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Bachmann 4BEP


Paul.Uni
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Whilst not in the market for the BEP I’ve been following this project with some interest. I own a 4TC and thought it was a brilliant model. I’ve welcomed the new era of Bachmann DMUs, the (121,117,158/9) with open arms. However this project is a slight concern, much like with the recent 150/2. A small tooling mod to a good, but ageing tooling is now costing £499 rrp. It is a shame to see no motor or coupling upgrade, my experience with the bar arrangement has been awful. However I do hope this doesn’t put Bachmann off doing units. I just hope they put full effort in, like with the 47 project. 

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16 hours ago, robertcwp said:

I was pleased to find the alternative gangway door has the headcode 40 (pre-1978 this was Victoria-Bognor Regis via Dorking) as I often travelled on a Bep as a child on trips with my mother to the seaside at Bognor Regis.


In my case it was Dorking to Littlehampton to see grandparents, changing from the Portsmouth/Bognor train at Arundel into the 2-car shuttle from the down bay.

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1 minute ago, brushman47544 said:


In my case it was Dorking to Littlehampton to see grandparents, changing from the Portsmouth/Bognor train at Arundel into the 2-car shuttle from the down bay.

For many years, there was an evening peak departure from Victoria to Littlehampton via Dorking. It was listed as Cor/Buf until 1964, then Cep/Bep and finally Cig/Bep. It was withdrawn in the May 1978 timetable change, if not before. In one timetable I looked at, the train called at Sutton, Boxhill & Westhumble then almost all stations to Littlehampton, including Holmwood, Ockley & Capel and Warnham. I don't think I have ever seen a photo of that working and don't know the headcode.

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4 hours ago, robertcwp said:

For many years, there was an evening peak departure from Victoria to Littlehampton via Dorking. It was listed as Cor/Buf until 1964, then Cep/Bep and finally Cig/Bep. It was withdrawn in the May 1978 timetable change, if not before. In one timetable I looked at, the train called at Sutton, Boxhill & Westhumble then almost all stations to Littlehampton, including Holmwood, Ockley & Capel and Warnham. I don't think I have ever seen a photo of that working and don't know the headcode.


Yes, I remember the 17.00 too. Headcode was 50. When I used it in the 70s, it also called at Epsom and was therefore 8 cars only. It stopped at Boxhill & Westhumble because a very senior manager (can’t recall if BR or SR) lived there. Olddudders may remember. 
 

Coming from London I preferred the 17.28 Victoria to Bognor Regis as that was first stop Dorking.

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1 hour ago, brushman47544 said:


Yes, I remember the 17.00 too. Headcode was 50. When I used it in the 70s, it also called at Epsom and was therefore 8 cars only. It stopped at Boxhill & Westhumble because a very senior manager (can’t recall if BR or SR) lived there. Olddudders may remember. 
 

Coming from London I preferred the 17.28 Victoria to Bognor Regis as that was first stop Dorking.

Sadly I can't add any name for the toff at Boxhill. It was always an 8-car in my time. Bob Acres, BR(S) Public Relations Officer, lived at Coldharbour. His younger son was in my year at school. The 17.28, which I also adored, had a clever cross-platform interchange at Dorking w the 17.22 Waterloo to Horsham, which I think in the original 1967 WTT recast was fast Waterloo to Motspur Park. 

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1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

Sadly I can't add any name for the toff at Boxhill. It was always an 8-car in my time. Bob Acres, BR(S) Public Relations Officer, lived at Coldharbour. His younger son was in my year at school. The 17.28, which I also adored, had a clever cross-platform interchange at Dorking w the 17.22 Waterloo to Horsham, which I think in the original 1967 WTT recast was fast Waterloo to Motspur Park. 

By 1970, the 1722 from Waterloo also called at Wimbledon, then Motspur Park, Epsom and all stations to Horsham. The 1700 from Victoria called at Sutton but not Epsom, then all stations from Boxhill & Westhumble to Littlehampton.

