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9C85

CCT parcels vans... when did they finish?

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I am building a BR Blue/Sectorisation era carriage sidings layout.  Does anyone have any idea of when the CCT 4 wheeled vans finished in service? I remember seeing them, along with other 4 wheeled (wooden bodied) vans in the late 70s on parcels trains, but I suspect my layout era will be more suited to GUVs and BGS.  On that subject, when did the LMS 50ft GUV/BG finish? Ta

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If I remember correctly both types ended their days in revenue service by the mid 80's - you could have a couple sitting at the end of a siding though?

 

Quite a lot of the ex LMS BG's lost their gangway connections whilst painted all over blue, and some of those that retained the gangways were painted in blue/grey

 

Edited by Half-full

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IIRC, the BR Collection and Delivery Service Parcel Service was beginning to be run down in the late 1970s, and stopped altogether in early 1980. Such services that remained were station to station, using GUVs and BR Standard BGs; I think that these might have been services where BR had longer-term contracts. A  sad day for variety on BR; into the 1970s, you might see pre-Nationalisation stock (almost always in blue and grime livery) alongside BR Standard stock. There were lots of very different types; at various times, I saw S3S, a former Night Ferry luggage van, ex-works in BR Blue, at Swansea High Street, a GWR-designed 'Monster', also ex-works in Blue, at Llanelli, and innumerable other rare beasts. 

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4 wheel CCTs were definitely running on November 21 1983, I remember photographing a couple in Plymouth on the day I moved to Yorkshire.

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Careful folks. LMS and LNER CCTs finished during 1978, SR ones finished during 1984 and the BR ones finished during 1988.

 

LMS BGs (by that time classified as B as the gangways had been removed) finished during 1983.

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They finished with the abolition of the vacuum brake as well. 

 

the SR vans were a boon to heritage railways who found them a good source of underframes to cut down for 4-wheel coaches. the bodies usually wne tlineside for storage facilities.

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11 hours ago, Half-full said:

If I remember correctly both types ended their days in revenue service by the mid 80's - you could have a couple sitting at the end of a siding though?

 

A bit like this?

 

Thanks all for the really useful information.  I suspected that the dates would be around that time.  My main problem is that when I started the layout, I was determined to base it in the full BR blue era, with primarily Brush type 4s and Sulzer type 2s, so naturally the first loco I bought was a Dutch livery class 31... :-0   

The problem is that the loco has grown on me. It is 'only' TTS sound fitted, but it looks and sounds nice. I could always  get it resprayed and weathered to BR blue, or keep scouring the Internet for a replacement bodyshell, but either option will add around  £30 to the cost of the model, which would defeat the object of the purchase in the first place (a cheap 'test' loco, for trackwork, wiring and uncoupling functionality).

I have read several posts stating that 'it's your layout, so you can run what you like', and I am coming around more and more to this way of thinking.  I have missed out on several bargains because the loco had a 4 character headcode rather than dominos, and I couldn't have a 25 standing next to a Dutch 31.  So either the 'Goyle' goes, or I lighten up a bit. I look forward to your opinions... thanks again 

20200210_211107.jpg

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24 minutes ago, 9C85 said:

A bit like this?

 

Thanks all for the really useful information.  I suspected that the dates would be around that time.  My main problem is that when I started the layout, I was determined to base it in the full BR blue era, with primarily Brush type 4s and Sulzer type 2s, so naturally the first loco I bought was a Dutch livery class 31... :-0   

The problem is that the loco has grown on me. It is 'only' TTS sound fitted, but it looks and sounds nice. I could always  get it resprayed and weathered to BR blue, or keep scouring the Internet for a replacement bodyshell, but either option will add around  £30 to the cost of the model, which would defeat the object of the purchase in the first place (a cheap 'test' loco, for trackwork, wiring and uncoupling functionality).

I have read several posts stating that 'it's your layout, so you can run what you like', and I am coming around more and more to this way of thinking.  I have missed out on several bargains because the loco had a 4 character headcode rather than dominos, and I couldn't have a 25 standing next to a Dutch 31.  So either the 'Goyle' goes, or I lighten up a bit. I look forward to your opinions... thanks again 

Is your 31 the Railroad version?  If it is look on eBay for Lima 31 bodyshells, as the Railroad version is a warmed up Lima model - the Lima shell is more accurate as Hornby mixed up the moulds producing original bodysides with refurbished cab fronts on at least the BR Blue version.

 

You could pick up a Blue original condition 31 shell for 15 quid or so, or even less, and even a complete Lima loco for 30 quid (then resell the Lima chassis and Hornby body back on eBay)

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26 minutes ago, Half-full said:

Is your 31 the Railroad version?  If it is look on eBay for Lima 31 bodyshells, as the Railroad version is a warmed up Lima model - the Lima shell is more accurate as Hornby mixed up the moulds producing original bodysides with refurbished cab fronts on at least the BR Blue version.

