Okehampton Railway re-opening

[Zomboid]

5 hours ago, KeithHC said:

Now if the project got sold as giving employment and bolstering the economy during a recession and being of strategic use........

HS2 is doing that. I've nothing against Plymouth and Cornwall, but I don't think it is presently strategically important enough to justify the project. It would have to stand up on its own as a viable local service. I've no idea if it would, but the only places with a population worth counting along the route are Crediton (8000), Okehampton (6000) and Tavistock (11000), with a total of 25000 between them (Newton Abbot on its own has 26000). And Crediton already has a rail service. Obviously there are other places around to bump that up, but it's a lot of money to serve not a lot of population so I just don't see it. And if the money is there then a brand new inland Dawlish bypass between NA and Exeter would probably have greater benefits.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Zomboid

[mdvle]

5 hours ago, KeithHC said:

The biggest problem we have is lack of foresight. If you think about it the logical thing to do is rebuild the line through out ok using dynamic loops not double tracked. However until Dawlish gets breached again then nothing will happen.

 

Actually, if you are worried about Dawlish - which appears unlikely to happen again anytime soon given the extensive work that has been done/is being done by Network Rail and by acknowledging that for historical non-railway reasons that particularly section of Dawlish had been a weak point - then the logical thing for NR to do would be to follow the GWR plans and build the new route inland that would continue to service the major population centres of Devon.

 

Maintaining a railway through a lightly populated area "just in case" isn't a good use of money (and hence isn't logical), particularly when you first have to rebuild the entire abandoned route.

[Gwiwer]

1 hour ago, caradoc said:

It does seem strange that Ilfracombe lost its railway, but was the station not poorly located for the town ?

 The station was on the only site it possibly could have been given that Ilfracombe sits on the side of a large and very steep hillside.  Famously at least one locomotive was "picked up" by the wind and spun on the turntable there for ages until control was regained by the crew.  It was far from ideal.  In the heyday of the Great British Summer Holiday it wasn't at all unknown for hundreds of folk - families and all - to disgorge from the train and traipse down into the town seeking their accommodation.  The trek back up was long and tiresome.  

 

In the 21st Century many more people have cars and those who don't have the benefits of greater taxi availability and - at least in the case of Ilfracombe - a regular daily bus service.  If the station had survived I doubt it would see a lot of use other than for a little commuting traffic, possibly schools, and a much-reduced level of summer holiday patronage compared with its glory days.  

 

Braunton to Barnstaple Town is about the only strong year-round potential traffic flow and that, despite congestion, is well catered for by the buses which are uncommonly frequent for Devon.  They even take buggies and wheelchairs (as the law requires them to) on buses now meaning the social exclusion which rail abandonment portended no longer exists to that extent.  

 

 

 

 

[Rivercider]

13 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

Actually, if you are worried about Dawlish - which appears unlikely to happen again anytime soon given the extensive work that has been done/is being done by Network Rail and by acknowledging that for historical non-railway reasons that particularly section of Dawlish had been a weak point - then the logical thing for NR to do would be to follow the GWR plans and build the new route inland that would continue to service the major population centres of Devon.

 

Maintaining a railway through a lightly populated area "just in case" isn't a good use of money (and hence isn't logical), particularly when you first have to rebuild the entire abandoned route.

That particular stretch at Dawlish has now been dealt with. Has the ongoing work at Teignmouth on the cliff been completed yet?

Also do not forget that if there is any appreciable sea level rise the the route up the Exe to Turf Locks, and possibly up the Teign might also need additional protection.

 

cheers  

[KeithMacdonald]

20 hours ago, Ramblin Rich said:

The width of the formation might allow shared rail and bike use as is the case from Okehampton to Meldon

 

That was the configuration for the last plans published for Bere - Tavi (single track with cycleway next to it).

 

Meldon might be "A Bridge Too Far" (for now). But salami tactics might still win the day ...

[D826]

Tongue in cheek, - if they reopened Barnstaple to Ilfracombe then the curve from Barnstaple Junction over the Bridge to Victoria Road would be next.  Demolish McDonalds, reclaim the site of Vic Rd. 

 

Then sod the cars and  watch the grockles gasp as they are overhauled on the link road by a 93xx or D6300 reclaiming their iron road through Filleigh, South Molton and Molland on to Bampton, Wiveliscombe and Dulverton Norton Fitzwarren.  God they're places I'd loved to have travelled to by train back in the day ! 

 

1 in 36 from Ilfracombe up the Slade Valley.  I bet those locos worked hard (West Country, 93xx or D800/D7000 which would sound best eh)?  I bet  approach to the buffers at Ilfracombe involved plenty of gentle, and not so gentle brake applications.

 

Lovely lovely part of the world.  Love using the old southern route from Umberleigh to Exeter and have Portsmouth Arms replica hot dog  totem  in Southern Green.

 

I'm old enough to remember seeing a 25 on ball clay from Meeth running along the causeway beside the Torridge between Instow and Bideford.

 

My ideas of rail Reopening might blow the budget a bit though.  

 

For now,  services from Okehampton to Exeter is good news.

 

Don't get me started on the Teign Valley, imagine departing Newton Abbot for Exeter via Christow !  We can always dream.

 

Best regards me 'ansomes.

 

Matt W

Edited March 22, 2021 by D826
Enthusiasm and English !

[Gwiwer]

1 hour ago, D826 said:

1 in 36 from Ilfracombe up the Slade Valley.  I bet those locos worked hard

My final trip from Ilfracombe was on a railtour a few weeks before closure.  2x33 with (I think) 11 fully loaded Mk1s would have put some of Mr. Bulleid's finest to shame for sound and fury on that hill.  In steam days anything heavy was often banked.  

