Lyme Regis Branch

[Blobrick]

17 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

The Lyme Regis goods brake for many years was a LSWR Road van, not the type Kernow are planning, but the heavier one that went on to be built also for the ROD and, post WW1, became distributed among a number of pre-group railways in both England and Scotland.

 

The "New Vans" as per the recent Hornby model also featured and the final dedicated brake was a 15-ton "Pillbox" which is available as a kit from Cambrian. Photos of the first and last mentioned have appeared in various books and show the allocation painted on the bodywork. I'm not certain whether any "New Vans" carried this or if they were just visitors.

 

John

 

 

 

Great info John, I appreciate the heads up on the Hornby Brake van. I ve ordered some of the books recommended to me, but whilst l await their arrival, do you know if all freight traffic ran as mixed traffic, or was there freight only trains?

[Dunsignalling]

16 minutes ago, Blobrick said:

 

Great info John, I appreciate the heads up on the Hornby Brake van. I ve ordered some of the books recommended to me, but whilst l await their arrival, do you know if all freight traffic ran as mixed traffic, or was there freight only trains?

Although I lived in Axminster, I only saw goods being worked on the branch a few times. The WTT specified which passenger workings were permitted to run as mixed plus (IIRC) one goods path each way per weekday.

 

By the time I was old enough to be taking notice (the final two years of the Radials) the volume of goods had already begun to dwindle and, in practice, goods workings only seemed to happen once or twice a week. I think such traffic ceased altogether when the DMUs arrived.

 

Note, however, that being at school, I was only around on weekdays during the holidays so I could have missed quite a bit.

 

John

Edited February 9, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[Blobrick]

14 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Although I lived in Axminster, I only saw goods being worked on the branch a few times. The WTT specified which passenger workings were permitted to run as mixed plus (IIRC) one goods path each way per weekday.

 

By the time I was old enough to be taking notice (the final two years of the Radials) the volume of goods had already begun to dwindle and, in practice, goods workings only seemed to happen once or twice a week. I think such traffic ceased altogether when the DMUs arrived.

 

Note, however, that being at school, I was only around on weekdays during the holidays so I could have missed quite a bit.

 

John

Once again John,

I m indebted to you.  At least i now know that there was a daily goods train , with l suspect any additional short notice items running as mixed on permitted trains

 

Many thanks

 

Bob C

[Blobrick]

Whilst on the subject of traffic on the branch in the 1950s, does anyone know when Maunsell BCK coaches were first used to replace the LSWR sets? I know sets 42 to 46 were associated with the branch, set 42 was withdrawn in Nov 1957, sets 43 & 44 May 1958, and set 46 survived in service until March 1959. However these withdrawal dates  do not reflect their last use on the Lyme Regis Branch as the sets were used on other local branches as well. Does anyone have any ideas?

 

Bob C

Edited February 10, 2020 by Blobrick
Corrected Coach type

[Wickham Green]

22 hours ago, petrox said:

Another book which might be useful is South West Railwayman by Donald King (published by Allen & Unwin)  - King was a class 4 signalman at Lyme from 1957.  The book contains photos of Radial tanks, Ivatt 2MT tanks, 14xx on trial, and class 122 single railcar.  Also shown from early 1900's are Terrier and O2 tanks.

 

I'm pretty sure the South Western's two Terriers were bought specifically for this branch - but found to be under powered .... so the Southern tried the 'next size up' - a Brighton 'D1' but this was overweight and had to have the coal & water capacity severely restricted ( I don't think it was any more successful than the later 0-4-2Ts ).

[D9020 Nimbus]

The Southern seemed to have a penchant for keeping odd groups of locos for certain branches. Given the positive effect of the realignment, I can't help wondering if doing it earlier — when labour was cheaper and readily available — wouldn't have worked out cheaper in the long run? The GWR never seemed to do anything equivalent, nor most of the other railway companies…

[Wickham Green]

The Great Western were still building - what might be considered - antiquated 0-4-2Ts for their branches long after the other Companies. Swindon's accountants obviously thought it more cost-efficient to scrap and start again while the larger Companies preferred to close any branches that couldn't be operated with time-served motive power.

[Dunsignalling]

44 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

The Southern seemed to have a penchant for keeping odd groups of locos for certain branches. Given the positive effect of the realignment, I can't help wondering if doing it earlier — when labour was cheaper and readily available — wouldn't have worked out cheaper in the long run? The GWR never seemed to do anything equivalent, nor most of the other railway companies…

Until the 1950s, the WR had all sorts of small absorbed locos they reserved for use in out of the way places, plus surviving antique lightweight panniers. All effectively replaced by the 16xx class, which was just a cosmetically modernised version of the latter.  

 

The Lyme branch had to be done when it was simply because the Radials were on their last legs, as were the few remaining O2s. That had been the only other class used with any degree of success, albeit with restrictions and a tendency to high wear rates so new thinking was required.

