Dewchurch

[lmsforever]

Anyone know were I could get OO gauge shop interior model kits ?

[Gopher]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Good to see a loco modelled with an empty or part empty tender!

Thanks Johnster,  I think more realistic to have some variety in the tenders of locos.   Personally I quite like the part empty look, gives me a chance to weather the inside of the tender.  If I put a decent speaker in the tender my options are more limited though. 

[Gopher]

5 minutes ago, lmsforever said:

Anyone know were I could get OO gauge shop interior model kits ?

Have a look at the Langley Models website.  I used a couple of their white metal shop interior kits for the window displays on my recent Petite Properties shops.  I am not sure how much detail you are after, but from memory they offer a grocer, baker, saddler and I think possibly an iron monger, and a fish monger.  They look quite good when painted.  Apart from Langley - I am not sure if anyone else  offers interiors.              

[Gopher]

My second attempt at improving the rough road surfaces in the street scenes on the layout.  Here we have before and after photos of George Street, complete with a new hand painted Zebra Crossing.  The crossing looks quite good from a distance, a bit dodgy when you examine it closely.  I could of course stick a vehicle on the crossing to hide the worse bits.  I think it is an improvement on it's predecessor which was a printed self adhesive job.  So whilst the stripes were perfect, it never stuck properly to the road with raised edges.  At least the road is now much smoother.       

 

   

Edited June 13, 2020 by Gopher

[Gopher]

Some of the patient passengers at Dewchurch station.  Mixture of Modelu, Monty's models 

[Gopher]

Driver about to start class 35 Hymek to leave refuelling point.  King Edward V111 gets a clean in the background

[lmsforever]

The high street looks good always seemed to see a member of the services about in yoour timeline have put my new buildings on the layout .Very pleased changes the look of the townscape completely will get some mor I think .

[MrWolf]

That road surface is much more convincing, as is the zebra crossing. Modern ones are almost printed onto the road by machines, but thirty or more years ago they were done with a hot lay paint by handcart. The edges were then sealed with bitumen in the same way tarmac patches were. The surface was often a good half inch thick too, so painted on wins over printed decal every time. Why am I rambling about this? I have had to research how a zebra crossing used to look for a painting I have just finished. No, it's nothing to do with Abbey Road or.The Beatles!

[Gopher]

7 hours ago, lmsforever said:

The high street looks good always seemed to see a member of the services about in yoour timeline have put my new buildings on the layout .Very pleased changes the look of the townscape completely will get some mor I think .

Thanks Imsforever.  It is remarkable how things you took for granted in the  1950s, 1960s and even the 1970s have disappeared.  I can clearly remember service personnel in their uniforms on public transport, and in towns and cities.   Dare I mention bobbies on the beat or directing traffic.   I also remember many women of a certain age wearing head scarves, something you rarely see in the off the shelf figures available.  Nowadays the model high street would be full of people staring at their mobiles !   One thing I am thinking of adding to some of the shops is a scratch built window sun blind.  The type that used to be out side and pulled out over the pavement.  You rarely see these, but again very common in the 1950s and 1960s.   

 

Glad the new buildings improved your townscape, do you have any photos ?           

[Gopher]

2 hours ago, MrWolf said:

That road surface is much more convincing, as is the zebra crossing. Modern ones are almost printed onto the road by machines, but thirty or more years ago they were done with a hot lay paint by handcart. The edges were then sealed with bitumen in the same way tarmac patches were. The surface was often a good half inch thick too, so painted on wins over printed decal every time. Why am I rambling about this? I have had to research how a zebra crossing used to look for a painting I have just finished. No, it's nothing to do with Abbey Road or.The Beatles!

Thanks Mr Wolf.  I think my hand painted version is better than what was there before, and you have helped me justify its slightly rough look.  Now you mention it I do recall the stripes on the Zebra Crossings of old being slightly raised because of the thick layer of paint used.

 

You must have to research some strange things for your paintings !  I think Zebra Crossings will always be linked with the Beatles and Abbey Road.      

[MrWolf]

I have always been fascinated by older street scenes, as you must have to be with your attention to detail. It probably won't show up here, but it is slightly bumpy, the black is bluish grey and the white is grey / yellow with the odd tiny black streak from tyres. I was very pleased that most people don't notice (until it would be too late) that the girl on the bicycle is pointing an automatic straight at them.

[MrWolf]

On the subject of window blinds, do you remember seeing the front window of certain shops that sold fragile items (book stores, haberdashers, even some toyshops) had the window display protected not only by a blind but also thin translucent yellow cellophane, like the stuff that used to be wrapped around Lucozade bottles. It was quite common into the 70s.

[chuffinghell]

21 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

People don't notice (until it would be too late) that the girl on the bicycle is pointing an automatic straight at them.

Fantastic painting! I admit that I didn’t notice because I was looking at the motorbike, honest officer

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by chuffinghell

[figworthy]

27 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

I was very pleased that most people don't notice (until it would be too late) that the girl on the bicycle is pointing an automatic straight at them.

