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Odd Border Crossings in Europe?


trisonic
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This may well be stupid question!

The last time I was on a trans - europe train was about 1962 when I travelled from London to Innsbruck on a school trip - all I remember was the beautiful Andre Chapelon Pacific hauling us from Calais and then stopping at Basle where I got interviewed by a "bevy" of the English press corps (it's a long story).

 

So what happens at borders where trains run on the left in one country but then on the right in the next country?????

 

My other excuse is that I live in the USA.........

 

Best, Pete.

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In most cases the change in railway adminstration isn't on the border itself, but the nearest major station to the border.

 

Only times I've done this was at Basel. Going from Switzerland (Left-hand running) to Germany (Right hand running) the train reverses at Basel, so it's fairly straightforward.

 

Going the other way was wierd, partly because of the voltage difference. It's right hand running on the French side because that part of eastern France was German territory at the time the railways were built. The train arrives from France and terminates in a bay platform. The a dual voltage shunter couples on to the back, and shunts the through coaches (with passengers on board) into another platform where a Swiss loco is waiting.

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Guest dilbert

So what happens at borders where trains run on the left in one country but then on the right in the next country?????

 

My other excuse is that I live in the USA.........

 

Best, Pete.

 

I'm sure there maybe some "technical" manouevres, but this is not necessarily linked to right or left side running (France and Switzerland follow UK practice in driving on the left, at least railway-wise).

 

The only border related stops I've come across (and I'm sure there are probably others) are :

 

France-Spain - re-gauging of coaching stock (Paris-Barcelona) - the TGV link will change this.

 

Austria-Hungary : this was in the days of the Soviet communist rule, and there was an enforced stop at the border on the Vienna-Budapest route. Passport control was preceded by somebody passing thru the carriages with a torch and examining underneath the bench seats. When asked what he was looking for, the reply was "spies"...dilbert

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From what I know, the situation at the Belgian/Dutch border is such that the Belgian OHLE continues up till just south of Roosendaal, which is the first major station on the Dutch side of the border, and trains switch to the right-hand track at Roosendaal itself. Normal Belgian electrics can actually proceed to Roosendaal, but with reduced power, as Belgium uses 3 kV DC and the Netherlands have 1.5 kV DC. Of course, multisystem engines make this a lot easier.

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The Belgian/German border at Aachen is quite interesting.

 

When the line was electrified (c.1965 I think) a flyover crossover was built in the vicinity of the border itself so trains can changeover from left hand (Belgian) to right hand (German) running at line speed and without interfering with the oposite direction.

 

Although the 'change of administration's operating rules' sign is more or less at the border (and the signalling also changes at the border) the line for the next few kilometres on into Aachen is electrified as SNCB voltage. A number of platforms in Aachen are equipped as what is know in French as 'un gare commutable' - in other words the voltage to the ohle can be changed from one system to another for a particular line or groups of lines. Thus atrain can be worked in by an SNCB loco running on SNCGB voltage (3,000vdc) and can leave hauled by a DB loco running 1.5kvac (I think that's the DB voltage without checking - might not be right at this time of night :blink: ).

 

So that's one way of doing it.

 

Another way can be found on the French/Belgian border north east of Lille (alas I can't recall the mname of the place offhand) - this isalso un gare commutable but the normal method seems to be to leave the through lines set to neutral. Trains simply run through at speed and lower the pan for one system just before they leave it then raise the pan for the other (in some cases it is the same pan used for both) once they have passed clear of the neutral section - quite good fun to watch a train passing at =70mph or faster doing that, could be quite spectacular at night I would think.

 

This latter method is also used at places where voltage/electrification systems change on the LGV lines and on the Channel Tunnel route - the cab signalling systems being reconfigured by the turning of a switch at the same time.

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The Aachen situation is changing as a new tunnel has had to be built at the border, coupled with the introduction of TGVs and ICE units over the new high speed line.

 

However, I can remember the original situation.

 

The flyover was on the Belgian side of the tunnel, but if you did not know it was there, it was far from obvious.