 

The O2s used in earlier times had overflows installed in the tanks so they could only hold 800 gallons, thereby keeping the loco within the weight limit. Logic suggests that something similar should probably have been done to the Ivatts, (8 tons heavier than a Radial and 15 tons heavier than an O2) but either the crews were trusted not to fill them right up or a blind eye was turned. The Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0 (or the BR equivalent) would have been well inside the limit, compared to the decidedly borderline 2-6-2T, but the Southern Region didn't have any of those.

 

John

Edited February 10, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[D9020 Nimbus]

Sometimes the larger companies did keep lines open. The Lauder branch—J69 + tender in later years—being a case in point. NER branches tended to be heavily built; Richmond was RA9 (the maximum) so the issue didn't generally arise.

[paullad1984]

Good reading material. I've just bought the Hornby Lyme regis set and another radial for my railway, its not a model of the line itself being generic branchline but it they look good on it even in its unfinished state. 

[melmoth]

One book I didn't see mentioned in the above (apologies if I missed it) is Derek Phillips's "From Salisbury to Exeter: The Branch Lines" (isbn: 0860935469). I don't have my copy to hand, but it has a good shot of the LSWR Road Van, and, IIRC, an account of 1462's bad day out in 1958.

[Blobrick]

21 minutes ago, melmoth said:

One book I didn't see mentioned in the above (apologies if I missed it) is Derek Phillips's "From Salisbury to Exeter: The Branch Lines" (isbn: 0860935469). I don't have my copy to hand, but it has a good shot of the LSWR Road Van, and, IIRC, an account of 1462's bad day out in 1958.

 

 

Hi Melmoth

 

Well you ve confirmed my suspicions that Road vans were seen on the branch, thank you for that

 

Cheers Bob C

[Blobrick]

1 hour ago, paullad1984 said:

Good reading material. I've just bought the Hornby Lyme regis set and another radial for my railway, its not a model of the line itself being generic branchline but it they look good on it even in its unfinished state. 

 

 

Hi Paul, thanks for the heads up on the books, I have already obtained a copy "Lyme Regis Branch" so the Axminster to Lyme Regis railway is a new one to me, So l ll keep my eye out for a copy

 

Many thanks

 

Bob C

 

[paullad1984]

2 minutes ago, Blobrick said:

 

 

Hi Paul, thanks for the heads up on the books, I have already obtained a copy "Lyme Regis Branch" so the Axminster to Lyme Regis railway is a new one to me, So l ll keep my eye out for a copy

 

Many thanks

 

Bob C

 

It's an interesting book if a little dry. Very few photographs. 

[Blobrick]

9 minutes ago, paullad1984 said:

It's an interesting book if a little dry. Very few photographs. 

 

 

Yes l have to agree with you there Paul, it was bought blind and was not all l had hoped for lol

[paullad1984]

I meant the Axminster to Lyme Regis book, from Devon to Dorset the story of the Lyme regis branch I find an excellent book, lots of photos. 

[Dunsignalling]

The Railway Bylines special is excellent, the other one less so. Much of it is lifted from earlier publications; notably a self-published volume dating from 1952 by Lewis Cozens (an example of which I am fortunate enough to own). 

 

It's good a while since I read my copy of "The Axminster to Lyme Regis Railway" but I recall noticing some content, and a few errors, that had previously appeared elsewhere. To be fair, the sources are credited in the bibliography, though not referenced within the text.

 

Note that the Road Van allocated to the branch (at least in BR days) was S54977* one of the 20-ton Diagram 1545 type, not the ten-tonner promised from Kernow Models. It was withdrawn in 1958* and the branch brake thereafter was one of the 15-ton lightweight SR Pillboxes. For the 4mm modeller, the Road van is available in resin kit form from  Smallbrook Studios and the latter is part of the Cambrian Kits range. 

 

* Reference: Southern Wagons Volume One, Page 61, Plate 100 and caption thereto.

 

John

Edited June 13, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[Rivercider]

From the SR March 1934 Western Appendices to the WTT

 

LYME REGIS BRANCH

The load of a passenger or mixed train worked by one engine must not exceed 40 wheels or 120 tons in weight.

When an assisting engine is provided the load of passenger trains may be increased to 72 wheels, the weight must not exceed 220 tons.

The load of down goods trains may be made up to 48 wheels including not more than 6 wagons of minerals. The load of an up goods train may be 60 wheels when it consists principally of empty wagons.

 

cheers    

[Dunsignalling]

11 hours ago, Rivercider said:

From the SR March 1934 Western Appendices to the WTT

 

LYME REGIS BRANCH

The load of a passenger or mixed train worked by one engine must not exceed 40 wheels or 120 tons in weight.

When an assisting engine is provided the load of passenger trains may be increased to 72 wheels, the weight must not exceed 220 tons.

The load of down goods trains may be made up to 48 wheels including not more than 6 wagons of minerals. The load of an up goods train may be 60 wheels when it consists principally of empty wagons.