 

Sorry, but it was the first thing I did notice.

 

Adrian

[MrWolf]

Thanks, I hope nobody minds me posting it. Pictures that look normal but turn out to be sinister is what I do when not swearing at motorbikes or GWR crane kits.

In case you missed the gun, the painting started out with this.

Edited June 15, 2020 by MrWolf

[MrWolf]

4 minutes ago, figworthy said:

 

Sorry, but it was the first thing I did notice.

 

Adrian

 

Good. That's the whole idea, some people have the ability to home in on what is immediate in whatever they see. Many find that they take in everything and then break it down. I sent it to a friend who had spent a lot of time in combat, he spotted it straight away too.

[St Enodoc]

 

3 hours ago, figworthy said:

 

Sorry, but it was the first thing I did notice.

 

Adrian

Me too I'm afraid. Had it been a bloke on the bike that might not have been so...

[MrWolf]

43 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

 

Me too I'm afraid. Had it been a bloke on the bike that might not have been so...

 

Either you've been married too long or spent some time as a "Private security consultant"?

 

To be honest, more men than women notice that she's pulled a gun, but in the actual situations that inspired this painting, there is another motorcycle that pulls up alongside your drivers window whilst you are distracted by the pretty girl with a bicycle or a pushchair on the crossing. That van that has stopped in front of the crossing? That pulled out in front of you earlier and you've been stuck behind it a while haven't you?

[MrWolf]

53 minutes ago, Lantavian said:

 

But to be fair, the eye is drawn to areas of high contrast, so most people would look at the right-hand side of zebra crossing first, and the stripes then point towards the motorbike, which is an area of higher contrast than the rest of the painting. The top half of the lady on the bike is relatively low contrast.

 

Was that all deliberate?

 

Thankyou. The composition was quite deliberate. Although the girl on the bicycle is right in front of you, your eye should be drawn around the van as it would if you were sat in a queue. The view blocking poster boards at the back draw the eye toward the side street behind the cafe, as well as what is going on inside. Likewise the black Vauxhall at the back is at an angle to take the eye around the front of the van, creating more depth. The same effect with the shop and shadows to left of the van. The old kangol crash helmet that the motorcyclist is wearing is against the blue background of the Borgward car, another thing to fool the eye. He is looking intently to his left which makes the viewer look at the edge of the picture. The van in 1950s shooting brake tan paint provides a neutral background that the figure both stands out from because of the polka dot pattern on her dress following the contours of her figure and the less contrasting hair and skin tones almost blending in. The position of her right leg and contrast against the zebra crossing keep the image 3D.

 

Apologies again, this got out of hand, it started with a conversation about zebra crossings....

 

What has this got to do with railway modelling rather than just running trains?

Everything really. We are trying to create a convincing picture in 3D. We want the viewer to look for hidden details, to create corners that we can't quite see around. To create a feeling of space where there is none. To add convincing details, or more importantly, the impression of such, that give us clues to the location and the time period. To position these details in realistic ways and not overcrowd the scene.

The best layouts (like this one!) manage all of the above, it's that layout you see at an exhibition which you go back to again and again. It's about observation and creating a complete picture.

Edited June 16, 2020 by MrWolf

[St Enodoc]

58 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

 

Thankyou. The composition was quite deliberate. Although the girl on the bicycle is right in front of you, your eye should be drawn around the van as it would if you were sat in a queue. The view blocking poster boards at the back draw the eye toward the side street behind the cafe, as well as what is going on inside. Likewise the black Vauxhall at the back is at an angle to take the eye around the front of the van, creating more depth. The same effect with the shop and shadows to left of the van. The old kangol crash helmet that the motorcyclist is wearing is against the blue background of the Borgward car, another thing to fool the eye. He is looking intently to his left which makes the viewer look at the edge of the picture. The van in 1950s shooting brake tan paint provides a neutral background that the figure both stands out from because of the polka dot pattern on her dress following the contours of her figure and the less contrasting hair and skin tones almost blending in. The position of her right leg and contrast against the zebra crossing keep the image 3D.

 

Apologies again, this got out of hand, it started with a conversation about zebra crossings....

 

What has this got to do with railway modelling rather than just running trains?

Everything really. We are trying to create a convincing picture in 3D. We want the viewer to look for hidden details, to create corners that we can't quite see around. To create a feeling of space where there is none. To add convincing details, or more importantly, the impression of such, that give us clues to the location and the time period. To position these details in realistic ways and not overcrowd the scene.

The best layouts (like this one!) manage all of the above, it's that layout you see at an exhibition which you go back to again and again. It's about observation and creating a complete picture.

All that's as may be but my eye was definitely drawn to the young lady on the bike!

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Lantavian said:

 

I think this is an area that needs to be explored more.

 

Modellers strive for accuracy.

 

But an accurate model might not actually be realistic, because of all sorts of optical illusions.  

 

Colour, for example: you might have painted your loco or coaches in the exact shade used by a railway for its livery. But the smaller the model, the less realistic the accurate colour looks. 

