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O gauge tin track, solder or glue?


Porkscratching
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I'm wondering if I can get away with using super glue type stuff to re secure track to s!eepers on Hornby tin track..?  Obviously soldering is more kosher but in the case of points it'd be so much easier just to run a bit of superglue under the rail. Disassembly of the points to get under rails and make everything "clean enough to solder" would be a pain.

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Well it seems soldering is beyond my capabilities, it won't stick and I've just made a mess, (pity I wasted my money on a new soldering iron too!)

I'll have to do the super glue version assuming I can remove the greasy flux residue, I assume petrol would shift that?

..other than that it's hammer and chisel to attempt re crimping the "chairs" to rails..

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Alcohol (meths) should remove the flux. Acid flux (phosphoric acid) is really needed for soldering iron/tinplate. The surfaces need to be really clean however for the solder to 'stick' and 0 gauge track is going to need a big iron to get enough heat. If the solder doesn't run at once it's not hot enough.

 

My track record with all types of 'Superglue' is failure of the joint after a (usually short) time. I would use proper 'Araldite' (not the 5 minute stuff - more poor track record) and preferably cure it in the oven at low heat (when SWMBO is not around...).

 

I would add the above is what I would do, as it is not something I have ever done.

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Thanks for that Mr G , I assume it wasn't clean and shiny enough to take, ironically it's had other soldering in a couple of places that someone else has succeeded with.

The iron I got was a 100w thing so thought might be ok, really a flame would be better, I've soldered copper pipe with a torch ok.

I'll clean it off as you suggest, I have meths, and try the other method.

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The components involved in tinplate track are fairly large, and good at dissipating heat, so you will probably need a big iron, or possibly better, a modest gas torch.

 

If you join Classic 0 Gauge Forum, you will encounter people who restore old tin track “in their sleep”, usually truly antique stuff, and will provide good advice.

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 I too have thought about getting a mini blowtorch type thing, that creates a pencil like flame, but not really found anything that seems to be suitable.?

Pity you can't just arc weld it!!  :o..I've done that successfully on the real railway ( wagons tho not track) 

I'll look at the O gauge forum again too..( is that the one called the tinplate community btw or a different one ? )

 

Edited by Porkscratching
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Link to the primarily UK/EU/Aus forum.

 

http://www.classicogauge.net/forum/search.php?search_id=active_topics

 

You may have found the primarily US one.

 

Tinplaters seem to align to either a German Tradition (which includes Hornby, given its roots as a replacement for German products in the UK market) or a Lionel tradition. The two do meet and crossover, but there are definitely two centres of gravity.

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Aldi recently had a pencil type gas soldering iron which beyond soldering comes in handy for all manner of things, personally I would go with Griffs suggestion the only thing I would add is degrease the surface and then roughen it to provide a good key for the Araldite. You don’t have to go overboard Araldite is a superb adhesive.

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De greasing it seems a bit problematic I've tried meths but still looks greasy where I put flux paste on!

I'll decant a bit of petrol from the motor later and try that.

Just looking at those mini torches, they're on eBay from about 2 quid so at that price I'll probably grab one anyway, as you say handy for many other things too.

I've used araldite (with wood ) years ago and it was ok, again no doubt all down to getting the surfaces clean, which seems the main bugbear with all this, especially with a fiddly shape component.

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Araldite and similar glues work best when they ‘key’ into the surface, so are often no good on even super-clean smooth surfaces - they are good on wood because they get down into the grain.

 

Tinplate is usually the easiest thing in the world to solder, because it is pre-tinned. If the bits you have are back to bare steel, try tinning them first (that’ll tell you if they are clean-enough for one thing, because they won’t ‘wet’ if not) then bring them together, reheat to wet, and go in with a dab more solder.

Edited by Nearholmer
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Obviously I'd rather solder as it's the proper way to do it, the prob being this part has odd shapes / crevices and not easy to disassemble in order to clean up first !

Just sleepers would be ok but this is the 'box' with the workings of the points, the operating rod is permanently squashed in place and not much to work with !