 

However, the operation of heavy night-time trains west of Aachen into Belgium carries yet another twist! Between Aachen Hbf. and the tunnel is a steep climb of about a couple of kilometres.

The SNCB electric that had just dropped onto the front of the train could not cope with anything up to 18 coaches from a standing start, so a banker is needed. I remember these as being Class 215s.

The summit lies just on the Greman side of the border, so the diesel drops off the back on its own territory before running light engine back to Aachen Hbf.

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Another interesting changeover is at Chiasso in southern Switzerland. Northbound trains from the Italian direction (3000V DC) roll into the station with the pans down and come to a halt. A small Swiss electric shunter (15000V AC) collects the Italian engine and pushes it back across the border at the changeover point. Then the Swiss engine comes on..etc.. I haven't observed how it works in the southbound direction. I would imagine that there would be a short length of switchable OHLE.

 

Map here

 

Typical shunter here

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Pete

 

A lot less interesting than the other detailed replies you've had to date, but border crossings in the passport sense hardly exist in Europe now. I live in France, but when I drive into Begium, or Germany, or Luxembourg - each of which is still a sovereign state in its own right - I only know I've arrived there because ther MAY have been a sign by the road! Minor roads lack even those, so it is only roadside "furniture", names and general signs that tell you you've crossed over! I believe this is in some contrast to the US borders with e.g. Canada, where friends have indicated delays can be long and tedious, and officials can get decidedly "funny".

 

Oh, yes, there is one crossing that is still regimented in Europe - getting back into Britain, where I was born, still takes a check with passport and steely stare from an official at the Eurostar terminal in Paris! The UK has not signed up to the "no passport" agreement common to many other EU states, so naturally the states that it borders with via the Channel take a similar view of Brits entering their land, too!

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Ian,

Yeah, I know - I did have a very interesting experience crossing from France to Belgium in Lille where I was virtually strip searched in the poring rain and all my stuff heaved out onto the pavement by over-zealous Belgium Customs men.

A. I'm a musician. B. Someone wrote "Drugs" on the cooler in the trunk of my car. C. The border was slap bang in the middle of what looked like a regular high street - no indications I could see that it was an actual border. D. This was 1974 (I think).

 

 

Oh, I'm English too! I must tell you about my experiences in South America one day!

 

No - I'm not looking for funny border stories but rather where one country "drives" on the left and the next on the right or vice versa - how is it handled?

 

Best, Pete.

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A number of platforms in Aachen are equipped as what is know in French as 'un gare commutable' - in other words the voltage to the ohle can be changed from one system to another for a particular line or groups of lines. Thus atrain can be worked in by an SNCB loco running on SNCGB voltage (3,000vdc) and can leave hauled by a DB loco running 1.5kvac (I think that's the DB voltage without checking - might not be right at this time of night :blink: ).

 

It's 15 kV AC, if I may correct you on this count. I also remember the old crossing outside Aachen from a trip to Brussels I did some years ago.

 

 

Another interesting changeover is at Chiasso in southern Switzerland. Northbound trains from the Italian direction (3000V DC) roll into the station with the pans down and come to a halt. A small Swiss electric shunter (15000V AC) collects the Italian engine and pushes it back across the border at the changeover point. Then the Swiss engine comes on..etc.. I haven't observed how it works in the southbound direction. I would imagine that there would be a short length of switchable OHLE.

 

Map here

 

Typical shunter here

 

I believe it's the same in reverse order for Swiss trains crossing into Italy, except for those engines which are fitted for both 15 kV AC and 3 kV DC, obviously. However, the SBB also have quadruple voltage shunters, these being the Ee 934 class.

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I believe it's the same in reverse order for Swiss trains crossing into Italy, except for those engines which are fitted for both 15 kV AC and 3 kV DC, obviously. However, the SBB also have quadruple voltage shunters, these being the Ee 934 class.

 

 

Chiasso sounds like an interesting place to model. Big Old Loop too.

