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Lyme Regis Branch


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Mike Morant has just posted a picture of 30582 shunting wagons at Lyme Regis

 

Former LSWR, Adams 0415 class 4-4-2 radial tank no. 30582 shunting at Lyme Regis on 27/7/60. I have many negatives in my collection featuring these three radial tanks but this is the first one I've come acreoss where one is on goods duties. [Mike Morant collection]

 

Note to posterity: the link will become invalid before long as the picture's present location is Mike's temporary repository for newly uploaded pictures.

 

Edited by Andy Kirkham
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On 16/06/2020 at 21:01, MidlandRed said:

Does anyone know which class 122 (s) were used on Lyme Regis in its final days? I'm aware they were used on Seaton and Sidmouth as well as Bude - presumably these cars were all provided from Laira's allocation (so any from 55000/1/11/13-7) and at least one class 121 has been in photos at Halwill Junction. 

 

I suspect some of these units may have become available from other WR south west branch closures. 

 

Might they have been from wherever provided units for the Bridport branch? Bath Road?

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18 hours ago, melmoth said:

 

Might they have been from wherever provided units for the Bridport branch? Bath Road?

 

The Yeovil cars (and previously railbuses) along with the Bridport car seem to have been BR based (but kept at Westbury) - of class 122 those seem to have been 55013, 14 and 16 at times - but Bridport (and Severn Beach) were mostly class 121.  

 

Of these, 13 moved to and fro Tyseley in the mid 60s but both 13, 14 (along with 0, 11 and 15) all moved to Scotland by the late 60s (presumably after line closures). 

 

I suspect these more westerly branch cars were provided by Laira but out based perhaps at Exeter (maybe even Exmouth Junction) initially. 

 

Details of the dieselisation of the ex Southern Devon and Cornish lines seems quite sparse - gleaning info from photos and spotting records. Line closure dates are also a good pointer (eg withered arm and Barnstaple/ Taunton) etc at the start of winter 1966. 

 

That picture of Radial Tank 30582 above is fabulous - clean condition as well. 

Edited by MidlandRed
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17 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

 

The Yeovil cars (and previously railbuses) along with the Bridport car seem to have been BR based (but kept at Westbury) - of class 122 those seem to have been 55013, 14 and 16 at times - but Bridport (and Severn Beach) were mostly class 121.  

 

Of these, 13 moved to and fro Tyseley in the mid 60s but both 13, 14 (along with 0, 11 and 15) all moved to Scotland by the late 60s (presumably after line closures). 

 

I suspect these more westerly branch cars were provided by Laira but out based perhaps at Exeter (maybe even Exmouth Junction) initially. 

 

Details of the dieselisation of the ex Southern Devon and Cornish lines seems quite sparse - gleaning info from photos and spotting records. Line closure dates are also a good pointer (eg withered arm and Barnstaple/ Taunton) etc at the start of winter 1966. 

 

That picture of Radial Tank 30582 above is fabulous - clean condition as well. 

It would have been quite freshly painted.

 

30582 did not receive the later BR emblem until July 1960 and only lasted a further 12 months in traffic, so you'd be hard pressed to find a picture of her looking grubby in that form.

 

Incidentally, whilst not 100% certain, I think one Class 121 bubble, probably W55026 (borrowed from where, I wonder), did run on the branch, but not for long, maybe only a day or two. IIRC, units came up from Exeter daily rather than being stabled overnight on the East Devon branches, with a weekly changeover (as had been the custom with steam hauled stock). I presume this to have been due to Exmouth Junction being the only location with diesel fuelling facilities.

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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  • 2 years later...

A question just cropped up on a Souther Railway staff group on FB. Did the Adams Radial Tanks get push-pull fitted for the Lyme Regis branch? The old "gate" stock must surely have been p/p fitted as it has drivers windows in the end. But from what I can glean form this thread, it seems unlikely as the O2s were withdrawn later locos weren't p/p fitted. Were M7s ever used on the branch?

