Jump to content
 

help with health advice?


Recommended Posts

Hi all, well, as the title suggests this post is all qbout health questions.

 

The road back to modeling is progressing well, as soon as the flow of equipment and kits/rtr stock has slowed to a dribble, I will start the actuall work....tadaaa....So, I have really bad lungs due to miss spent youth and long term employment around that fibre glass stuff they fireproof steel doors with. Surfice to say it does not take much to set me off...So LOTS of soldering and brazing and glueing and fettling and more glueing followed by spray painting and all manner of toxic products abound..

 

In short, does anyone have the same problems if so how do they cope? Or, maybe folks have recommendations on safe practises plus safer- safer products...cheers mateys.....can't wait to get out the japanese fan saw and start carving up triang...haha

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the best advice is to work in a well ventilated space, and really try to avoid inhaling solder fumes!

 

Spraying - very well ventilated space. An airbrush fed by a compressor uses air rather than propellant, so should be less harmful too, and if you're easily set off probably best stick to acrylic rather than enamel paints.

 

It might be worth getting some of those masks everyone seems to be wearing at the moment - they're apparently no use at all against Coronavirus, but much better with plastic dust and paint fumes I reckon! 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Hi Midlands

 

I don't have chronic pulmonary problems but I do use potential lung irritant substances like solvents , solder and fluxes.

 

Cromwell Tools UK have all the right quality `half` face masks for this kind of hobby work.

 

I don't know your particular health circumstances, but if you suffer breathlessness on exertion, then a face mask might  increase the `feeling` of breathlessness in a person with long term lung damage.

 

This `feeling` isn't dangerous but you might consider purchasing (if you hav`nt alredy got one) a free standing `fan` to move the air around your hobby working environment , particularly in hot weather days as  the use of a close proximity fan is as good as an oxygen cylinder ( not that you need one) for mild to moderate shortness of breath.

 

Of course, if you smoke...……… STOP.

 

Regards

john

40 years  railway modelling....  40 years Clinical Nurse Specialist   (retired)

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Prevention is always best. For your scale of problem I would build a fume cupboard on the work bench, which can be done economically now on the basis of an over hob extractor, especially if you can scrounge an unsaleable dented one from your local recycling facility. The difficult piece is the moveable (ideally rising) front window to provide a gap only large enough for access for hands when working: this so that the airflow is always out of the general workspace and away up the extractor flue. That will be your design challenge...

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Prevention is always best. For your scale of problem I would build a fume cupboard on the work bench, which can be done economically now on the basis of an over hob extractor, especially if you can scrounge an unsaleable dented one from your local recycling facility. The difficult piece is the moveable (ideally rising) front window to provide a gap only large enough for access for hands when working: this so that the airflow is always out of the general workspace and away up the extractor flue. That will be your design challenge...

Even without the full fume cupboard enclosure, an extractor discharging to somewhere well away from anywhere you are would be a good idea. Anything that keeps air flowing across the work area and away from you would help. 

 

Depending on how badly you're affected by stuff, and how well you're able to adapt to a half face respirator, the next step up would be a full face mask/hood with a large, remote filter on the end of a hose. Good ones, with fan assist, offer rather less restriction than the half face jobs, and, IMHO, are a bit pleasanter to wear, but they tend towards the expensive as they're generally full blown industrial gear rather than hobby stuff. I can't remember what mine cost, but I'm pretty sure it was north of $500 a decade ago, bought for a one off job. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I do have similar problems, I have a interstitial lung disease, I use a good quality face mask when spraying and soldering and always try to do it within range of an open door so I try to keep that part of the hobby for the summer months.

 

Lots of different fumes and smells can set me off, but you learn what does and take appropriate action such as only using acrylic paints, fans on when soldering etc.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

This kind of thing may help when soldering; plus a spray booth when spraying:

 

https://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d00374/fume-absorber-bench-top-esd/dp/SD01238?mckv=swUEBtXAw_dc|pcrid|224654335881|kword||match||plid||slid||product|SD01238|pgrid|50784539401|ptaid|pla-813186345502|&CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-SHOPPING&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-LuikJXR5wIVS7DtCh0unAz5EAQYBCABEgKk7_D_BwE

Link to post
Share on other sites

hi all, wow, thanks for all the advice!

 

Some realy good idea's there. I accept 34's challenge of building a fume cuboard...I feel sure there is plastic fish tank in our garden disguised as summat else..hmmmm, fan extractor should be doable.   In the mean time a very good mask and working in well ventilated areas to start with. yes, all doable so far. I feel safer  already!