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Something I have noticed is that the Bachmann instructions for how to couple up the Bep have the buffet car the wrong way round. When I coupled mine, I did it the correct way round and the unit worked. You can see in my previous post with the photo which way round the buffet is meant to be.

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Slight tangent, how were these fasts routed from Victoria ?

 

Todays layout, at the junctions at Streatham most stuff takes the slow up the hill, odd one the fast, and onto the Mitcham junction lines. This certainly doesnt feel fast, its probably 20mph at best up the hill, across the Brighton mainline and over the Tooting lines junction.. did these go via Clapham or via Brixton ?

 

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16 hours ago, robertcwp said:

Something I have noticed is that the Bachmann instructions for how to couple up the Bep have the buffet car the wrong way round. When I coupled mine, I did it the correct way round and the unit worked. You can see in my previous post with the photo which way round the buffet is meant to be.

It’s the same with my 4CEP – one vehicle is the wrong way round. It’s the one with the moulded lettering on the base upside down compared to the other three.

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11 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

It’s the same with my 4CEP – one vehicle is the wrong way round. It’s the one with the moulded lettering on the base upside down compared to the other three.

Back in the pre-COVID days of exhibitions, I rarely saw a 4 Cep formed correctly on an exhibition layout. For the trailers, the corridors should be on opposite sides, first class towards the centre and lavatories in the trailer second next to the adjacent motor brake.

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11 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Slight tangent, how were these fasts routed from Victoria ?

 

Todays layout, at the junctions at Streatham most stuff takes the slow up the hill, odd one the fast, and onto the Mitcham junction lines. This certainly doesnt feel fast, its probably 20mph at best up the hill, across the Brighton mainline and over the Tooting lines junction.. did these go via Clapham or via Brixton ?

 

If you mean the Portsmouth/Bognor via Dorking services, they used the fast lines from Victoria via Clapham Junction (non-stop) as far as the junctions at Streatham. The connection from the fast lines to the Sutton line used to be double track.

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52 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

If you mean the Portsmouth/Bognor via Dorking services, they used the fast lines from Victoria via Clapham Junction (non-stop) as far as the junctions at Streatham. The connection from the fast lines to the Sutton line used to be double track.

Thanks, how was the junction at the split of Mitcham /Tooting lines ?

 

it looks like it could have once been 4 track from after  the Streatham line bridge or is it as is today, 2 lines from Streatham merging into 2 lines, then a split at the Mitcham / Tooting lines ?

 

 its all a bit slow and messy there today (c20mph is regardless whether slow or fast up the slope and over both junctions).

 

Fyi there are a few semi-fasts today from Carshalton non-stop to Clapham and a couple use the fast, (1807/2007 from Dorking today for example), invariably though theres 3-4 mins slack into the timetable, which means a wait on the connecting lines for the path through Balham, or a wait at Carshalton in the opposite direction.

 

That inbuilt slack means a “semi” is a misnomer, the service is only 3 minutes faster than the stopping, as your still stopping somewhere just not at the stations enroute.

 

The idea of a Buffet service on this line, compared to todays 30 min run is amusing.

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3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Thanks, how was the junction at the split of Mitcham /Tooting lines ?

 

it looks like it could have once been 4 track from after  the Streatham line bridge or is it as is today, 2 lines from Streatham merging into 2 lines, then a split at the Mitcham / Tooting lines ?

 

 its all a bit slow and messy there today (c20mph is regardless whether slow or fast up the slope and over both junctions).

 

Fyi there are a few semi-fasts today from Carshalton non-stop to Clapham and a couple use the fast, (1807/2007 from Dorking today for example), invariably though theres 3-4 mins slack into the timetable, which means a wait on the connecting lines for the path through Balham, or a wait at Carshalton in the opposite direction.

 

That inbuilt slack means a “semi” is a misnomer, the service is only 3 minutes faster than the stopping, as your still stopping somewhere just not at the stations enroute.

