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motorising plastic kit prairie.


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The standard Hornby Dublo R1 chassis is quite good for its age and performs well, accepted if components are worn or faulty performance will suffer. Its of its time and allows those who do not like chassis building or require a cheaper option an alternative

 

Changing the Wheels for Markit ones certainly will improve looks, and in the case of this chassis easy to do

 

Southeastern Finecast now do an etched version of the R1 chassis, granted will not alter the wheelbase but with brake gear will look far superior and allow a decent motor and gearbox selection 

 

But this package allows an easy entry into loco building at a modest price.

 

A new kit from SEF is £45, the etched chassis is £35 + wheels motor and gears

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1 hour ago, hayfield said:

The standard Hornby Dublo R1 chassis is quite good for its age and performs well, accepted if components are worn or faulty performance will suffer. Its of its time and allows those who do not like chassis building or require a cheaper option an alternative

 

 

Mine was a brand new Wrenn one bought at the same time as the body kit. (I've still got the R1 body, maybe I should get a chassis for it?)

The motor was noisier than I expected and the centre flangeless wheels just had to go and I changed them all once it was all built and running, so would have used original Romford wheels.

About the same time I also bought the 94XX kit and Triang Jinty chassis, which also got Romford wheels.

Edited by melmerby
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On my rebuilt/newly built locos etched chassis and can motors with gearboxes are the order of the day, but it comes at a cost. I use Romford/Markit wheels out of choice (ease of fitting), though I feel Gibson look better. On unrebuilt locos I still have a few with open frame motors and the odd one on a modified chassis, certainly can motors with decent gearboxes are far superior, but some of the older motors can be good performers.

 

As for someone who has little experience and or wishes to keep to a modest budget, the option I showed I believe is a good one, certainly on cost and takes the pressure off building a running chassis. Simple modifications can be carried out later once more experience and confidence is gained and funds allow. Most of us still have to work to a budget. Coming back to a hobby and starting all over again cost money, more so if you kept little or nothing

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In an attempt to put you off I went up into the loft today

70.jpeg.d07ada05704859cb067532f9c513cefd.jpeg

 

One Airfix Prairie, motorised I guess in the 60's

 

71.jpeg.ab5cf2e466642c9c327cfcd9217887aa.jpeg72.jpeg.891feb0462b1f679c8f3f565d11a5e95.jpeg

 

Quite an engineering feat, a very old motor, but with a flywheel, Eames brass wheels home made cylinder rods and coupling + connecting rods and body fixing pillar. Works exceptionally well for a loco of its age and perhaps worth the trouble when built

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On 14/02/2020 at 17:27, hayfield said:

In an attempt to put you off I went up into the loft today

70.jpeg.d07ada05704859cb067532f9c513cefd.jpeg

 

One Airfix Prairie, motorised I guess in the 60's

 

71.jpeg.ab5cf2e466642c9c327cfcd9217887aa.jpeg72.jpeg.891feb0462b1f679c8f3f565d11a5e95.jpeg

 

Quite an engineering feat, a very old motor, but with a flywheel, Eames brass wheels home made cylinder rods and coupling + connecting rods and body fixing pillar. Works exceptionally well for a loco of its age and perhaps worth the trouble when built

very nice work, i'm impressed.

 

Talking of wills kits, If I were to attempt a white metal cast kit I'd rather it was one of the midland/lms variaty,

I found this one on the bay, do you think there is a chance of getting a rolling chassis to fit? the kit is rather old..https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wills-Finecast-OO-Scale-Gauge-LMS-4F-Fowler-Goods-Loco-Kit/333510156375?hash=item4da6c12057:g:6rAAAOSwdvxeNvBl

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, midlands said:

very nice work, i'm impressed.

 

Talking of wills kits, If I were to attempt a white metal cast kit I'd rather it was one of the midland/lms variaty,

I found this one on the bay, do you think there is a chance of getting a rolling chassis to fit? the kit is rather old..https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wills-Finecast-OO-Scale-Gauge-LMS-4F-Fowler-Goods-Loco-Kit/333510156375?hash=item4da6c12057:g:6rAAAOSwdvxeNvBl

 

 

 

Wills do an etched chassis for their current kit (FC159) for £37:50 but you would still need Wheels, Motor & gears. (another £60 - £80) It ends up quite expensive

Maybe a Bachmann 4F or just a chassis? Even that could be expensive if you can't get the chassis on it's own.

