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Motts Lane - a foray into EM


Southwich
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Hi Will,

 

Having been a user of Kadees previously, I'm currently in the process of switching over to S&W couplings. I used to use three links on the club stock and they can be fiddly, plus when watching a layout I'm not keen on seeing a big hand so hands free shunting was a must for me.

 

I'd say go for Sprat & Winkle.

 

Cheers,

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Hi Will,

 

I would recommend Dinghams http://dingham.co.uk/. They have all the advantages of Kadees and are found where couplers are supposed to be found, on the buffer beam. They are unobtrusive when blackened and do not get in the way of any of the usual dangly bits that share space on the buffer beams of locomotives. I’ve been using them both at home and at exhibitions for years and find them very dependable. They take a little skill to assemble but judging by your track skill is not an issue. Usual disclaimer applies, just a happy punter.

 

Cheers,

 

David

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10 hours ago, Southwich said:


Thanks for the kind words Mike much appreciated! It certainly has gone to a good home in 710! Worth the speaker upgrade to the iPhone as well.

 

Unfortunately I haven’t made any progress this week due to work commitments, however I have been thinking about couplings. I want to be able to have detailing on all of the wagons and locos I have, but also have some form of auto uncoupler system to aid operation. Now my thinking is this will be best suited by the sprat and winkle method with electromagnets underneath the layout, mainly at the end of the station and the two reception sidings.

 

Has anyone had any experience with the method or can recommend an alternative? I think KDs are too expensive and obtrusive, whereas three links on their own won’t allow for the auto uncoupling. An interesting dilemma and would really appreciate any suggestions people may have!

 

Will 

 

 

 

Definitely worth the speaker upgrade - it sounds incredibly impressive. 

 

Couplings are a tricky conundrum to figure out. I thought long and hard about it myself, and eventually settled on Kadees because I wanted hands free uncoupling, but didn’t trust my skills putting together anything finer. They are quite pricy, but I have saved money by using Bachmann “pipe” couplings within fixed rakes of carriages. That probably won’t  help with your set up though. Dinghams do look like an interesting option, as David suggests, and I might experiment with them one day too. 

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Sprat and Winkles are good once set up. I use 3mm mk 1 couplings with a simple modification for auto uncoupling, something I picked up at Expo EM in 2019, not my idea but also more unobtrusive.

 

Martyn

Edited by mullie
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16 hours ago, davknigh said:

Hi Will,

 

I would recommend Dinghams http://dingham.co.uk/. They have all the advantages of Kadees and are found where couplers are supposed to be found, on the buffer beam. They are unobtrusive when blackened and do not get in the way of any of the usual dangly bits that share space on the buffer beams of locomotives. I’ve been using them both at home and at exhibitions for years and find them very dependable. They take a little skill to assemble but judging by your track skill is not an issue. Usual disclaimer applies, just a happy punter.

 

Cheers,

 

David


Hi David,

 

Thanks very much for the kind words and the suggestion - I think that may very well be a winner! I like the idea of it being in the “right place” and whilst they do look fiddly I think they look subtle as you say once blackened. 

In terms of an electro magnet - do you have any specific brand you would recommend or just any generic ones strong enough should work?

 

Will get a pack ordered over the weekend me thinks and we’ll see how we get on! 
 

18 minutes ago, mullie said:

Sprat and Winkles are good once set up. I use 3mm mk 1 couplings with a simple modification for auto uncoupling, something I picked up at Expo EM in 2019, not my idea but also more unobtrusive.

 

Martyn

 

Thanks for the comment Martyn, have you got any photos of the modification for the auto uncoupling please? Tempted to get a pack from Wizard when I do my next order to try two couplings before I make my decision. 
 

8 hours ago, Modelling Mike said:

 

Definitely worth the speaker upgrade - it sounds incredibly impressive. 

 

Couplings are a tricky conundrum to figure out. I thought long and hard about it myself, and eventually settled on Kadees because I wanted hands free uncoupling, but didn’t trust my skills putting together anything finer. They are quite pricy, but I have saved money by using Bachmann “pipe” couplings within fixed rakes of carriages. That probably won’t  help with your set up though. Dinghams do look like an interesting option, as David suggests, and I might experiment with them one day too. 