 

The idea of a Buffet service on this line, compared to todays 30 min run is amusing.

So far as I am aware, it was only double track but there were also connections to Eardley Carriage Sidings, which were for steam stock and taken out of service in the early 1960s. Having stood empty for decades, the site was redeveloped for housing in the 1990s or thereabouts. It had been planned to be the site of a motorway junction.

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7 hours ago, robertcwp said:

I rarely saw a 4 Cep formed correctly on an exhibition layout.

Same here.  There was / is an assumption, I suspect, that the corridor should be on the same side for both trailer coaches which is not the case.  They were rarely if ever mis-formed in service either.  A few temporary re-formations took place but the substitute coach was always the correct way round.  It had to be for various electrical reasons I believe.  

 

3 hours ago, robertcwp said:

So far as I am aware, it was only double track but there were also connections to Eardley Carriage Sidings

The junctions at Streatham were indeed double track feeds from / to both Brighton Slow and Brighton Fast lines converging above and to the west of the flyover.  The Victoria - Sutton - Barnham - Portsmouth / Bognor Regis trains normally used the fast line connections which were double track (but which slightly impeded pathing of trains to / from Croydon) before following the rather sedate route through Mitcham Junction, where they called, and Sutton to reach the Mid-Sussex Line (now the Arun Valley Line) at Horsham.  The front unit was for Portsmouth - the rear (or rear two of a 12-car train) for Bognor which always included the buffet just the same as is the case, minus catering of course, today.  Headcode was 20 for the Portsmouth portion and 40 for Bognor with 23 / 43 used for peak-hour London Bridge trains via Peckham Rye. 

 

When SR management decided there was more business on offer at Gatwick Airport (and probably Crawley) they cheerfully removed the fasts from the Sutton route which if nothing else shifted a conflicting move over flat junctions from Streatham to Three Bridges! 

Edited by Gwiwer
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38 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

Same here.  There was / is an assumption, I suspect, that the corridor should be on the same side for both trailer coaches which is not the case.  They were rarely if ever mis-formed in service either.  A few temporary re-formations took place but the substitute coach was always the correct way round.  It had to be for various electrical reasons I believe.  

 

The junctions at Streatham were indeed double track feeds from / to both Brighton Slow and Brighton Fast lines converging above and to the west of the flyover.  The Victoria - Sutton - Barnham - Portsmouth / Bognor Regis trains normally used the fast line connections which were double track (but which slightly impeded pathing of trains to / from Croydon) before following the rather sedate route through Mitcham Junction, where they called, and Sutton to reach the Mid-Sussex Line (now the Arun Valley Line) at Horsham.  The front unit was for Portsmouth - the rear (or rear two of a 12-car train) for Bognor which always included the buffet just the same as is the case, minus catering of course, today.  Headcode was 20 for the Portsmouth portion and 40 for Bognor with 23 / 43 used for peak-hour London Bridge trains via Peckham Rye. 

 

When SR management decided there was more business on offer at Gatwick Airport (and probably Crawley) they cheerfully removed the fasts from the Sutton route which if nothing else shifted a conflicting move over flat junctions from Streatham to Three Bridges! 

Yes, I believe the trailers would only go together one way round. It was also the case with the pre-war express stock although in that case the corridors were always on the same side. 

 

The Portsmouth/Bognor trains did not generally call at any station between Victoria and Dorking except Sutton. I don't recall them ever calling at either Mitcham Junction or Epsom. Dorking and Sutton had (and probably still have) 12-car platforms. The oddity as noted above was the 17.00 or thereabouts to Littlehampton, which was 8-car and called at Sutton, Boxhill & Westhumble and all stations south thereof. In the timetables I looked at from c1970, the peak-hour London Bridge trains were running via East Croydon but that may not have been the case in earlier years. May 1978 was when the regular service switched to the Gatwick route, except a few peak-hour trains which remained via Sutton until May 1984 and some Saturday trains, possibly whilst the engineering works were going on north of East Croydon in the early 1980s.

