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Bachmann Class 20 DRS


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12 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

Are the steps that are missing from under the front corners of the cab provided in the extras bag?

 

Thanks,

 

Roy

 

There's 3 pre fitted and one in the parts bag.  Guess not all examples had all 4 fitted?  Cant think of why else its done this way.

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19 hours ago, Richard Croft said:

Thanks everyone that watched my first video discussing potential spaeker upgrades for the 20, unfortunately my model was faulty so the final installation was only finished today, hopefully it helps people who might also be fitting sound.

 

Richard

Firstly Richard thanks for your videos they are very helpful.

 

I have to say I am very disappointed that Bachmann have not created a newly tooled Class 20 with working Marker Lights, I am also underwhelmed by the lack of speaker space. 

 

This is a model that should be up there with the best of them in the sound department. I now fear it will be quite inept in the company of the forthcoming Deltics and 37s from Accurascale.

 

For me this could be a showstopper and I am considering cancelling my orders for 2 HNRC 20s.

 

Does anyone else think Bachmann have failed to step up with this model?

 

 

Edited by Dicky L
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2 hours ago, Dicky L said:

Does anyone else think Bachmann have failed to step up with this model?

 

No, I quite like it.  Visually, its a stunner and it's a massive leap forward from the older 20's.   Then again, I only dabble in sound, and I can take or leave the marker lights as none of my other loco's have them anyway, so it would only show them up.

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2 hours ago, Dicky L said:

Does anyone else think Bachmann have failed to step up with this model?

 

I think the detail looks excellent. I'd hesitate to criticise the speaker space too much as the Class 20 is probably one of the most challenging mainline diesels in this regard; being both narrow and short. Perhaps they could have looked at making space in the fuel tank I suppose.

 

I agree that the lack of marker lights is very dissapointing though; especially considering what Bachmann managed on their Class 158, which has the best WIPAC lighting setup I've seen on an RTR model. This feels like a step backwards by comparison.

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1 hour ago, Pillar said:

 

I think the detail looks excellent. I'd hesitate to criticise the speaker space too much as the Class 20 is probably one of the most challenging mainline diesels in this regard; being both narrow and short. Perhaps they could have looked at making space in the fuel tank I suppose.

 

I agree that the lack of marker lights is very dissapointing though; especially considering what Bachmann managed on their Class 158, which has the best WIPAC lighting setup I've seen on an RTR model. This feels like a step backwards by comparison.

I agree that the detail looks great. 

 

I just think the lighting issue and the lack of speaker space means that it will sound flimsy compared to others with EM2s in them. I really want a class 20 to be a beast of a loco alongside 37s etc. I suspect this model would need serious and expensive modifications to bring it even close to what we are anticipating with the Deltics and 37s RTR.

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22 minutes ago, Dicky L said:

I just think the lighting issue and the lack of speaker space means that it will sound flimsy compared to others with EM2s in them. I really want a class 20 to be a beast of a loco alongside 37s etc. I suspect this model would need serious and expensive modifications to bring it even close to what we are anticipating with the Deltics and 37s RTR.

 

Admittedly I am still awaiting my pair so I cannot comment first hand on the speaker quality. I was considering purchasing a speaker upgrade but after watching several videos on the factory speaker to try and get an idea of its quality I actually thought it sounded like one of the best factory fitted speakers out there. 

 

But shouldn't the 20 in comparison sound a bit feeble? The EM2 is great for that deep bass-y rumble on a 37 and (to me) 20s don't have that at all, it's much more high pitch and - I can't think of the right word here - airy/feeble. I agree that I am expecting even more from that company's 37s but I am hoping I won't be disappointed with the Bachmann speaker!

 

Al

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Agreed Richard, suspect most/a lot of people, me included, have ordered two with a view to renumbering one either themselves or by others. 
 

Yes possibly allows for a second run given the 20/3’s are somewhat limited in numbers but when that’ll be no one other than Bachmann will know. 
 

From the photos I’ve seen on here, FB & Instagram these look great and can’t wait for mine to arrive. 