 

You could pick up a Blue original condition 31 shell for 15 quid or so, or even less, and even a complete Lima loco for 30 quid (then resell the Lima chassis and Hornby body back on eBay)

Thanks.  It's a Hornby super detailed model. The really annoying thing is that the loco was originally a  br blue weathered version and the previous owner swapped the body for a Dutch livery when adding the sound.  I asked if he still had the original, but unfortunately not 

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15 hours ago, Flood said:

LMS BGs (by that time classified as B as the gangways had been removed) finished during 1983.

Thanks. That is useful to know as I have seen a few available for decent money, plus they have the advantage of being ' only' 50ft long, so will be less of a squeeze on the layout.  The more I think about it, the more I am tending towards an early 80s layout.  I think the days of my class 31 in its present guise are numbered 

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5 hours ago, 9C85 said:

Thanks.  It's a Hornby super detailed model. The really annoying thing is that the loco was originally a  br blue weathered version and the previous owner swapped the body for a Dutch livery when adding the sound.  I asked if he still had the original, but unfortunately not 

Might be worth contacting Hornby, as one of the ones they took back with Mazak rot might have a suitable body.

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To stretch the "CCT in a siding" theme, quite a few went into internal use with concurrent IU numbers (sometimes) and would have lasted quite a while longer.

 

Mike.

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3 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Might be worth contacting Hornby, as one of the ones they took back with Mazak rot might have a suitable body.

Email enquiry sent. Thanks 

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1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

To stretch the "CCT in a siding" theme, quite a few went into internal use with concurrent IU numbers (sometimes) and would have lasted quite a while longer.

 

Mike.

 

There were a CCT and a GUV in the north bays at Oxford long after they finished in traffic - were the sat there until the Bicester trains restarted?

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On 15/02/2020 at 19:26, Phil Bullock said:

 

There were a CCT and a GUV in the north bays at Oxford long after they finished in traffic - were the sat there until the Bicester trains restarted?


Yes, they were cut up on site to make way for the new Platforms 1 & 2.

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It’s your railway , run what you fancy.

i run BR blue and EWS, but also have a few I like from in the middle - ie a Dutch 37/47 and large logo47.

 

my theory is that the Dutch stuff came in 1991, so any loco from 85/86 running next to it is only 5 years adrift and I can live with that.

 

running a blue 31and an EWS 60 is too far a stretch for me 

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Now ebay is giving me a super cheap offer of a Gresley full brake in BR blue.  That would take the date back to 1977 or earlier, so 4-character headcodes could come into play , and after all, that's the era which got me interested in railways The dual/multi era layout is becoming more appealing 

Edited by 9C85

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29 minutes ago, 9C85 said:

Now ebay is giving me a super cheap offer of a Gresley full brake in BR blue.  That would take the date back to 1977 or earlier, so 4-character headcodes could come into play , and after all, that's the era which got me interested in railways The dual/multi era layout is becoming more appealing 

'Resistance is useless; resistance is useless'

1977 would probably be the latest that stuff like Gresley, Thompson and Hawkesworth full brake would be seen, along with SR bogie CCT vans, and LMS/LNER designed CCTs. David Larkin has done three volumes, with lots of photos, dedicated to BR NPCCS (Non-passenger carrying coaching stock). Well worth looking at for inspiration.

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6 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

'Resistance is useless; resistance is useless'

Come to think about it, my username is a 4-character headcode I used to see every day on the way to/from school.

Sectorisation era? Who am I trying to kid? :-)

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12 hours ago, 9C85 said:

Now ebay is giving me a super cheap offer of a Gresley full brake in BR blue.  That would take the date back to 1977 or earlier, so 4-character headcodes could come into play , and after all, that's the era which got me interested in railways The dual/multi era layout is becoming more appealing 

The last Gresley full brake was withdrawn in 1977 but headcodes finished (officially) 1st January 1976. The Collett and Hawkesworth BGs (by then B) lasted into 1978.

 

1976/77 is a very useful year to model!

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I have a vague, and quite possibly inaccurate, memory of a 4-wheel BR CCT or two standing on the tracks in front of the, then, Bristol Industrial Museum in the very late 70s or early 80s, although I can't think of too many (any, really) valid reasons why they might have been there. 

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On 16/02/2020 at 20:16, rob D2 said:

It’s your railway , run what you fancy.

i run BR blue and EWS, but also have a few I like from in the middle - ie a Dutch 37/47 and large logo47.

 

my theory is that the Dutch stuff came in 1991, so any loco from 85/86 running next to it is only 5 years adrift and I can live with that.

 

running a blue 31and an EWS 60 is too far a stretch for me 

 

Well this picture is reported as being from 1997. An EWS 60

 

CLASS 60 No 60043 AT SILVERDALE APRIL 1997

 

and from this page

 

http://petertandy.co.uk/class31.htm

 

this picture is stated as being 1997 too, BR Blue 31

 

31450_306_defford_30597.jpg

 

 

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31134 Preston

 and 'hey presto(n) I have found this image.  So if Dutch 31s were used on passenger services  (albeit rarely), then it's not too much of a leap to have one working ECS trains to and from a station  (my layout is a carriage sidings/fuelling point ), especially if I say I am operating a 'weekday ' service when the engineering trains are less busy and have a few spare 31s knocking around. 

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