 

Thanks Mike. I reckon as you say for coaches the pipe option is a good one and won’t work for wagons. My idea is to have wagons rakes, so the inner wagons will have screw links as there will be no need to uncouple, and the outer two wagons will be fitted with another coupling type. I think as you say the Dinghams look very good, but will probably try both types before settling! 
 

18 hours ago, Wayne 37901 said:

Hi Will,

 

Having been a user of Kadees previously, I'm currently in the process of switching over to S&W couplings. I used to use three links on the club stock and they can be fiddly, plus when watching a layout I'm not keen on seeing a big hand so hands free shunting was a must for me.

 

I'd say go for Sprat & Winkle.

 

Cheers,


Thanks for the recommendation Wayne - have you got any photos of your stock with them on? Would be interested in the benefits over Kadees you find as I was thinking of using Kadess on my coaches.

 

Thanks again to all for their feedback and words of advice - much appreciated. 

 

Will

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6 hours ago, Southwich said:

In terms of an electromagnet....

Hi Will,

 

I used half of an old solenoid point motor to generate the magnetic field and a piece of scrap steel for the core which is OK if you have old point motors lying around :rolleyes:. I was able to make two magnets that way but for day to day use I’ve settled on button magnets in the trackbed. With luck things don’t uncouple when you are propelling and the magnets do their work when some slack is introduced. I do intend to make up some more electromagnets eventually, just not at the top of my “to do” list. Dinghams do sell their own electromagnets and with the ability to delay the setting out you need surprisingly few of them. Placing one at the throat of the yard may be all you actually need. Manual uncoupling of Dinghams is very easy and just involves flipping the loop up.

 

HTH

 

David

Edited by davknigh
Correcting lousy grammar
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Hope these shots show the modification, I think this has been around for years. I learnt about it from the owner of a very nice Taff Vale BLT at Expo EM in 2018. He spent a lot of time explaining things to me. As I said earlier I use the mk 1 3mm couplings and I cheat by using staples, the fact that I still need to fully blacken the couplings might make things easier to see.

 

IMG_20200314_134335790.jpg.e55035b37ca7deada1c74db3e837fdc8.jpg

 

On my current layout I use hinged Kadee under track magnets, they also work with S&W couplings. They are moved by string! The reason for doing this is I have some Kadee fitted diesels for a 1960s scenario.

 

479574215_HingedKadeemagnet.jpg.322cea8e6d514078a3269b8b3c1e5015.jpg

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Martyn

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The Kadee magnets are more powerful than the S&W ones, so I tend not to pull the hinged magnet all the way up, I don't find I need to. I have a fixed Kadee magnet on a shunting cassette it gives the S&Ws a real pull so would suggest trying it first..

 

Martyn

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On 14/03/2020 at 14:31, davknigh said:

Hi Will,

 

I used half of an old solenoid point motor to generate the magnetic field and a piece of scrap steel for the core which is OK if you have old point motors lying around :rolleyes:. I was able to make two magnets that way but for day to day use I’ve settled on button magnets in the trackbed. With luck things don’t uncouple when you are propelling and the magnets do their work when some slack is introduced. I do intend to make up some more electromagnets eventually, just not at the top of my “to do” list. Dinghams do sell their own electromagnets and with the ability to delay the setting out you need surprisingly few of them. Placing one at the throat of the yard may be all you actually need. Manual uncoupling of Dinghams is very easy and just involves flipping the loop up.

 

HTH

 

David


Thanks very much for your advice David that’s perfect! 

 

On 14/03/2020 at 15:09, mullie said:

Hope these shots show the modification, I think this has been around for years. I learnt about it from the owner of a very nice Taff Vale BLT at Expo EM in 2018. He spent a lot of time explaining things to me. As I said earlier I use the mk 1 3mm couplings and I cheat by using staples, the fact that I still need to fully blacken the couplings might make things easier to see.

 

IMG_20200314_134335790.jpg.e55035b37ca7deada1c74db3e837fdc8.jpg

 

On my current layout I use hinged Kadee under track magnets, they also work with S&W couplings. They are moved by string! The reason for doing this is I have some Kadee fitted diesels for a 1960s scenario.