The box unit is loose on the rails ( at least I got all the blobs of failed solder off!)

_20200217_113310.JPG

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I don’t do a lot of soldering but I’ve never had a problem with the stuff that has a flux in it I will have to dig it out to put a name to it, looks like wire and comes in a tube all coiled up, cracking stuff.

sticking with Araldite (sorry) here’s a couple of pictures of it used to refit Hornby buffers, excess can be removed with a knife if required but personally I prefer the excess in place to provide a better anchor. On the underside it’s out of sight anyway.

C501CAAF-9785-4AF3-90E7-D06C3BFDF672.jpeg

333FB288-5BAE-4EE9-82DA-B93D382B77BC.jpeg

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“the stuff that has a flux in it I will have to dig it out to put a name to it, looks like wire and comes in a tube all coiled up”

 

Yes, it works fine for tin. Ideally, old stuff with actual lead in it, but that’s only for people with long-held junk stashes!

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The coil of flux cored I've got was from Woolworths so probably fairly old, 1990s at the latest, i also have a big roll of plumber's solder that I'm fairly sure is lead based, I've used that on copper pipe no prob

...the solder that failed was a bit of 145° melt stuff for 'modelmaking' from Eileen's emp. fairly recent so who knows it's content, likely no lead?.. the liquid flux was from there too.

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Whilst it might seem I am singing the praises of Araldite I only mean to point out it has its virtues, one of these is it will grip to an imperfect surface better than a bright polished one (when used with metal)  surfaces pitted by rust and even perforated can be fixed together with a vice like grip. In the past I’ve used a punch to provide a key and even drilling small holes so the adhesive can flow both through and into and around the joint being formed. That has the added bonus of sealing any remaining rust in an air and watertight covering. You can tell I am a fan.

soldering undoubtably would be the ideal choice but it has its limitations especially on less than perfect surfaces, abrasion is normally required on anything less than perfect and a Dremel type tool is indispensable for this. To sum up in my book it’s horses for courses whatever works for you is the way to go.

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Interesting you mention ‘vice like grip’ in that that is the best way to use araldite.

 

I learned more than I ever wanted to know about using these ‘glues’ through my work a few years back, and it seems that they slightly contract as they set (slightly expand first, IIRC, so they are best used to created a ‘hoop stress’ or a clamping action, such as when you drill holes in things and let the glue squeeze through to form what amount to rivets.

 

Also, they are hugely sensitive to contamination on smooth surfaces - which they sit on top of. This caused the first few versions of what I was designing to fail miserably due to mould-release agent persisting, even after extensive cleaning! Got it right in the end, by designing ‘keying ridges’ into the object.

Edited by Nearholmer
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I'm certainly not ruling out araldite, I've only got some of the rapid version at the mo, so I must obtain a couple of tubes of the real stuff to have in stock.. I will await getting the little gas torch and have an experiment with some scrap then take a view..

it's not going to be a highly 'trafficked' part anyway and will probably just be used for sidings or something, tho I do have about 3 other sets of points that also need bits fixing.

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Araldite comes in two tubes!  (Sorry!)

 

Low melt solder is not really suitable for jobs like this, being really intended for assembling white metal kits etc.

 

In my youth, I was told Fluxite was no use for anything. I can remember my first attempts at soldering with a gas iron a a paste solder  (it may even have been Fluxite - both were 'borrowed' from Dad!)  met with complete failure. It wasn't until I bought an electric iron and cored solder that I learnt the  mystic art.

Edited by Il Grifone
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Yes i should have said get a 'pair' of tubes !   The rapid version I've had success doing odd bits involving glass for the Mrs, but will grab some if the original anyway asap.

I didn't think the melt point would matter too much but I do have some higher melt stuff 188° or something

Again that's from Eileen's not that long ago so not sure about the lead content, there's also my o!d plumber's solder, that i also have a pot of flux for, that's called LA CO regular soldering paste, American clearly, I've used that on copper pipe with no prob in the past, tho I get the impression that soldering tin plate is different to copper work??  

I'll await the little gas torch then perhaps give it another go before going araldite !

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