 

Kit building these days is not cheap, (unless you can get a cheap unbuilt S/H one that is complete with chassis & wheels).

You could look for kits at a Model railway show, they are often the cheapest option.

There was a stand* at Warley that had a load of S/H (as in owned by someone else, but otherwise new and unbuilt) and they were way below the new from the retailers price.

 

*Edit I bought acomplete unmade Finecast GWR Metro kit complete with Chassis, Gibson Wheels, Romford gearbox & Mashima motor for £65

 

Retraction!

 

 

 

Edited by melmerby
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24 minutes ago, melmerby said:

*Edit I bought acomplete unmade Finecast GWR Metro kit complete with Chassis, Gibson Wheels, Romford gearbox & Mashima motor for £65

 wow, bargain since you got everything needed for the price of the kit. those wheels arent cheap items for starters. :)

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50 minutes ago, melmerby said:

*Edit I bought acomplete unmade Finecast GWR Metro kit complete with Chassis, Gibson Wheels, Romford gearbox & Mashima motor for £65

 

 

21 minutes ago, midlands said:

 wow, bargain since you got everything needed for the price of the kit. those wheels arent cheap items for starters. :)

Sorry I'm talking total rubbish, as usual.

The Kit was £65, (about a third off new)

The wheels etc. I bought.

Edited by melmerby
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What was the Wheel base and wheel size on these tanks? Where they not tank versions of the 2-6-0s. Find an old Mainline or Bachmann 2-6-0 chassis?

Easier option but not so accurate is to  use one of the current Hornby or Bachmann 0-6-0 chassis, the Hornby chassis is available separately. Behind those cylinders and under those tanks the small wheel size is not so obvious. Hornby option definitely  the most likely of success.

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On 12/02/2020 at 14:13, AlexHolt said:

 

With kits I've done I've found that stuffing newspaper in the boiler barrel reduces a lot of the noise. The kits I've done this to are metal kits so not sure if it has the same effect on plastic kits.

You would be better off stuffing ballast, as heavy as you can, on plastic kits, to improve haulage.  The noise is amplified by the interior if the model acting as a sound box, so filling as much space as possible will deaden it. 

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Motorising a Dapol kit loco (I did a few in my misspent yoof) with a suitable running RTR chassis is possible, but pointless in the case of this kit which is not as good a model as even the old Airfix RTR.  Mine, built when I was in my early teens, used an old Rovex Black Princess chassis hacksawed to death, not my greatest contribution to fine scale modelling, but it ran well enough by the miserable standards of those days and was not the worst of my misdeeds. 

 

But building the kit will help develop technique and skill, and it is always satisfying to get the motion all working properly.  It will also ground you in painting and finishing, experience that will stand you in good stead later.  The loco can go on a display shelf or do service as a shed lurker. 
 


 

 

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10 hours ago, midlands said:

very nice work, i'm impressed.

 

Talking of wills kits, If I were to attempt a white metal cast kit I'd rather it was one of the midland/lms variaty,

I found this one on the bay, do you think there is a chance of getting a rolling chassis to fit? the kit is rather old..https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wills-Finecast-OO-Scale-Gauge-LMS-4F-Fowler-Goods-Loco-Kit/333510156375?hash=item4da6c12057:g:6rAAAOSwdvxeNvBl

 

 

 

 

Firstly the Southeastern Finecast 3f whilst being the same loco it is made to a different specification. Its one of SEF's revised kits with a bespoke etched brass loco and tender chassis. Has cab interior detail with the motor housed within the boiler/firebox castings. I have found that the SEF castings usually are of better quality and made from a better alloy

 

The Wills 4F was designed to fit on to the Hornby Jinty chassis with the motor in the cab, later on a cast whitemetal chassis was produced. 

 

77.jpeg.8977a9154f98234a0defda83bca5876f.jpeg

 

Wills then produced an etched brass replacement chassis FC102 designed for the X03/4, Romford Bulldog, MW/MRRC MW005 motors, having no brake gear (I built this one as a free running chassis to test EM gauge turnouts

 

78.jpeg.4942f067ee95013e2860985344ace03a.jpeg

 

Southeastern finecast now produce a revised version FC202 which has brake gear and EM/P4 chassis spacers as well as 00 gauge ones, now missing the old openframe motor fitting

 

Both these two chassis are designed to fit Wills bodies that use the Jinty chassis, both being the tender loco versions

 

There are also versions for tank locos FC100 & FC200, Wills and SEF variants with Triang / Hornby Rear fitting and guard irons at both ends