Hang on, Swiss trains run on the left and Italian on the right so there must be some kind of switchover regardless of AC/DC?

 

Best, Pete.

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On the diesel line from Paris to Mulhouse there was a fly over (the last time that I travelled the line) that changed the running from left to right as mentioned above the border parts of France are different to other parts.

 

Many years ago I drove along one dead straight road that crossed the French/Belgium border countless times and at times it was difficult to tell where you were.

 

With there being more and more through trains using units (TGV etc) as a passenger you do not know about the change in supply, they used to do the change from 25kVac OHLE to 750Vdc 3rd rail next to the Channel Terminal in UK on the move. Now no more as you go on HS1.

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Hang on, Swiss trains run on the left and Italian on the right so there must be some kind of switchover regardless of AC/DC?

 

No, Switzerland and Italy both run on the left - I was only referring to the voltage change in this example. Austria and Italy, however, are a different story - well, more or less. While the Brenner Railway, which is the main artery between the two countries, is normally operated on the right-hand side nowadays, the majority of the Austrian mainlines is equipped for full bidirectional running, meaning trains may equally well run on the left or right as any situation might require.

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The border at Brenner (Brennero in Italian) lies across the middle of the station. Therefore to change running lines from the Austrian side to the Italian side would simply require the correct setting of the points at either end of the station. No fancy flyovers etc. needed here.

 

In the days before open access working, there was almost always a loco change here anyway from the 15kV a.c. of the Austrian Railways to the 3kV d.c. of the Italian Railways. Apart from the 5 units of the Austrian Class 1822, there were simply no multi-voltage electrics used on the route.

 

A similar situation to that listed above with a shunter removing the electric and pushing back to its home territory was used. Sometimes, the new train loco would perform the task, and I have regularly seen the removed electric fly-shunted back to its home territory with the pantograph down!

 

These days, multi-voltage electrics regularly work straight through for many of the open access operators.

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Dobova , which is the border station between Slovenia and Croatia is another station with a voltage divide , Slovenia using Italian style 3000v DC , and Croatia using 25Kv AC.

 

There is a dead section of overhead in the middle of the station and trains lower the pantograph and coast to a halt in the platform. The inbound locomotive is then shunted off the train and fly-shunted (ie given a massive shove and left to roll) back under the correct voltage wires.

 

Nowadays , they also use multi-voltage Taurus locomotives to reduce station time and the need for loco changes.

 

A similar thing takes place at Spielfeld Strass (border between Slovenia and Austria) ; as an aside , at Villa Opicina (border between Slovenia and Italy) , there is a "gap" in the overheads of some 500m or so just outside the station , even though the voltage is the same . The reason for this is that the Italians accused the Slovenes of "stealing" their electricity , so the section of wire was physically removed to prevent this - trains must power up leaving the station and then coast through the gap.

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Another interesting changeover is at Chiasso in southern Switzerland. Northbound trains from the Italian direction (3000V DC) roll into the station with the pans down and come to a halt. A small Swiss electric shunter (15000V AC) collects the Italian engine and pushes it back across the border at the changeover point. Then the Swiss engine comes on..etc.. I haven't observed how it works in the southbound direction. I would imagine that there would be a short length of switchable OHLE

 

Last time I visited Chiasso they were using switchable catenery for southbound trains, but handled northbound trains in the way you described. Think a different method for the two directions is definitely unusual.

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as an aside , at Villa Opicina (border between Slovenia and Italy) , there is a "gap" in the overheads of some 500m or so just outside the station , even though the voltage is the same . The reason for this is that the Italians accused the Slovenes of "stealing" their electricity , so the section of wire was physically removed to prevent this - trains must power up leaving the station and then coast through the gap.

 

 

Whew - thanks for this bit of information, had not known this before :blink: .

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Another interesting one is on the Cote D'Azur line between France and Italy where the line from Marseille to Nice carries on via Monaco to Ventigmilia in Italy. Marseille is electrified at 1500V DC but going East just after the main loco depot the line changes to 25KVAC and on sunny days you can see the shadows of the pantographs dropping and rising as the train coasts through the neutral section.