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1 hour ago, Richard Croft said:

I wouldn't say they have failed at all to be honest, its a great model, plenty of detail and a decent circuit board so that you can easily turn off the lights at either end. Even if they wanted to it wouldn't have had space for an EM2 or EM1 because its too narrow. And I dont think they could have got marker lights into the nose end, maybe the cab end but then the lights at each end would be different wen they should be the same, so for me its a reasonable compromise in my opinion.

 

I'd say where they have failed is only making 1 running number of each livery for a loco that famously runs in pairs

 

Richard

I wouldn’t particularly expect to be able to fit an EM1/EM2 within the Class 20 body, I was simpIy trying to point out that the speaker limitations would make this model a poor relation to some others sound wise. I got the impression from your videos that there doesn’t appear to be room for anything much more than the double iphone speaker that you opted for. The Rail Exclusives twin boombox would be my speaker of choice for locos that don’t have room for the EMs. I am not particularly a fan of the double iphone speaker myself. 

 

I still think the lighting lets down this model badly just the same as it does on the Bachmann 57 and 66.

 

I also acknowledge that I am very picky and perhaps harder to please than most.

 

Once again thanks for the informative videos you produce. 

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Im sat here itching waiting for the HNRC ones to turn up so i can rip it apart and sort the markers lol.

 

it is a shame that with a new model we are still going to be stuck with twin iphone speakers so no sound upgrade over the previous 20s. 
 

i may see if i can 3d print some sort of speaker housing up, idk.

 

they look smart though

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8 hours ago, Dicky L said:

I wouldn’t particularly expect to be able to fit an EM1/EM2 within the Class 20 body, I was simpIy trying to point out that the speaker limitations would make this model a poor relation to some others sound wise. I got the impression from your videos that there doesn’t appear to be room for anything much more than the double iphone speaker that you opted for. The Rail Exclusives twin boombox would be my speaker of choice for locos that don’t have room for the EMs. I am not particularly a fan of the double iphone speaker myself. 

 

I still think the lighting lets down this model badly just the same as it does on the Bachmann 57 and 66.

 

I also acknowledge that I am very picky and perhaps harder to please than most.

 

Once again thanks for the informative videos you produce. 

Very probably due to complaints about long delays between the announcements of models and their appearance, Bachmann has introduced its new method of announcing late; too late to make revisions. Perhaps we should complain a bit less! Roy Langridge made the point that there would be space to have working marker lights at the cab end. Because 20/3s usually worked in pairs, nose to nose, or topping and tailing with noses inwards, that would have been an acceptable compromise. It would have been a happy outcome if he had had the chance to persuade Bachmann to adopt it.

 

These days, so much is emerging that I can’t say I would buy something; I can only say that I’d be scrambling to find the money. I was looking forward to the 20/3s but the lighting problem leads me to rule it out, sadly. I can’t see it making any sort of sense for another manufacturer to “have a go”, given that in other respects the model is so good. I hope that in future, Bachmann will take another look and produce a model with a full suite of lights, at least at the cab end. Until then, I shan’t be scrambling to find the money.

 

The 20/0s are a different matter. I have a pair of 20/0s, with sound, joined at the nose by the shortest Kadees practicable. They are great fun but they have no lights. For certain sure, I’ll be scrambling to find the money for a matching 20/0 to lead one of the older ones. Well done, Bachmann … eventually.

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5 hours ago, Richard Croft said:

theres actually a bit less space for a speaker because of the PCB being a lot bigger

 

Richard

 

The new PCB is huge and I don't see why Bachmann felt the necessity to make it that size. If I were to get a new Class 20/0 and it has a PCB that size (which I expect) it will not last very long before being ripped out.


Roy

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3 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

The new PCB is huge and I don't see why Bachmann felt the necessity to make it that size. If I were to get a new Class 20/0 and it has a PCB that size (which I expect) it will not last very long before being ripped out.


Roy

Swap it with the miniature Heljan 25 ;-)

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6 hours ago, Richard Croft said:

I think if you took the PCB out it would be hard to re wire the lights, it’s done in quite a clever way so when you press F0 all the lights come on, when you turn on aux 1 or 2 it actually turns off the lights at either end. I’m not sure how they do that. But it’s definitely nothing to do with the mapping on the decoder

 

It's likely to be done using PNP transistors. If one is wired in the current path for any given function, another function can be used to enable/disable it by turning the transistor on or off. It isn't a complex design and shouldn't take up much space at all - especially if it's done using surface mount components.