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I've seen no photographic evidence of Adams Radials operating in P/P mode on the branch. And no M7s were ever used, due presumably to axle loading restrictions. The smaller O2s that served had to run with reduced water and coal capacity. 

Edited by dpgibbons
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12 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

A question just cropped up on a Souther Railway staff group on FB. Did the Adams Radial Tanks get push-pull fitted for the Lyme Regis branch? The old "gate" stock must surely have been p/p fitted as it has drivers windows in the end. But from what I can glean form this thread, it seems unlikely as the O2s were withdrawn later locos weren't p/p fitted. Were M7s ever used on the branch?

I don't know what went on elsewhere when the Radials remained numerous in general traffic (pre-1930), but AIUI, P/P working was never permitted on the Lyme Regis branch. 

 

Not all Gate stock was P/P fitted (though some of what wasn't, once had been, if you get my drift) but the Lyme Branch received 1935-rebuilt hauled 2-sets (as produced by Hornby) upon conversion and kept them until replaced with cascaded Maunsell corridors in the late-1950s.

 

By BR days most remaining Gate stock (fitted or not) seems to have been concentrated in the Plymouth area, but few examples remained beyond 1956.

 

Not long before its withdrawal, the last-surviving P/P Gate Set (373), did run (hauled in both directions) over the branch in conjunction with a main line rail-tour. I think it may have covered the branch duty until the following weekend, but I am by no means certain of that. 

 

One personal mystery, which I have never managed to solve, arose from an anecdote of my late uncle who lived in Axminster but "commuted" to the Woodroffe School in Lyme Regis. He reckoned he'd seen a saddle tank being used during engineering work on the branch. Apart from the surviving 0330s (too long for the curves, I'd think) and a couple of 0-4-0STs in Southampton Docks, I can't think what it could have been. He wasn't an avid enthusiast, but certainly knew what a saddle tank was. His observation dated from WW2 (he left school in 1944) so I've always wondered if an unpublicised trial involving a WD Austerity Hunslet might explain it. 

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Very odd ! ............ unlikely to have been a Southampton Docks loco as they would have been a long way from home ( I think three lasted to WW2 "Clausentum", "Ironside" and the mysterious "The Master General" ) ... it's also unlikely the WD could have spared any Austerity locos prior top D Day. 

Though Austerity 0-6-0ST production commenced in 1942 and there'd have been most of 1943 to play with before the heaviest stages of the build-up got underway. Most of the ones that went overseas did so after D-Day in any case.

 

The thought occurs that, given the difficulties the line presented in peacetime, the powers-that-be might want to know what of their equipment could safely be sent over it should the necessity arise. We still had MoD people verifying the length and continuing existence of our siding at Honiton in the 1990s!

 

Whatever the loco was, it had gone a couple of nights later. As a new design, contingent route-proving is likely to have been carried out anywhere with unusual restrictions, and Lyme Regis would certainly qualify! 

 

If it had happened, it might largely escape notice beyond rail staff and those with an interest who happened to stumble upon it at either end or during one or two runs each way. In all cases, chatting about unusual rail and/or military activity was frowned upon!

 

After the war, unless one had recognised their significance at the time, memories of such isolated occurrences might easily be lost within a whole gamut of far more personally relevant happenings.

 

I am not claiming that this is what occurred, but my late uncle knew a "saddle tank" when he saw one, and I accept the veracity of him having seen one on the branch on at least one night during WW2.

 

In short, I can't think of a less unlikely explanation for it.

 

First, find your saddle tank, as Mrs. Beaton almost certainly didn't say. 🙂  

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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5 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

I don't know what went on elsewhere when the Radials remained numerous in general traffic (pre-1930), but AIUI, P/P working was never permitted on the Lyme Regis branch. 

 

Not all Gate stock was P/P fitted (though some of what wasn't, once had been, if you get my drift) but the Lyme Branch received 1935-rebuilt hauled 2-sets (as produced by Hornby) upon conversion and kept them until replaced with cascaded Maunsell corridors in the late-1950s.

 

By BR days most remaining Gate stock (fitted or not) seems to have been concentrated in the Plymouth area, but few examples remained beyond 1956.