 How about glues?  are there any you would advise me not to use? I know some glues have pretty toxic effects if not handled correctly.

 

Thanks guys, I have some organising to do thanks to all your helpfull tips and knowledge.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
5 hours ago, Barclay said:

 

 

It might be worth getting some of those masks everyone seems to be wearing at the moment - they're apparently no use at all against Coronavirus, but much better with plastic dust and paint fumes I reckon! 

 

Sorry but this is poor advice.  One reason they don't work against Coronavirus is because they are useless against aerosols (as in droplets from coughs and sneezes).  Guess what those paint thingies produce...…  They might work against plastic dust however.

 

You can get aerosol masks and they look like something out of Porton Down with replaceable cartridges which trap the aerosol particles.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a form of asthma and regards glues I use non solvent types and find UHU good for card and plastics but the best I find are the PVA based ones. I use canopy glue for a lot of plastic especially clear glazing as it seems to odour free and does not make my skin itchy which mek and liquidpoly does. For soldering I have an old computer cooling fan that I have placed behind to one side blowing air past me, I use it connected to an old H&M controller and adjust the speed to clear the fumes but not create a draft. If you do make a fume cupboard several of these fans mounted in the back would be a cheap solution for the extraction, also a sheet of polycarbonate used for secondary glazing would make a safe screen across the front.

 

hope this helps and good luck with your modelling

 

 mike 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Having come across a handwritten list my father made when he retired, of all the jobs he could remember working on over his working life, it saddens me that his expertise and experience of designing air extraction systems are lost to the modelling community, through his Alzheimer's/dementia. As the designer of fume extraction systems for academic and industrial laboratories, hospitals, morgues, paint manufacturers, oil refineries, MOD and suchlike, I am certain he could have designed an excellent hobbyist fume cabinet, as his understanding of air and gas flows, fan properties and air volumes would have made such an undertaking a simple task.

 

One thing I remember him once getting quite angry about was when he was talking about the wrong specification of fan being installed in some fume cabinets he had designed: when in use, the air flow was not quick enough through the fans and the chemical fumes had time to react with the fans themselves, effectively melting them! Fortunately his drawings - all signed off by the client - proved his design was correct, and the error was traced to a subcontractor changing the spec simply because the fan specificied was out of stock and there would be a delay to get the right ones!

 

It was the only time I ever saw him "precious" about his work - he was quietly proud of what he did as a draughtsman/designer, but unassuming. The "lads on the shop floor" had great respect for him, because having initially trained as an apprentice engineer he naturally understood where there might be fabrication difficulties and either avoided them or had a practical solution he could explain and, if need be, demonstrate.  "The lads" were mostly Ukranian he worked with - their respect for him was evident as he was the only member of "office staff" ever invited along to their annual Christmas party!

 

I suppose the point I am trying to make is that in knocking up a fume extraction cabinet you have to ensure that the fan extraction used actually removes the fumes properly, as otherwise you will simply be concentrating the fumes in the hood, and when removing the item you are working upon you may accidentally expose yourself to a heavier and therefore potentially more harmful "dose" of airborne chemicals/irritants.

 

Having said all that, I hope you are able to comfortably model and get the pleasure from the hobby that everyone on this forum enjoys.

 

Steve S

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Many years ago I knew a guy who became very reactive to solder fumes, he was in his low twenties.  It ruined his RAF career as an electronics technician because he couldn't work in his trade. 

 

Today all our solder stations at work, are fitted with air extractors that look like a Hoover nozzle you point at the in work item that goes into a box.  Its not high speed extraction as it would cool the joint to fast, but it does remove the fumes. Ouch the price is £500 + in that Farnell catalogue and there are dozens in the factory. 

When finished our "dirty" ( spraying,  grinding,  etc) work area of the shed will have an extractor to the outside world  fitted. 

 

I've just searched for suitable respirators, the ones we used at Barton gas works against hydrogen sulfide are over £25 each and only have a one month lifespan !! All respirators capable of neutralising fumes are expensive.  

 

It looks like removing the fumes are your best action, hopefully you are working in a shed because then you can make a permanent area as we are doing,  with something like a computer fan drawing air away from you, out through the shed wall.