 

479574215_HingedKadeemagnet.jpg.322cea8e6d514078a3269b8b3c1e5015.jpg

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Martyn


Thanks very much Martyn, that’s great very clear! Need to get some magnets ordered me thinks! 
 

9ECC1BED-0D5C-41E7-BDFB-1230389D4C5D.jpeg.fe934430e7463deddc28304c769f4895.jpeg

 

Dinghams arrived today so will have something to do during isolation! They look a lovely etch. Will post some photos of how I set them up once I’ve figured it out. 
 

Kind regards,

 

Will

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First Dinghams fitted - I’m very impressed! Just need to order some electro magnets now to try them out properly

 

6F558DAE-210F-4A92-AF2E-FB25E7806BDE.jpeg.dd5858b254053c2441880f782ba770fd.jpeg

 

16152A3E-DDC0-456E-9507-6B2E5B7DB6BF.jpeg.6de5203d938be4e20b41da3294b5d8d9.jpeg

 

8157BB6D-76C3-4650-A9CC-091E63F00A1D.jpeg.405f36bce64b8a50cc91562a97a5005c.jpeg

 

Ive taken the decision to have them stick out quite far at the moment, this will most likely be reduced after I’ve tested it through the points. They’re very subtle which I really like. Time to refine the process with every one I fit! 
 

Any advice or tips would be most welcome! 
 

Will

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Hi Will,

 

Glad you like them. The blackening process makes them look even better, I’ve used gun blue to good effect for the job. The distance you leave them out depends on the sharpness of your curves and your buffers. The instructions cover all this well. Enjoy!

 

Cheers,

 

David

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1 hour ago, davknigh said:

Hi Will,

 

Glad you like them. The blackening process makes them look even better, I’ve used gun blue to good effect for the job. The distance you leave them out depends on the sharpness of your curves and your buffers. The instructions cover all this well. Enjoy!

 

Cheers,

 

David


Thanks David - I’m pretty impressed! Shot a quick video of testing - they need an electro magnet but otherwise I’m chuffed with them! 
 


I’ve also been lucky enough to have a warehouse kit from @DaveClass47 - it looks superb and fits in the scene of the layout perfectly. Just need to order the materials to finish it and get cracking. Was also nice to play trains briefly this evening. 


A1C39D4B-D73F-45DF-9DD1-A69A48848EB8.jpeg.fcd43db881adbd88414caf9519331466.jpeg

 

0F43BF31-CBFB-4399-A4CE-A234AD404C3E.jpeg.49380235b34b248cdc02b5d7848a91c7.jpeg

 

0E64F326-0ABF-44F4-B737-84004DF66E92.jpeg.cba83c8ba7bdaf0826790ff782f2a3fa.jpeg

 

986E5844-A7E8-417A-AD2F-9915F5FF61C9.jpeg.010493510cd5afc44c302f2384dea200.jpeg

 

9BB79B79-1A2D-4925-8767-DFCEC4A0707D.jpeg.ce622dad72ec9cf204d589b210d80f01.jpeg


Looking forward to some more progress this week.

 

Kind regards,

 

Will

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Will.

 

Re the Dinghams, here's my twopenniesworth.

 

Solder the pivot wire into the hook. This way it can't 'wobble' from side to side. Clean up any excess solder. When you fit the loop or the lifting latch to the pivot wire, don't fully bend the tabs with the holes in to a right-angle until both tabs are on the wire. To solder the wire in the hook I cut a tight slot in a piece of wood to hold the hook. I then filed a very shallow slot at rightangle to the hook slot.  I pushed the wire through the hook and then placed the whole in the wood. This holds the wire and hook while you solder.

 

I found it important to smooth off the leading edge of both the hook and the loop so there is no hesitation in coupling up.

 

At out club I used electro magnets. I bought 12v solenoid coils (Just checked, plenty on eBay) and fitted them with a steel rod armature. Bought a length of the right diameter from B&Q.

 

However, events at our Club took a differing direction with the building of our DCC layout and the use of the Brian Kirby magnetic conversion for Bachmann Couplings.