 

Not long before its withdrawal, the last-surviving P/P Gate Set (373), did run (hauled in both directions) over the branch in conjunction with a main line rail-tour. I think it may have covered the branch duty until the following weekend, but I am by no means certain of that. 

 

One personal mystery, which I have never managed to solve, arose from an anecdote of my late uncle who lived in Axminster but "commuted" to the Woodroffe School in Lyme Regis. He reckoned he'd seen a saddle tank being used during engineering work on the branch. Apart from the surviving 0330s (too long for the curves, I'd think) and a couple of 0-4-0STs in Southampton Docks, I can't think what it could have been. He wasn't an avid enthusiast, but certainly knew what a saddle tank was. His observation dated from WW2 (he left school in 1944) so I've always wondered if an unpublicised trial involving a WD Austerity Hunslet might explain it. 

 

John

The Gate stock was at Seaton Junction very Briefly. 1959/60/61? Somewhere I have Picture of it in the Down Sidings IIRC. It certainly was at Exeter Central, with a Well Tank, for the Centenary(?) Parade. Deffo got Pics of that.

I saw the Plymouth Friary Set at Devonport KIng's Road circa October/November 1958 or early 1959.

Ref the Saddle Tank. As the Branch was very light Rail and it was Wartime, maybe it was a Contractor's Loco? Southampton Docks STs? No idea. Only other thing it may have been could have been one of the Well Tanks that looked a little odd. 

Your theory for the Austerity 'Test' is probably correct as it was pre, shhhhhhh, D Day.

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2 hours ago, Morello Cherry said:

A quick search for Lyme Regis and D-Day suggests that there was a heavy US presence in the area with the 16th Infantry Division based there. That would maybe suggest WD traffic of some kind potentially?

The line wasn't suitable for heavy military traffic, but there must have been some railway involvement in all the activity of those momentous times.

 

At the time, the branch was run by the SR using just two, already elderly, Radial tanks. Both were required for any load much in excess of the normal service, and a third survivor was yet to come back into their ownership. Back-up, if necessary, came from O2 Class 0-4-4Ts that weren't much newer and were subject to operational restrictions. The line's limitations were the only reason the Radials hadn't been scrapped in the 1920s along with most of their classmates. 

 

The Austerity 0-6-0ST, whilst not suitable for regular use, notably in having an axle-loading around four tons greater than permitted, had a short wheelbase and more-than-sufficient power to make one a practical backstop in extremis. Whilst it seems unlikely that knowledge of a gauging test wouldn't be recalled by local rail staff involved, if conducted after the last train of the day by military personnel, that might barely amount to a handful of individuals. Any paperwork could easily have disappeared in a later "clear-out". The line attracted much enthusiast attention later but "there was a war on", and lots of things happened that almost nobody knew about. For me, it's personally fascinating to wonder if my uncle might have been the only person to pass on a memory containing a detail that just might point to an event in the life of our little local railway that others had forgotten, remained silent on, or never been aware of in the first place. 

 

Any "Plan B" most probably involved closing a line of limited military significance, and using a few more Army trucks instead, but somebody must have been asking "what if"?

 

John

 

 

Edited by Dunsignalling
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6 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

As it was wartime could it have been something borrowed from the GWR?

 

The 1361s were very lightweight and shedded in the South West at the time.

 

 

 

Jason

Another of my thoughts. Wasn't 1362 a long-term resident of Taunton that could have been got to Axminster via the Chard branch in a couple of hours, and maybe back the following night.

 

However, if one was looking to assess a GWR engine for the purpose, wouldn't one of the far more "available" 14xx Class, as (unsuccessfully) trialled in the public eye much later, be the obvious first choice?

 

Any trial of whatever my uncle saw that night clearly came to naught, either through unsuitability or the necessity simply not arising, but it's an intriguing case of both "what" and "what if".

 

John 

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3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Very secret things going on in Lyme Bay early in 1944 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Tiger

True but, in maritime terms, Lyme Bay extends all the way from Portland Bill to Start Point, and Slapton Sands is very much at its western end.