If not, making a work box / spraying / soldering cabinet with a fan in the back,  exhausting through a tumble dryer air hose out through a window may be your only other choice. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Whenever I spray models with the airbrush or aerosols I always wear a proper paint sprayers respirator and safety glasses. With soldering I use a fume extractor with built in filters which are cheap to replace. You could rig up a fume extractor using an old vacuum cleaner with the exhaust pipe out of the window. I use a mini spray booth which has fans and filters which draw the fumes out through a pipe via an open window. As long as there is air movement to carry the fumes away from you, be it a fan or custom extractor, you should be ok. I tend to want to either neutralise the fumes or remove them directly from the house via a ventilation system rather than blow them elsewhere in the house where they could still pose a threat to me and my cat even if they have diluted by diffusion into the air. If you can smell them they are entering your nose and lungs.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

I use acrylics indoors and if I have to use a rattlecan, wait for a dry calm day, preferably after rain when the air has been cleaned of dust and airborne stuff, and do it on the patio (I know it’s a patio because it’s got patio doors).  This is not for any health reason, I just don’t like the smell of oil based paint or can gas and don’t want to burden others in the building with it. 
 

I have a set of goggles that I use with power tools, and a stack of cheapo face masks if I’m going to me making a dust, and try in general to be careful.  I’ve attempted to slice fingertips with craft knives on more than one occasion though.  I have learned not to use power and sharp tools when I’m tired or stressed, though; apart from the opportunities for removal of body parts without anaesthetics, you will only mess up the model and probably bleed all over it. 
 

Dried blood makes a good colour for rust, but I don’t recommend it.  All the same a true modeller will apply it judiciously while waiting for the ambulance...

 

  • Funny 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

hehe, right johnster, i've been thinking of he best way to rust up the rails.....haha.

 

Loads of brilliant suggestions as usuall guys...magic!. love the hoover extraction fan suggestion...the household dyson may find itself requisitioned. lol

 

when my work bench has been erected, for speedy resolution sake, thinking of buying a ready made cabinet, small, then rigging up my own version of fans and pipes to extract both soldering toxics and spraying/gluing ugh straight out the window.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
9 minutes ago, midlands said:

 

Loads of brilliant suggestions as usuall guys...magic!. love the hoover extraction fan suggestion...the household dyson may find itself requisitioned. lol

 

 

That'll open up another can of pollution worms - noise! Cant stand the racket SWMBO's Dyson makes - sent her a joke letter from the council telling her it infringed EU regs and she needed to take it to the tip....

  • Funny 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

 

That'll open up another can of pollution worms - noise! Cant stand the racket SWMBO's Dyson makes - sent her a joke letter from the council telling her it infringed EU regs and she needed to take it to the tip....

haha, quite....hmmmm, thinking about it your right about the noise....I mean vacuums are noisy beasts by nature, right! I'll try to source a quieter form of fan, I do have a few computer fans kicking about, not sure if they will have sufficient draw tho?

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

I tend to get cough triggered easily no known lung issues, probably GERD related according to doctors. I get set off by traffic fumes - often pretty new Diesels (newer than mine). Big difference with you is mine get the oxygen fine, just get irritated.

 

The cheap face masks are horrible, I only use them for power sanding and handling rockwool.

 

A few tips I have

 

Wet sand resin, with wet and dry.

My airbrush is used by the garage, I sit on a mat outside, just under the door, no real smells like this. I batch paint when dry and warm, last big batch was 6 coaches.

Soldering has never set me off but I like to keep patio door open, table is near it.

 

Worst case there is a biological air cleaning system - breathing through nose. Until I got my spraying sorted (I have now) I had on two occasions blue snot!

 

Never smoked but have been near alternate smokers many years ago.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Bear in mind that acrylic paints used through an airbrush will produce as many, by volume, paint particles as enamel paints used through an airbrush. You really don't want to breathe them in!

 

It is advisable to use some form of extraction mechanism to prevent particles and fumes from entering your lungs, as mentioned in most of the posts above, and the best way to do that (personal preference) as a modeller is to use a suitably rated spray booth. It can be used to protect from solder fumes as well as paint fumes and particles.

 

At home I use one of these:

 

https://benchvent.com/shop/bv300s-d-a3-extraction-unit/

 

For my workshops and demonstrations I use these:

 

https://benchvent.com/shop/bv200s-a2-re-circulatory-glue-booth/

 

A disadvantage of the latter is the ongoing cost of filters, but how much is your health worth?

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
On 14/02/2020 at 14:10, Andy Hayter said:

 

 

You can get aerosol masks and they look like something out of Porton Down with replaceable cartridges which trap the aerosol particles.  

 

I have a Draper Expert 13500 Twin Combi Filter Respirator which is excellent, even when using pungent, solvent based spray paint indoors.   Other makes are available, but I mention the brand and model which I have used so you can search it online and see what we’re on about!

 

Davey

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...