 

I was interested as to what happenned at Ventigmilia as Italian Railways are at 3000V DC. Apparently there is a change point from 25KV Ac to 1500 DC just West of the station, but not at the actual border. The whole station area is electrified at 1500V DC and the Italian locos run on reduced power. They then change to the full 3000V just east of the station beyond the carriage sidings. There is no problem with the French stock as it is all 25Kv/1500V dual voltage for working east of Marseille.

 

Jamie

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Hi Pete,

Another location where there is a difference in voltages is Germany/Denmark! I cannot say if there is also a changeover from left to right handed running (or vice versa!) but it certainly used to be an interesting location at Padborg - just on the Danish side of the broder.

Before Danish electrification, an electric hauled German freight would come into the station and as at other location above, the DB loco would run around and either collect another train or depart light engine/wait for a train. Then a Danish diesel loco would come onto the train and set off into Scandinavia!

Later, after the Danes electrified at 25Kv - i believe the situation had to make use of switchable overhead power, but now they simply use multi voltage locos to run through.

I have to admit, i've not actually experienced this for myself, only through watching various videos, so i hope i'm not too far off track but it sure is an interesting location!

Cheers,

John E.

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Another location where there is a difference in voltages is Germany/Denmark! I cannot say if there is also a changeover from left to right handed running (or vice versa!) but it certainly used to be an interesting location at Padborg - just on the Danish side of the broder.

 

No, Denmark and Germany both have right hand running. Sweden, however, runs on the left, so in addition to the voltage change (back to 15 kV from 25 kV) there also is a running side changeover.

 

As we're at it - was there not some issue with overhead wires being fed with both AC and DC in turn (such as in border stations with switchable OHLE), resulting in what I believe is called pre-magnetization, which influences power transmission in some adverse way?

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Another curious crossing is the one between Cerbere (France) and Port Bou (Spain). Here, there are the following complications:-

Different track gauge on the two sides.

Different voltages on the OCS.

The legacy of Franco's Draconian regime.

To deal with the first- trains may have their gauge changed whilst still moving (the Talgo); they may have the axles/bogies changed at one of several points within the border complex; or they may have their loads transhipped- something which is relatively easy with containers, but which had to be done box-by-box in the days of the citrus fruit traffic. At one time, several thousand local women would be engaged on the transhipment of the seasonal fruit traffic.

The situation of the different voltages is relatively easily dealt with, in that the Spanish locos run on reduced power on 1500v catenary.

Franco's emphasis on strict border controls leaves a legacy to this day. The southbound local passenger trains are run by SNCF, the northbound ones by RENFE. Both return empty, so that the Gardia Civile could control access and egress, and this situation continued well into the 1990s (and probably still does). The SNCF trains shuttle back and fore on the eastern tunnel, and the RENFE ones on the western one.

All this activity takes place on a relatively narrow ledge hewn out of the rock- the various freight transhipment activities take place in constricted yards in side valleys, which mean that trains like the Stobart one have to be split to fit the sidings.

I haven't had a chance to visit Hendaye on the western coast, or the (currently moribund) site at La Tour-de-Carol, so can't comment on them. The latter had absolutely huge station buildings to accomodate the queues of people filing through frontier controls in the Pyrennean winters.

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A tale told by a friend, a retired DB driver who used to work the cross-border stuff from Bw Koeln Deutz, a goods train arrived at Aachen. DB loco goes off, DB shunter goes on the back of the train to assist it out of the station as described above. DB banker gets the right away, starts shoving, thinking the Belgian isn't doing much. It's only when the train's over the top and the banker drops back that someone realises the Belgian loco was still in the yard at Aachen, and what they had was a rather heavy freight train with no loco.

 

It apparently came to a stand several km down the line, having see-sawed in a dip!

 

At Venlo, the DB would run in with pan down as the station was NS 1500v DC, and a shunter would move the DB lok to sidings, then onto the train. The departure platform towards Germany was at 16kv AC.

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