Also the FC101 & FC 201 which is a direct replacement for the Hornby Dublo/Wrenn R1 chassis

 

79.jpeg.3a9b6bb1ba9099b991d8bd18ad494f25.jpeg

 

The Wills cast brass chassis, designed for the X03/4, Romford Bulldog, MW/MRRC MW005 motors. I cannot find my Wills FC101 chassis (R1 replacement) at the moment

Edited by hayfield
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I posted the earlier reply a bit prematurely, in one way £40 is a reasonable price, but to get a decent chassis you have to add £35 to the price. On the other hand you could for the time being modify a Jinty chassis and have a cheap loco. I myself will not buy older kits which when the cost of additional parts greatly reduces the savings on a new one. In this instance if you buy the kit and a new chassis you have only just over £20 to pay for the additional castings. If it were a discontinued kit its worth it

 

However someone suggested looking for other second hand models, here is one built with an older chassis casting

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wills-Kit-Built-LMS-4F-Loco-Body-And-Tender-00-Gauge/124082618552?hash=item1ce3e680b8:g:c00AAOSwzEdeOD6G

Ypo have a much bigger leeway to buy motor wheels and gears, which at a latter stage could be upgraded to a better chassis & motor. Repainting and detailing the loco could be good experience, will need new coupling rods though

 

Here is a Wills R1 replacement chassis (you may have to buy coupling rods)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wills-Finecast-0-6-0-Chassis/124085097134?hash=item1ce40c52ae:g:wdwAAOSwXA9eIynQ

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1 hour ago, hayfield said:

 

Also the FC101 & FC 201 which is a direct replacement for the Hornby Dublo/Wrenn R1 chassis I cannot find my Wills FC101 chassis (R1 replacement) at the moment

Is the wheelbase still the same as the HD R1 chassis?

If so it's wrong for both the R1 and the Taff Vale/GWR U1.

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1 hour ago, melmerby said:

Is the wheelbase still the same as the HD R1 chassis?

If so it's wrong for both the R1 and the Taff Vale/GWR U1.

 

Its a replacement chassis for the R1 chassis, it is correct for what it is. So if you have a beloved R1 but require a superior chassis its available. If you require a R1 scale chassis Branchlines do an etched one. Whilst the R1 is a revised kit it still uses the FC202 chassis, no idea why the chassis was not updated, perhaps because the Branchlines one existed ? The U1 is still in its original Wills format

 

Wills like many similar companies designed many of their kits to fit on to RTR chassis, over time they started to supply what they called special chassis. Southeastern Finecast have revised most of their kits using bespoke etched brass chassis in most but not all, and adding extra details especially cab interiors. There are still several kits which have not been revised yet, about half of which use one of the three replacement chassis

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wow guys, thank you for all your helpfull information.

 

I can see I have much to learn regarding what is available, what will work with what, and who now makes it..Things have changed so much since I last  modeled played trains there really is so much to consider when looking to purchase an item.

 

for various reasons I have been buying stock from vendors on the bay, nothing wrong with that I suppose, but as the collection builds up I do find myself with a number of issues to contend with, older models maybe diff scale to newer models, differing buffer bar hights, all manner of coupler configurations, the list is rather long..so along with the usuall need to service the stock before use there are all these aforementioned issues to contend with. 

 

back in the old days, cast metal and etched brass kits were out of my skill zone, or so i thought. Now I deffinately want to try them so will be trying out some finecast kits, just as soon as i find ones that I can purchase rtr chassis for. as much as I enjoy detailing bodys the thought of having to scratch build complete chassis/motor assembly as well might put me off...

 

 

btw, Does anyone know what year Hornby stopped marking their chassis "Made in Britain" and swopped it for "Made in China".

 

cheers all.

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If you are looking for a bodyline kit, other than s/h these are quite rare

 

Southeastern Finecast still do what they call bodyling kits and are in a different section to the revised ones

 

http://www.sefinecast.co.uk/Contents.htm

 

The SR Q, G6 & E1 and the LMS Calley tank or the GWR U1 and Collet goods either take the Jinty or R1 chassis.  The revised kits for the WWR 94xx & SR R & R1 locos come with etched replacement chassis for both the Jinty and R1 chassis, so in theory these RTR chassis would fit (either ask for a chassis less kit or resell the chassis) The other kits were designed mostly for RTR chassis but now have whitemetal ones with the exception of LMS Crab and GWR Star but these take older Triang chassis

 

If looking for other older kit locos you will have to read the listings, there were a few K's body line kits, quite a few older Wills kits used RTR chassis, BEC is another name that comes to mind

 

I can recommend the Southeastern Finecast kits, the earlier Wills (forerunner to Southern Finecast) kits are also very good and their older basic etched chassis are quite easy to build as they screw together.

