

First withdrawal 1931, last 1934, which fits in with my mainly 1930ish GWR.

[Il Grifone]

The cull did drag on into the early thirties. Only the smaller classes survived.

 

Lesser railways were still building 4-4-0s at this time....

[Il Grifone]

20 minutes ago, AlexHolt said:

 

With kits I've done I've found that stuffing newspaper in the boiler barrel reduces a lot of the noise. The kits I've done this to are metal kits so not sure if it has the same effect on plastic kits.

 

Thanks I'll try that. I did try the bunker in the past without success.

 

By the 50s/60s almost all wagons were pooled, so MR/LMS wagons are not enough (slippery slope warning...).

Edited February 12, 2020 by Il Grifone

[PatB]

You could always go old school, with some strip brass, an X04 and a set of "close enough" Romfords. Probably no harder than hacking up a r-t-r chassis to suit, and appropriate for the era of the kit. 

[hayfield]

Whichever way you look at it the cost will be so prohibitive, a complete set of Markit wheels would be in the region of £54 including axles and crankpins, a motor Between £10 & £25, gearboxes £10 to £18. Now there are ways of reducing this price considerably, simply by buying both used or unused items second hand,  but unless you are very lucky it will take both time and planning.

 

You could build your own chassis but what about valve gear etc, certainly etched chassis from either Southeastern Finecast or Comet look very appealing at £36

 

Is the body up to detailing when you consider that older Airfix RTR bodies are far superior. Or wait for one of the older Airfix conversions (Simplex?) come up second hand, buy it cheaply and do it up

 

If you want to make something why not go for something like this

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/wills-finecast-gwr-U1-ex-taff-vale/392679913043?hash=item5b6d8bf653:g:Pi4AAOSw2WheNxKh

Looks complete with a RTR chassis, you could degrade the glue with paint stripper, then start from scratch, or just finish the job which has been started. There may be opportunities to super detail, or change some parts for better quality items. If any parts are missing Southeastern Finecast will sell replacement parts. And in future the option to build an etched brass replacement chassis. 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

 

If you want to make something why not go for something like this

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/wills-finecast-gwr-U1-ex-taff-vale/392679913043?hash=item5b6d8bf653:g:Pi4AAOSw2WheNxKh

Looks complete with a RTR chassis, you could degrade the glue with paint stripper, then start from scratch, or just finish the job which has been started. There may be opportunities to super detail, or change some parts for better quality items. If any parts are missing Southeastern Finecast will sell replacement parts. And in future the option to build an etched brass replacement chassis. 

The chassis is the recommended Hornby Dublo/Wrenn R1 chassis, which has a totally incorrect wheelbase, the wheels are not particularly good either.

The motor in mine was noisy and I have replaced it with a Mashima and replaced  the wheels with Romford/Markits.

The trailing truck in the kit is pretty rubbish as well, it's whitemetal and it would benefit from an etched replacement.

TBH the body is OK but IMHO it needs a better/upgraded chassis.

Edited February 13, 2020 by melmerby