The Yorkshire Steam Railway: All Aboard. series Three

[Jeff Smith]

4 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

The other wildlife expert David Sheppard was trying to save them at the time.

 

 

 

Jason

He bought Black Prince directly from BR and I believe it had just been overhauled!  He was a painter although many of his pictures were wildlife based, particularly elephants.  His autobiography is definitely worth a read!

 

I have not seen any previous series, it hasn't made it to the US, but I watched as I am visiting the UK.  I did pick up on the unique 9F reference though as I have ridden behind Black Prince in the eighties on the East Somerset Railway.  As commented upon, this programme is squarely aimed at the general public just like many others about deep sea fishermen, air freight carriers, airport operators, etc.  Edited for drama.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

2 minutes ago, melmerby said:

...It means you don't have to be ready at exactly the time it starts.

And a further advantage, you never watch the stuff that you clearly were never that interested in! I reckon we dump unwatched fully 50%: if you haven't watched it after a month, then clearly it wasn't really that engaging.

[rab]

5 hours ago, bgman said:

I am just pleased that the programme is exists !

 

I don't find it necessary to find fault and enjoy watching the trials and tribulations of a preserved railway without the need for minute criticism .

Yes we all know that editing can be somewhat disjointed but why not take it as a whole and relax when there is virtually nothing other than bad news and cr*p shown on most television these days.

 

I will look forward to the next episode cup of tea in hand hoping that Piglets bits survive !

 

G

My comment was intended as tongue in cheek,

hence the addition of Mr. Smiley 

Edited February 29, 2020 by rab
Autocorrect not compatible with fat fingers

[russ p]

59 minutes ago, melmerby said:

It is not a documentary.

It's a light entertainment series about a heritage railway.

 

But that is partly the point factual programs now have to some type of drama or comedy injected into it .

Whilst I don't mind the series I find traditional documentaries like the yarmouth one far more engaging 

[APOLLO]

7 hours ago, Hroth said:

And if that were MY King, I'd be petrified by the lack of clearance!

 

You would have thought Yorkshire railwaymen would have learned from past experience regarding ex GW locos and platform clearances !!

 

https://www.facebook.com/DidcotRailwayCentre/photos/50-years-ago-today-on-15-august-1964-no-6858-woolston-grange-worked-the-0855-bou/942553452438210/

 

Brit15

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Doesn't everybody record and skip now?

 

I got told off for admitting that I'd done just that when the dire adaptation of "War of the Worlds" was broadcast at the end of last year.  Must admit, at the rate I was going, I got through a 45min+ episode in less than 20 minutes..... 

 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

 

I got through a 45min+ episode in less than 20 minutes..... 

 

You mean that there was 20min worth watching?

[bgman]

2 hours ago, rab said:

My comment was intended as tongue in cheek,

hence the addition of Mr. Smiley 

Sorry chap I didn't quote you and if you took it to be so then I'm sorry !

[Captain Kernow]

I noticed many continuity issues but I just didn't care. One moment the 9F had it's smoke deflectors on, then it didn't, then it was in steam, then someone was just lighting the fire, then someone else was eating a cream tea.

 

It was all fab.

 

[railroadbill]

8 hours ago, russ p said:

 

That's the problem with a lot of modern TV is all the false jeopardy 

When you watch a documentary from the past there is a lot less of it an more factual information 

Like this for example 

 

http://www.eafa.org.uk/catalogue/5493

Excellent documentary, 47s in blue with domino head codes, great!

[Jeff Smith]

Just curious here.  The 9F's steam pipes were shown being bolted in place but no torque wrench evident, was this edited out or were they not torqued?......

 

Also, the re-soldered pipe which was so hard to remove and re-install I hope would have been pressure tested first!.

 

Apologies, this may just be my aerospace engineering side coming out......things seemed a bit slapdash!

Edited February 29, 2020 by Jeff Smith

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Jeff Smith said:

Just curious here.  The 9F's steam pipes were shown being bolted in place but no torque wrench evident, was this edited out or were they not torqued?......

 

Also, the re-soldered pipe which was so hard to remove and re-install I hope would have been pressure tested first!.

 

Apologies, this may just be my aerospace engineering side coming out......things seemed a bit slapdash!

a)  It looked like it was tightened to however tight they could get it.

 

b)  Have they got the equipment to pressure test individual parts?

 

 

[melmerby]

4 hours ago, APOLLO said:

 

You would have thought Yorkshire railwaymen would have learned from past experience regarding ex GW locos and platform clearances !!

 

https://www.facebook.com/DidcotRailwayCentre/photos/50-years-ago-today-on-15-august-1964-no-6858-woolston-grange-worked-the-0855-bou/942553452438210/

 

Brit15

Better not try a Stanier Princess on the NYMR

They are supposedly ½" wider at the same height, a full 9' 0" compared to the "slimline" King at only 8' 11½", however the Princess does have a scalloped buffer beam unlike GWR locos which is another source of platform strikes. The King they were gauging did show signs of previous buffer beam scraping.

Edited February 29, 2020 by melmerby

[Hroth]

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

You mean that there was 20min worth watching?

 

You have to pause to get a handle on whats going on, sometimes there's meaningful dialogue, it all adds up.

Of course, the major skips were the sepia-toned sequences! 

 

Back to the YSR...

 

I'm not against the programme, and there's no point in getting wound up about the manufactured "tension".  If there's nothing else on its just nice to see steam engines chuntering around!  BIG steam engines, PROPER steam engines, even if painted in a gaudy blue...

 

 

1 hour ago, Jeff Smith said:

Just curious here.  The 9F's steam pipes were shown being bolted in place but no torque wrench evident, was this edited out or were they not torqued?......