 

There's a good example of this here, used on a Hornby Class 60: http://s374444733.websitehome.co.uk/class-60sound/index.htm

 

I recently did some similar mods to my Hornby Class 60, and in the process had to consider whether or not to keep the existing factory fitted PCB. From my attempts to trace the circuit, I have to say I'm baffled as to why the PCBs on some RTR models are so complex.

 

The factory-fitted PCB on my example includes several transistors, an 8 pin IC chip, some chunky capacitors and six big diodes, among other things. I have no idea why all of this is necessary, as most DCC decoders need no additional components to do their job, other than a few little resistors to protect the LEDs. Loksound, for example, state this in their manuals. I'm aware that directional lighting on analogue requires diodes, but six of them seems excessive.

 

From memory, when I traced the original lighting circuit on my example of the Class 60, it was wired as common negative - rather than common positive which is standard on all DCC decoders. So presumably some, or all, of the PCB clutter has something to do with running the common negative lighting from the common positive decoder. But why not just keep it as common positive!

 

Apologies for the length of this post and straying slightly off topic, but is seems I'm not the only one who wonders why RTR models come with such big PCBs, and Bachmann is definately not the only culprit.

 

It seems like Heljan is the most restrained when it comes it PCBs. The ones I've seen appear to have no unnecessary components, and their size is only what is necessary to provide connections to the ends of the loco.

 

Edited by Pillar
Edited to give Heljan some credit
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9 minutes ago, Richard Croft said:

A lot of that is beyond me! I can see why thy did it that way because it means all the lights are on F0 as you would expect, regardless of which decoder you use. I think in a lot of cases the PCB's are over engineered to cater for DCC and DC use which I guess wont change for a long time.

 

Richard

 

I don't have any experience of how to wire lighting for DC, but I always thought it just needed a couple of small diodes to make the lighting directional. I wouldn't have thought much else would be required except resistors and the DCC socket.

 

To be fair, at least some of the PCB size may be to minimise the length of the wires to the lights. If the PCB runs the length of the loco, the wires can be shorter and less messy. It just becomes a bit awkward for fitting speakers.

 

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My 20/3 arrived today from rails (usual good service) and I have to say I am really impressed with it (although I am easily pleased) like the cab detail which seems to be an improvement on other Bachmann diesels I have and I do like the lighting although I am aware of the lack of marker lights it’s not a deal breaker for me. Looking forward to its partner turning up in due course.

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Got my long waited for 20 today from Rails. It arrived like this on opening the well packaged loco and tight in the Bachmann box. Dont think RM can take the blame for this. Loco out of stock with Rails now. 

 

On a separate facebook group i seem to be the only one seeing such a fault/failure right now?

 

image.png

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7 hours ago, sanspareil said:

Got my long waited for 20 today from Rails. It arrived like this on opening the well packaged loco and tight in the Bachmann box. Dont think RM can take the blame for this. Loco out of stock with Rails now. 

 

On a separate facebook group i seem to be the only one seeing such a fault/failure right now?

 

image.png

 

Boy that got me worried. Just been and checked mine which arrived from Rails on Friday. Think you must have just been unlucky as mine appears to be ok, although I'm not sure I want to tray and get the body off now just in case!

 

I've had to fix issues like this before flooding the joint with Mekpak, but clearly not something you would expect to do on a brand new model.

 

Cheers Trailrage

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Evening all,

  Does anyone happen to know if Bachmann has tooled up for the 20/3's without the high intensity headlight? 

 

The pairing I ideally wanted was 303 and 305 but neither are possible from the current model of 312.

 

Cheers,

  60800

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Interesting that in 2 of the major monthly modelling magazines, reviews of this loco make no mention of the lighting and its functions that work, ( or don't work in the case of the marker lights)functionality. This was one of the two major reasons for retooling by Bachamann ,the other being that the old tooling was, well, old.

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