When I settled on the right permanent magnets for these I discovered they work for Dingham but, of course, they are permanent.

These magnets are Neodymium 25 x 10 x 3mm N52 strength bought from Spider Magnets. For dinghams, you will only need singles, of course, not pairs.

 

Now I use the Super Blue first instead of dipping the finished coupling.I36A5171.JPG.257a9d2ed8a547f8dc4c578eb838418a.JPGI36A5171.JPG.257a9d2ed8a547f8dc4c578eb838418a.JPG

I hope the pictures help.

 

Happy to help more if you think I can.

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I36A5164.JPG

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On 18/03/2020 at 10:11, dasatcopthorne said:

Will.

 

Re the Dinghams, here's my twopenniesworth.

 

Solder the pivot wire into the hook. This way it can't 'wobble' from side to side. Clean up any excess solder. When you fit the loop or the lifting latch to the pivot wire, don't fully bend the tabs with the holes in to a right-angle until both tabs are on the wire. To solder the wire in the hook I cut a tight slot in a piece of wood to hold the hook. I then filed a very shallow slot at rightangle to the hook slot.  I pushed the wire through the hook and then placed the whole in the wood. This holds the wire and hook while you solder.

 

I found it important to smooth off the leading edge of both the hook and the loop so there is no hesitation in coupling up.

 

At out club I used electro magnets. I bought 12v solenoid coils (Just checked, plenty on eBay) and fitted them with a steel rod armature. Bought a length of the right diameter from B&Q.

 

However, events at our Club took a differing direction with the building of our DCC layout and the use of the Brian Kirby magnetic conversion for Bachmann Couplings.

When I settled on the right permanent magnets for these I discovered they work for Dingham but, of course, they are permanent.

These magnets are Neodymium 25 x 10 x 3mm N52 strength bought from Spider Magnets. For dinghams, you will only need singles, of course, not pairs.

 

Now I use the Super Blue first instead of dipping the finished coupling.I36A5171.JPG.257a9d2ed8a547f8dc4c578eb838418a.JPGI36A5171.JPG.257a9d2ed8a547f8dc4c578eb838418a.JPG

I hope the pictures help.

 

Happy to help more if you think I can.

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I36A5163.JPG

I36A5164.JPG

I36A5167.JPG

I36A5168.JPG

I36A5169.JPG

I36A5170.JPG

I36A5163.JPG

I36A5164.JPG

20200318_094750.jpg

20200318_094812.jpg

20200318_095006.jpg

20200318_095034.jpg

20200318_095043.jpg

 

Dave that is absolutely superb thanks very much for the help. The idea of soldering the brass wire in to the hook is fantastic, an immediate improvement so thanks very much! Magnets duly ordered for testing and will use the DG electromagnets from Wizard on a rotary switch for the final operation. One question I do have is regarding coupling up, come times the latch just hits the hook, I’m assuming this is completely avoided when the magnets are installed? 

 

Thanks again for the help!

 

Will

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1 hour ago, Southwich said:

 

Dave that is absolutely superb thanks very much for the help. The idea of soldering the brass wire in to the hook is fantastic, an immediate improvement so thanks very much! Magnets duly ordered for testing and will use the DG electromagnets from Wizard on a rotary switch for the final operation. One question I do have is regarding coupling up, come times the latch just hits the hook, I’m assuming this is completely avoided when the magnets are installed? 

 

Thanks again for the help!

 

Will

Hi Will,

 

The other Dave here. Coupling should only need contact of the loop with the hook and the loop should slide up over the hook, push up and under the latch and fall into place. No need for a magnet, electro or otherwise for coupling. The leading edge of the loop should be bent at an angle as per the instructions and the hooks should all be at the same distance above the rail to facilitate this. I’m not sure if your couplings are fixed in place yet but that does make a difference to performance. There’s all sorts of good hints in the instructions as to height above the rails etc..  The one problem that occurs is that some manufacturers don’t have all their buffer beams at the same level :wacko:.