 

Iain Rice's books on building locos ( one is for whitemetal another for etched locos) are well worth a read or even buying

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On 14/02/2020 at 17:27, hayfield said:

In an attempt to put you off I went up into the loft today

70.jpeg.d07ada05704859cb067532f9c513cefd.jpeg

 

One Airfix Prairie, motorised I guess in the 60's

 

71.jpeg.ab5cf2e466642c9c327cfcd9217887aa.jpeg72.jpeg.891feb0462b1f679c8f3f565d11a5e95.jpeg

 

Quite an engineering feat, a very old motor, but with a flywheel, Eames brass wheels home made cylinder rods and coupling + connecting rods and body fixing pillar. Works exceptionally well for a loco of its age and perhaps worth the trouble when built

 

 

This conversion was made using a specially designed chassis for the purpose and the body had few body upgrades. It was at a time when the number of RTR locos were few and kits were both expensive and difficult to build. This conversion kit was equally expensive at the time and many times the cost of the plastic loco kit and probably dearer than small RTR tank locos of that time.

 

We are now in a different era, endless choices of RTR locos and with the advent of eBay an untapped source of second hand locos, many at knock down prices

 

All I say why muck about with a plastic kit which dates back 50 + years, you would be better off buying a dead Airfix RTR Prairie and re-chassis it with a Comet chassis kit, you will end up with a much better model

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On 16/02/2020 at 13:43, melmerby said:

Is the wheelbase still the same as the HD R1 chassis?

If so it's wrong for both the R1 and the Taff Vale/GWR U1.

 

I used a Wills large prairie, and turned it end-for-end. The saddle for the cylinders sits underneath the cab.  It's 'not bad'  and the existing wheelbase is fairly close.  I would post a photo, but it's still in storage. There will be some cutting, filing and alteration to replicate the front of the U1. 

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12 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I made one just like it as a teenager.  Other offences against modelling were a 43xx made of another hacksawed Black Princess and a plastic kit CoT.  We all did things we regret as teenagers...

My first proper conversion was an Airfix Evening star on princess chassis for a Britannia, which was o.k., and then Airfix Schools bodies glued together on a B12 chassis to make an S15, followed by a cut down princess body/chassis and repositioned cylinders with shaped running boards to make a "Crab" with a 2P tender. neither was great but gave good experience. Part ex-ed them for 2 more non-running princesses and away we go......!

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7 hours ago, 33C said:

My first proper conversion was an Airfix Evening star on princess chassis for a Britannia, which was o.k., and then Airfix Schools bodies glued together on a B12 chassis to make an S15, followed by a cut down princess body/chassis and repositioned cylinders with shaped running boards to make a "Crab" with a 2P tender. neither was great but gave good experience. Part ex-ed them for 2 more non-running princesses and away we go......!

 

Moving into kitbashing is something a bit different, now a S15 kit + extras will cost you in the region of £200.  A couple of plastic kits, a S/H Triang chassis plus a lot of modelling effort to me sounds a very enjoyable way of obtaining an otherwise unobtainable model.

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18 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

 

I used a Wills large prairie, and turned it end-for-end. The saddle for the cylinders sits underneath the cab.  It's 'not bad'  and the existing wheelbase is fairly close.  I would post a photo, but it's still in storage. There will be some cutting, filing and alteration to replicate the front of the U1. 

I've just purchased the U1 frames from Alan Gibson, which are the correct wheelbase, so I am going to see whether I can make something reasonable for it.

 

I originally bought 2 Airfix Prairie kits when they were something like 7/6d (?) each (pre decimal)

I used one to make a Prairie with a homemade brass chassis, some scale wheels and a K's motor, it wasn't too bad apart from the aluminium tyred wheels which were rubbish (Stephen Poole I believe).

It was dismembered a while back.

 

The second kit remained sealed in it's box and I sold it a few years back at a considerable profit.

 

Another effort was a Triang 4-6-2 chassis under a Kitmaster spam-can body, even though the wheels were nothing like the BFBs.

It happily trundled around my layout with a Kitmaster Southern Region coach and a few Triang ones.

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