 

From what I can make out, the Lyme Branch lost most of its holiday traffic for the duration and saw out WW2 in obscurity.

 

It was very much a Light Railway and, even if military supplies could have been carried in quantity, you'd still have to get them down that hill. It was far more sensible to truck them from the nearest mainline rail head.    

 

Any loss or reduction in the service, had one or both Radials given up the ghost, would have had little effect on the war effort. Indeed, post-war, the Southern National No.32 was how rational locals accessed Lyme. I was one of the relative few who considered the lengthy descent to, and climb back from, the cinema or beach worthwhile for the pleasure of the train journey, and then only on a dry (but not too hot) day! 

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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Considering all the various older locos that the WD had at Longmoor etc were any of those used on the big railway during the war?

 

But just to give you an example of how things only recently are being rediscovered there was an article about a year ago in the Pines Express about the fairly large fuel depot at Highbridge which was built for D Day but which had gone unrecorded. If people can fail to remember a huge fuel depot, a saddle tank on some kind of wartime traffic is pretty unlikely to be recorded.

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On 02/10/2022 at 17:35, Dunsignalling said:

 

 

The thought occurs that, given the difficulties the line presented in peacetime, the powers-that-be might want to know what of their equipment could safely be sent over it should the necessity arise. We still had MoD people verifying the length and continuing existence of our siding at Honiton in the 1990s!

 

John

I have a pretty shrewd idea who those 'MoD people' were and why they were interested in that siding.  And you might have been a little surprised if you knew exactly which units (or country in some cases) they came from.  Hilariously in earlier  years a group of them failed to sufficiently impress members of the MoD police at a certain site much further east on the Salisbury - Exeter (to the extent of even being accused of forging their ID cards).  They were duly detained until a fully uniformed Warrant Officer, complete with all the supporting paperwork, drove down there from the unit they were temporarily attached to and identified them and explained what they were engaged in.

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23 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I have a pretty shrewd idea who those 'MoD people' were and why they were interested in that siding.  And you might have been a little surprised if you knew exactly which units (or country in some cases) they came from.  Hilariously in earlier  years a group of them failed to sufficiently impress members of the MoD police at a certain site much further east on the Salisbury - Exeter (to the extent of even being accused of forging their ID cards).  They were duly detained until a fully uniformed Warrant Officer, complete with all the supporting paperwork, drove down there from the unit they were temporarily attached to and identified them and explained what they were engaged in.

Verry Interesting. I hope my name didn't go in ze book!

 

The odd thing was that, nowhere in the box documentation or the sectional appendix, was the length of the Honiton siding mentioned. My best offer was that it would hold a Class 37 + 18 Dogfish (just) and maybe they could work it out from that. In the end, they actually got out a tape and measured the thing!

 

P. Way told me that was because it was "theirs" and all or part of it could be booked out of use without notice if necessary. "Those traffic people" had to liaise with the local pw management if they wanted to use it, to ensure that enough of it was available!

 

We bunged quite a variety of things in there over the years. Notably a Mk2 BFK right down at the stop-block, that had been dragged all the way from Exeter with the handbrake on and had wheel-flats that defied adequate description. The odd dead 159, including one that came off on a mud-slide at the East end of the tunnel and the Road-Rail Land Rover that greatly facilitated its rapid recovery from an inaccessible location. Assorted Class 66s running light to Eastleigh, and one that turned up with a bunch of very tatty brake-force wagons to remove the aforementioned coach which, after about two years in there, had become quite an "art gallery". The local graffitists had apparently even been using it for brew-ups and lie downs! 

 

Off duty, I came across BR 5MT 73096 and its support coach in there one day, which a colleague considered incapable of getting to Chard without delaying service trains (It could have, easily, but it made for a couple of unusual photos).

 

All irrelevant now. There was apparently an either-or decision in the re-control budgeting as to retaining it or gaining a turn-back signal on the up loop that sees even less use than the siding used to!

 

John

 

EDIT: Sorry, O/T but at least it's fairly local!

Edited by Dunsignalling
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