 

Artists and theatre designers have known about this for centuries. But it doesn't seem to come up much (in my experience) in model railway circles.

 

You're an artist: Are there any other optical illusions modellers should need to understand?

 

 

Ah, we're getting into the realms of a long debate in the letters pages of the Railway Modeller back in the 70s, about authenticity and realism.

[MrWolf]

5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

All that's as may be but my eye was definitely drawn to the young lady on the bike!

Thankyou, she was most flattered and she's still only on her first cup of tea for today!

[MrWolf]

5 hours ago, Lantavian said:

 

I think this is an area that needs to be explored more.

 

Modellers strive for accuracy.

 

But an accurate model might not actually be realistic, because of all sorts of optical illusions.  

 

Colour, for example: you might have painted your loco or coaches in the exact shade used by a railway for its livery. But the smaller the model, the less realistic the accurate colour looks. 

 

Artists and theatre designers have known about this for centuries. But it doesn't seem to come up much (in my experience) in model railway circles.

 

You're an artist: Are there any other optical illusions modellers should need to understand?

 

 

 

I really don't know that I can tell you much that hasn't come up before, but here goes.

 

The first thing is that although you can buy pure white and black paint, nothing in reality is pure white, I add a tiny dot of black and often bright yellow to the mix which tones it down so it doesn't look like it was painted ten minutes ago. It also covers better.

Likewise black gets a small amount of dark brown and often a spot of white. For well used metal mix in gunmetal / steel colours. It looks less flat because you see shapes better if all the light isn't absorbed.

Shine / gloss. This is a tricky one, with few exceptions such as water, glass and chromium plate, few things are truly shiny and when we scale down we need to reduce the shine. Also full gloss paint on a model makes the paint look about a scale four inches thick.

Colour and scale reduction. There is always going to be debate on what shade of maroon the LMS used on March 17th 1938 and the truth is that the men who could tell you are probably all dead and even if they weren't they would all give you a different answer. My other half is colour blind to shades of blue, I can't imagine how she sees the world. But we have very accurate scale colours, which are deliberately lighter than the real thing. Why? Because if you paint a 4mm loco with the actual green used by BR it will look almost black. It would have the opposite effect using model paint on a surviving Britannia.

keep the colours light, strident colours especially brick reds, grass greens yellows and blues, especially in close proximity will always look toylike.

Lighting. It's not just about how well the subject is physically lit with daylight bulbs, but again the lightness of colours, keep things muted and the model appears naturally lit. That is the same rule if you are modelling a summer Saturday in the Cotswolds or a wet Monday morning in Lancashire. Any artificial light will then enhance it.

 

Have a good look at Dewchurch, the colours have a kind of flow which fool the eye into accepting the whole picture, there is nothing that jars the senses. Then when you get your daily exercise notice how reality is quite subtly coloured. It's not easy at first because we take it for granted. Another good example of colour creating the illusion of space and reality is Little Muddle. It too is modestly sized but so well observed.

 

Thankyou again to Gopher for sharing his wonderful creation with us and for allowing me to nick his thread a while.

[Gopher]

15 hours ago, MrWolf said:

I have always been fascinated by older street scenes, as you must have to be with your attention to detail. It probably won't show up here, but it is slightly bumpy, the black is bluish grey and the white is grey / yellow with the odd tiny black streak from tyres. I was very pleased that most people don't notice (until it would be too late) that the girl on the bicycle is pointing an automatic straight at them.

Good Morning All

 

What a wonderful composition.  I am afraid I did not notice the gun or anything else, apart from the woman on the bike (and the Zebra crossing for some strange reason).  Of course the more you look at the painting the more you see.  Brilliant.

 

Interesting debate about striving for reality in our modelling.  Personally I aim for an illusion of reality (which of course is probably true for most of us) .  I have little knowledge of the various schools of art but have always thought of my approach to railway modelling as being impressionist.  By that I mean from a distance scenes tend to work hopefully with a degree of consistency, but look closely and you will find flaws.  Also I do not run the layout in a strictly proto-typical fashion.  So I will never achieve reality.

 

Street scenes are fascinating, especially trying to recreate one from 50 or 60 years ago.  I do remember some shops having thin translucent yellow cellophane in the windows.   When I look at my own street scenes I think the buildings may be too clean.  People dressed more conservatively, not many bright colours on display, hats much more in evidence on women and men.  I don't remember many bright coloured cars (my dad had a red A40), most cars seems to be black or grey of darkish greens, blues maroons.

 

Remember a time when coal was king, coal fires in every house.  I remember visiting London as a child in the 60s and St Pauls, Nelson's column were virtually black (as were most of the buildings in major cities of the time).    

 

I have seen layouts at exhibitions where there is a very high degree of fidelity with the locos and rolling stock, but then (In my view) this is let down because the buildings, or scenery or the figures are not anywhere near the same standard.   Broad church this modelling lark a we strive for reality,  just as well really.            

[Gopher]

Illusion for today is King Edward V111 at the coaling stage with 7F in the spur