 

I suppose its possible that when designed in the early 1950s, torque settings were not set out in the workshop handbook for the locomotive and that the rule of thumb was "as tight as possible"*.  Nowadays there must be good practice torque settings in use, but it was edited out to compress the shot.

 

1 hour ago, Jeff Smith said:

Also, the re-soldered pipe which was so hard to remove and re-install I hope would have been pressure tested first!.

 

To my untutored eye, that looked more like brazing than soldering!  Again, large sections of workshop action probably ended up being cut to make room for the catering staff to complain that a customer didn't want cream or jam on their scone.

 

* Or you bolt it up reasonably tightly, then build up some steam pressure and go around tightening joints untill the escape stops...

[Coppercap]

57 minutes ago, Hroth said:

Back to the YSR...

 

I'm not against the programme, and there's no point in getting wound up about the manufactured "tension".  If there's nothing else on its just nice to see steam engines chuntering around!  BIG steam engines, PROPER steam engines, even if painted in a gaudy blue...

 

It was wearing a blue disguise in the hope nobody would notice the embarrassment it was suffering from having a squat chimney, squat safety valve and cut down cab. Currently those features are being corrected in deepest Oxfordshire...and green paint will return one day...

[rab]

12 hours ago, bgman said:

Sorry chap I didn't quote you and if you took it to be so then I'm sorry !

No problem, it was just a general response.

The written word can so easily be misinterpreted.

[rob D2]

That’s not enough train fans to make viewing figures work just for them.

 

Joe public doesn’t give a toss if it has a double chimney or one nicked off a house and a Thomas face !

 

They have to inject false jeopardy to make it appeal to the wider audience otherwise a few trains just run up and down to a timetable and that’s it ( same reason I don’t model heritage railways ).

 

all in all though, I think I’d quite like to go and see it so the programme works on that level alone !

[melmerby]

9 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

To my untutored eye, that looked more like brazing than soldering!  Again, large sections of workshop action probably ended up being cut to make room for the catering staff to complain that a customer didn't want cream or jam on their scone.

 

Apart from the temperature isn't the process fundamentally the same?

Instead of soft low melt metal being used for the "join" it's hard high melt metal.

In both you heat the joint until the joining metal runs in and forms a wetted joint with the host metal at it's surface.

Silver soldering is the same process.

[Jeff Smith]

36 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Apart from the temperature isn't the process fundamentally the same?

Instead of soft low melt metal being used for the "join" it's hard high melt metal.

In both you heat the joint until the joining metal runs in and forms a wetted joint with the host metal at it's surface.

Silver soldering is the same process.

Going right back to workshop practice (along time ago) I believe you would silver solder a brass or copper pipe.  Brazing would be in danger of melting the pipe itself - it would become welding.....

 

I wonder how the individuals in these false drama sequences feel about maybe being shown in bad light.  The work associated with getting the 9F running tended to depict a rather amateurish approach but I'm sure safety regulations regarding pressure vessels and high pressure steam were observed, at least I hope so!

[Martin Shaw]

Jeff

Not amateurish at all, the process shown on the telly is the same at most, if not all heritage steam railways. The generally accepted way of fixing a steam leak on a pipe union is exactly how I do it, identify the hole, disassemble if necessary and fix it. Now the process shown is what I would call brazing, and it's nowhere near the melting point of copper, however I would fully respect that in the US workshop practices have different names which are largely accepted local terminology.

As for pressure testing, what would be the difference between setting up a test rig or refitting the part to the engine, you might for a significant repair to a large component, eg a superheater element do a hydraulic, but for a repair as seen not necessary.

I note you said earlier an involvement in the aerospace industry which has in the 100 or so years of existence developed a highly organised safety culture which is a model of how to do things, and quite rightly so, failure usually results in loss of life, however risk assessment is also necessary and whilst pressure vessels and steam are potentially dangerous, nothing I saw on the telly was outwith accepted practice or amateurish.

Regards

Martin

Edited March 1, 2020 by Martin Shaw
grammar

[Jeff Smith]

Martin,and

 

I am in fact a brit and did an apprenticeship with Rolls-Royce, aero engines that is not cars.  I understand all you say and am interested in the insight.  Brazing and silver brazing (soldering) is a world of it's own!

 

Pressure testing in fuel and hydraulic systems which I was involved in was usually testing to a proof pressure somewhat higher than the operating pressure in order to reveal and weakness which may not be apparent on initial fitting and running but which may develop later in service.  However, as you say there is less likelihood of injury or loss of life with a steam locomotive, although a fractured steam pipe in the cab is not desirable.

[Din]

Well I've just spent a chunk of the morning catching up because I had forgotten it'd been moved to Friday Night Prime Time!

 

Good series as always, well aimed at the general public. 

[melmerby]

I assume that all the pipework in/on the 9F was manufactured from scratch using other 9Fs as a template as it was stated earlier that it had been stripped of non ferrous metals before it was "rescued".

I was more concerned with that union on the outside LH where there appeared to be a leak caused by a pinhole in the casting.

That could indicated a fundamental flaw where the metal hadn't  been cast at the right temperature (allowing air pockets) or was of an inferior mix. There could be other non seen areas where the metal wasn't as solid as it should be.

[caradoc]

Although the programmes are clearly not aimed at 'us' I still enjoyed them, and one thing the last epsiode showed was the huge amount of blood, sweat and tears (not to mention cash !) required to restore a steam loco. 92134 is a credit to all involved.

[Martin Shaw]

Keith

In practice pipework is usually bent to suit the components to be joined on site rather than following an existing locomotive purely because the (template) might be geographically distant. Fill up your pipe with dry sand, heat and bend, braze on unions and fit to loco, it is much easier to write about than do it.

Pin holes in castings do happen but they mostly appear at the machining stage and if the casting can't be satisfactorily plugged then we would scrap it and get another.

Regards

Martin