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On 20/09/2021 at 18:34, robertcwp said:

The Portsmouth/Bognor trains did not generally call at any station between Victoria and Dorking except Sutton. I don't recall them ever calling at either Mitcham Junction or Epsom. Dorking and Sutton had (and probably still have) 12-car platforms. The oddity as noted above was the 17.00 or thereabouts to Littlehampton, which was 8-car and called at Sutton, Boxhill & Westhumble and all stations south thereof. In the timetables I looked at from c1970, the peak-hour London Bridge trains were running via East Croydon but that may not have been the case in earlier years. May 1978 was when the regular service switched to the Gatwick route, except a few peak-hour trains which remained via Sutton until May 1984 and some Saturday trains, possibly whilst the engineering works were going on north of East Croydon in the early 1980s.

 

In my lifetime (1960s on) I certainly don't remember any Mid-Sussex main line trains running via Dorking to or from London Bridge. They only ever served Victoria. Mondays to Fridays in the up direction, the first train via Dorking from the coast departed Dorking at (I think) 10.07 calling at Sutton only. There was also an 8-VEP diagrammed train that started at Horsham I think which departed from Dorking at 09.00 and called at more stations than just Sutton. So for commuting, Dorking was better off after the May 1978 timetable change in that there was a main line train from Bognor departing Dorking at 07.5x. It was my regular commute until diverted via Gatwick in May 1984.

 

Incidentally, there was a landslip south of Dorking some months before May 1984 causing single line working using the down line, which saw that train diverted via Gatwick. It ran one final time via Dorking on the last day of the timetable in May 1984.

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Hi,

 

Having had a number of Bachmann 4CEP chassis damaged when being taken off a layout after an exhibition I'm thinking about swapping my 4BEP over to Hunt style magnetic couplings between the coaches.

 

For the time being that would mean forgoing lighting control.

 

A while ago I had the germ of an idea for sending data between coaches using a single electrical connection (return via DCC with pickups on each coach that needs it).

Then for example data to turn lights on and off could be sent from the coach with the DCC decoder to the other coaches in the set. Challenges would be reducing the cost and the size of the electronics to do this and getting a sufficiently conductive magnet*. * I think many NEO magnets have a conductive protective coating over them.

 

Regards

 

Nick

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Although I have both a CEP and a BEP, until I have semi-permanent berthing facilities on a layout they do just tend to sit in a box as coupling them up is such a faff. The Hornby 4VEP is also very fiddly. It's not nearly so much of an issue with 2 car units and the beefier electrical couplings that Bachmann have used on the Class 117, 158 etc are better but none are really ideal for constant use. 

The ideal solution would seem to me engineering an electrically live magnetic coupling pair that simply plugged into the existing electrical NEM socket and then allowed a pair of coaches to be pushed together for both mechanical and electrical contact, and pulled apart to separate. 

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34 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

Although I have both a CEP and a BEP, until I have semi-permanent berthing facilities on a layout they do just tend to sit in a box as coupling them up is such a faff. The Hornby 4VEP is also very fiddly. It's not nearly so much of an issue with 2 car units and the beefier electrical couplings that Bachmann have used on the Class 117, 158 etc are better but none are really ideal for constant use. 

The ideal solution would seem to me engineering an electrically live magnetic coupling pair that simply plugged into the existing electrical NEM socket and then allowed a pair of coaches to be pushed together for both mechanical and electrical contact, and pulled apart to separate. 

Hi,

 

For Bachmann two contact electrical couplings it might be possible to have two magnets half the size of the Hunt standard magnet with an electrical insulator in between:

348929159_TWOPOLECOUPLING.jpg.4cf07d080790ac88d6bd8bb4fd61df23.jpg

 

Regards

 

Nick

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