 

Cheers,
 

David

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Looking great Will, now following. I’ve been tempted by EM before now but I’ve concluded (for me at least) there aren’t enough hours in the day, but I can fully appreciate the effort put in and resulting realistic appearance of the trackwork and overall scene. You’ve worked wonders with that track! :yes:

 

Looking forward to more progress, and hope you’re keeping well in these uncertain times.

 

Thanks,

Jack.

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23 hours ago, Southwich said:

 

Dave that is absolutely superb thanks very much for the help. The idea of soldering the brass wire in to the hook is fantastic, an immediate improvement so thanks very much! Magnets duly ordered for testing and will use the DG electromagnets from Wizard on a rotary switch for the final operation. One question I do have is regarding coupling up, come times the latch just hits the hook, I’m assuming this is completely avoided when the magnets are installed? 

 

Thanks again for the help!

 

Will

 

Besides what Dave #2 said, could the loop be catching on the latch. Try taking any sharp edges off the leading edge of the loop, top, front and underside.

 

Dave Smith. #1

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On 19/03/2020 at 15:47, davknigh said:

Hi Will,

 

The other Dave here. Coupling should only need contact of the loop with the hook and the loop should slide up over the hook, push up and under the latch and fall into place. No need for a magnet, electro or otherwise for coupling. The leading edge of the loop should be bent at an angle as per the instructions and the hooks should all be at the same distance above the rail to facilitate this. I’m not sure if your couplings are fixed in place yet but that does make a difference to performance. There’s all sorts of good hints in the instructions as to height above the rails etc..  The one problem that occurs is that some manufacturers don’t have all their buffer beams at the same level :wacko:.

 

Cheers,
 

David


Thanks ‘Other Dave’! Did make me chuckle! Bufferbeam height does seem to be an issue so I’m currently playing around with heights of the couplings. I’ve all but finished two roads in the fiddle yard so planning on wiring them and getting it all set up tonight to do a proper test. 
 

On 20/03/2020 at 13:54, dasatcopthorne said:

 

Besides what Dave #2 said, could the loop be catching on the latch. Try taking any sharp edges off the leading edge of the loop, top, front and underside.

 

Dave Smith. #1

 

Thanks Dave #1! I think because the three way point angle is quite sharp it’s very easy for the Dinghams to come uncoupled. It seems as though my dodgy track isn’t liked by the couplings. Strangely enough the first Dingham I made up which doesn’t have the brass wire soldered into the hook seems to perform slightly better as it has more give and doesn’t come uncoupled. Think I need to test it more - a perfect excuse to play trains! 
 

On 20/03/2020 at 09:12, Jack374 said:

Looking great Will, now following. I’ve been tempted by EM before now but I’ve concluded (for me at least) there aren’t enough hours in the day, but I can fully appreciate the effort put in and resulting realistic appearance of the trackwork and overall scene. You’ve worked wonders with that track! :yes:

 

Looking forward to more progress, and hope you’re keeping well in these uncertain times.

 

Thanks,

Jack.

 

Thanks Jack very kind words! It’s taken a while (and still not finished yet) but I’m very happy with how things are working at the moment. Paint and ballast ordered for potential lock down distractions! 
 

Likewise - stay safe mate! 
 

On 19/03/2020 at 20:45, Departmental203 said:

Fantastic project you're getting on Will! I look forward to progress on this one.

 

I'm becoming really tempted to move onto EM or P4 after seeing this:) from Code 100 Peco OO gauge track!

 

Good luck  , Jules

 

Thanks Jules much appreciated! I think it’s well worth the effort - be interested to see any progress if you do decide to make the change! 
 

In all these uncertain times obviously the best type of therapy is retail therapy - and to that end I’ve purchased a very hard to find model VITrains 37698. I’m currently looking for a set of Shawplan LaserGlaze for it so if anyone has a spare pack please let me know (can’t get through to Brain unfortunately). 
 

37698 rolls into Motts Lane:

 

526BE63C-E947-442E-A0F7-DD755BA06CA3.jpeg.cf8b7edcc1498174074b560c87a29c9f.jpeg

 

I’ve also been laying tracking after painting my fiddle yard so hoping to have a play this evening with the newly arrived DG electro magnets.