 

cheers    

Thanks, I once had sight of a LSWR Appendix (dated 1921, IIRC) from which I copied the same text. It was therefore probably in force for most of the line's existence. Of course, as coaches grew heavier, the weight allowance would have been taken up long before the maximum permitted number of wheels was reached. 

 

I think the single-heading passenger weight limit was increased  for the Ivatt tanks when they arrived.  By then, though, goods traffic had so dwindled that it's unlikely that any such working  would have challenged the regulation. I don't recall seeing double-heading with Ivatts, though at least one rail-tour used a pair topped and tailed.  

 

The longest passenger train I remember seeing, double headed by two Radials, was seven coaches; the branch 2-set plus a Bulleid 5-set forming the through Waterloo provision. I am told there is a published photo showing a similar formation plus an extra strengthening vehicle, but I've not seen it personally.

 

The limit for a single Radial in BR days seems to have been 3 coaches. Whether that was official or the local staff acknowledging practical reality, I know not.

 

John

Edited June 14, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[paullad1984]

12 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

The Railway Bylines special is excellent, the other one less so. Much of it is lifted from earlier publications; notably a self-published volume dating from 1952 by Lewis Cozens (an example of which I am fortunate enough to own). 

 

It's good a while since I read my copy of "The Axminster to Lyme Regis Railway" but I recall noticing some content, and a few errors, that had previously appeared elsewhere. To be fair, the sources are credited in the bibliography, though not referenced within the text.

 

Note that the Road Van allocated to the branch (at least in BR days) was S54977* one of the 20-ton Diagram 1545 type, not the ten-tonner promised from Kernow Models. It was withdrawn in 1958* and the branch brake thereafter was one of the 15-ton lightweight SR Pillboxes. For the 4mm modeller, the Road van is available in resin kit form from  Smallbrook Studios and the latter is part of the Cambrian Kits range. 

 

* Reference: Southern Wagons Volume One, Page 61, Plate 100 and caption thereto.

 

John

As I'm not modelling the Lyme regis branch per se, I'm making do with a br grey version of Hornbys lswr brake van. If I had the room though I think I'd model the line but when you only have 6ftx4ft to work with a continuous run with a terminus station based in the middle is plenty to be getting on with! 

[Dunsignalling]

On ‎10‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 13:32, Blobrick said:

Whilst on the subject of traffic on the branch in the 1950s, does anyone know when Maunsell BCK coaches were first used to replace the LSWR sets? I know sets 42 to 46 were associated with the branch, set 42 was withdrawn in Nov 1957, sets 43 & 44 May 1958, and set 46 survived in service until March 1959. However these withdrawal dates  do not reflect their last use on the Lyme Regis Branch as the sets were used on other local branches as well. Does anyone have any ideas?

 

Bob C

P104 of David Gould's book on Maunsell stock offers the answer. Eleven 2-sets, numbered 100 to 110, were formed in 1958 (exact months not stated) of a Maunsell BCK plus an ex-SECR non-corridor "Long Ten" for use in the Western District, specifically including the East Devon branches. Withdrawal date of Sets 43/44 suggests their replacements had arrived no later than May.  

 

The SECR vehicle on the Lyme Regis branch was held in reserve at the terminus and only used if needed to cope with an influx of trade. These coaches were replaced with Maunsell Open seconds in 1959 (the resulting combination being referred to as a "2-set W") though I think a few of those removed survived for a while in odd locations for strengthening purposes.

 

Once the Ivatt tanks arrived, there seems to have been more variety in coaching stock on the branch. At least one published photo shows a conventional Maunsell "2-set R" (BCK+BSK) in use and a BR non-corridor second appeared from time to time.  

 

John

Edited June 14, 2020 by Dunsignalling
Missed phrase completed

[Nearholmer]

This is essential for a good understanding of the infrastructure, and contains very good drawings.

 

Whether it gets into the gnat’s doodas of detail about later motive power, I can’t remember - my copy is buried at the back of a cupboard.

 

 

 

 

[eastglosmog]

11 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

This is essential for a good understanding of the infrastructure, and contains very good drawings.

 

Whether it gets into the gnat’s doodas of detail about later motive power, I can’t remember - my copy is buried at the back of a cupboard.

 

 

 

 

 

You've just reminded me I have a copy of that book.  It being in a more accessible position than yours, I have had a quick look in it and it does give  brief details of the 2-6-2's used.  Also has a picture of an SR road van on the branch.

[Nearholmer]

The road van was illustrated in Railway Modeller c1952, and there is a discussion somewhere on RMWeb about its livery at various dates.

 

Disused Stations has an exceedingly good page devoted to Lyme, with lots and lots of photos.

[MidlandRed]

Does anyone know which class 122 (s) were used on Lyme Regis in its final days? I'm aware they were used on Seaton and Sidmouth as well as Bude - presumably these cars were all provided from Laira's allocation (so any from 55000/1/11/13-7) and at least one class 121 has been in photos at Halwill Junction. 

 

I suspect some of these units may have become available from other WR south west branch closures.