F438E0E1-DD1E-495F-B44E-A6B76E57F3EC.jpeg.4ac6fabbddbb16ac95302010ba1b6fdf.jpeg

 

741CDF0B-821C-43C0-9592-7BD9940200CA.jpeg.4d7a3fb4f9c2d59d0032631b5e80a7de.jpeg
 

Stay safe all and happy modelling! 
 

Will

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6 hours ago, Southwich said:

13571BD3-86B2-4258-AB31-9EA65AE4CD8D.jpeg.2af6684963c8bedf914dba1e0a419dae.jpeg

 

Loadhaul Tractors at Motts Lane this evening. Shawplan LaserGlaze ordered so should have something to be getting on with during lockdown!

 

Stay safe everyone!

 

Will

Had good catch up here Will great work by the way,

im following now thanks neil..

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On 24/03/2020 at 04:00, saxokid said:

Had good catch up here Will great work by the way,

im following now thanks neil..


Thanks Neil good to have you on board.

 

This evening I’ve finished all the track work with check rails and cosmetic chairs ready to be sprayed tomorrow weather permitting (it’s supposed to be nice!). I’ve take a few photos of the point work and placed a van on the three way to show scale - it’s a pretty long point!


Normal 1:7 point:

 

8CE20B0F-87F2-4A05-BFE9-63D1A27984C2.jpeg.c43aea41e54bfb13ee004233c3a4b893.jpeg

 

1284ADA7-366D-46CC-85B5-D5DBA183CC72.jpeg.d41d14f587f916381691fda2cf99d79f.jpeg
 

Three way point:

 

635C0BC8-F64A-4AB3-9D80-AF832E389013.jpeg.bd41e3b89b61f9c116d27740c278f52b.jpeg

 

F018F582-A7EF-436F-B58C-2ACF25F87B32.jpeg.ab6e1989eab731b7e1523f81d64927f6.jpeg

 

8F4BC2BF-CF1B-4D17-BA53-5C2899C9B4DA.jpeg.ca60d662c24858dd9110da0292f5a65b.jpeg

 

0F07E87A-6037-4A08-9950-EF90BFF1E1DB.jpeg.ebf6fbe5d2198aa37d8223c1a80b9060.jpeg

 

A87391DE-AE77-4647-B26B-1574553A178B.jpeg.9e090544c4b462ba26b79b4f4520c509.jpeg

 

Hopefully by the end of the weekend I’ll have managed to get all of the initial track colours sprayed. Happy modelling everyone and stay safe! 

Kind regards,

Will

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1 hour ago, Southwich said:


Thanks Neil good to have you on board.

 

This evening I’ve finished all the track work with check rails and cosmetic chairs ready to be sprayed tomorrow weather permitting (it’s supposed to be nice!). I’ve take a few photos of the point work and placed a van on the three way to show scale - it’s a pretty long point!


Normal 1:7 point:

 

8CE20B0F-87F2-4A05-BFE9-63D1A27984C2.jpeg.c43aea41e54bfb13ee004233c3a4b893.jpeg

 

1284ADA7-366D-46CC-85B5-D5DBA183CC72.jpeg.d41d14f587f916381691fda2cf99d79f.jpeg
 

Three way point:

 

635C0BC8-F64A-4AB3-9D80-AF832E389013.jpeg.bd41e3b89b61f9c116d27740c278f52b.jpeg

 

F018F582-A7EF-436F-B58C-2ACF25F87B32.jpeg.ab6e1989eab731b7e1523f81d64927f6.jpeg

 

8F4BC2BF-CF1B-4D17-BA53-5C2899C9B4DA.jpeg.ca60d662c24858dd9110da0292f5a65b.jpeg

 

0F07E87A-6037-4A08-9950-EF90BFF1E1DB.jpeg.ebf6fbe5d2198aa37d8223c1a80b9060.jpeg

 

A87391DE-AE77-4647-B26B-1574553A178B.jpeg.9e090544c4b462ba26b79b4f4520c509.jpeg

 

Hopefully by the end of the weekend I’ll have managed to get all of the initial track colours sprayed. Happy modelling everyone and stay safe! 

Kind regards,

Will

More top work here Will,im following this:good:

Looking forward to another update now...

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