[IWCR]

I recall reading somewhere that when the Exeter - Okehampton - Plymouth line was closed to passengers there was an intention to retain a single track line throughout as a diversion / freight route.

This idea was subsequently abandoned after the scrap recovery had made some progress with mistakenly lifting both tracks.

A  BR official made a visit to Plymouth with the intention of inspecting the route only to be told "to late, its gone"

Anyone know if there was any truth behind this story?.

 

Pete

[Oldddudders]

I haven't heard that, but remain convinced that since the WR took over from Wilton South, their Civil Engineer had had a distinct distrust of Meldon Viaduct, and would have been pressing for substantial funds to put it in good order. That alone would have prejudiced the case against keeping even one line open. But of course, keeping one line open still requires regular patrolling by the P Way and other resources if it is to be of use at short notice. And a single line would be useless as a diversionary route, permitting one train each way every couple of hours at best.

 

None of that means your story isn't true, but what the suits at Marylebone thought a good idea and what WR knew would work may well have been different.  

[Siberian Snooper]

46 minutes ago, IWCR said:

I recall reading somewhere that when the Exeter - Okehampton - Plymouth line was closed to passengers there was an intention to retain a single track line throughout as a diversion / freight route.

This idea was subsequently abandoned after the scrap recovery had made some progress with mistakenly lifting both tracks.

A  BR official made a visit to Plymouth with the intention of inspecting the route only to be told "to late, its gone"

Anyone know if there was any truth behind this story?.

 

Pete

 

That was the story that I heard, from  the locals when I moved to Lydford in '71. They also said that the line was removed very quickly after closure.

 

 

 

 

[Gwiwer]

There are all sorts of stories concerning the WR takeover west of Wilton but that one I haven't heard.  Any truth might only emerge if source material were researched and a definitive book published on the machinations of BR and the ups and downs of the LSWR main line.

 

What is generally recognised, however, is that Meldon Viaducts (there are two interwoven structures) are at best weak-kneed and whilst considered safe for walkers and cyclists who don't have axle-loadings in the 20-ton bracket there is not much likelihood of trains being permitted across unless there is a very fancy amount of money spent to reinforce the structure.  A rebuild would probably prove prohibitive for any purpose.  

[rab]

19 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

My final trip from Ilfracombe was on a railtour a few weeks before closure.  2x33 with (I think) 11 fully loaded Mk1s would have put some of Mr. Bulleid's finest to shame for sound and fury on that hill.  In steam days anything heavy was often banked.  

If it was a spamcan being banked, the banker(s) were probably doing all the work while the spamcan polished the railhead

[Northmoor]

5 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

I haven't heard that, but remain convinced that since the WR took over from Wilton South, their Civil Engineer had had a distinct distrust of Meldon Viaduct, and would have been pressing for substantial funds to put it in good order. That alone would have prejudiced the case against keeping even one line open. But of course, keeping one line open still requires regular patrolling by the P Way and other resources if it is to be of use at short notice. And a single line would be useless as a diversionary route, permitting one train each way every couple of hours at best.

 

None of that means your story isn't true, but what the suits at Marylebone thought a good idea and what WR knew would work may well have been different.  

You are right about inspection costs but, while it's not the same as a double track line, a single track is only this restricted if (a) it's a single block section, (b) no passing loop was installed anywhere between Plymouth and Okehampton, and (c) diverted trains are all scheduled in alternate directions.  In the event of emergency diversions, NR would be likely to operate the line on a "tidal flow" basis, i.e. 2-3 one way then 2-3 the other.

[trevora]

1 hour ago, rab said:

If it was a spamcan being banked, the banker(s) were probably doing all the work while the spamcan polished the railhead

But often the banker was a spamcan as well

[Oldddudders]

14 hours ago, Northmoor said:

You are right about inspection costs but, while it's not the same as a double track line, a single track is only this restricted if (a) it's a single block section, (b) no passing loop was installed anywhere between Plymouth and Okehampton, and (c) diverted trains are all scheduled in alternate directions.  In the event of emergency diversions, NR would be likely to operate the line on a "tidal flow" basis, i.e. 2-3 one way then 2-3 the other.

And with C21 tech, the loops could be remotely operated. That was not a realistic option in the mid-60s, which is what we were discussing, and would certainly add to costs now. 

[Not Jeremy]

Ah, tis the season for naysayers.....

 

I for one look forward to getting on a train and travelling to Okehampton - fantastic news and who really knows what the future holds for this route ? Potentially so very much more than a "Dawlish replacement" for heavens sake.

 

In the meantime, here's a picture of that "weak-kneed" structure with some featherweight train on top of it, gosh they were brave back in those days.

 

Westward Ho hauls four "blood and custard" Mk 1s eastwards across Meldon Viaduct in 1959. A Peter Barnfield picture taken from his wonderful book "Memories of the Withered Arm" published by Wild Swan.

 

In the absence of a time machine (in either direction, natch) this book is a very fine record of the Southern Railway's network in the West Country, with lots of superb photographs and recollections of actually travelling on many of the lines.

 

Memories of The Withered Arm Travels over the SR lines West of Exeter 1958-62

 

Roll on my beauty! Oh sorry, I came over all Rapido for a moment there.....

 

Not Jeremy

[lmsforever]

What is happenning to the rake of coaches in the platform at  Okehampton they look in good condition ?

[Rivercider]

3 minutes ago, lmsforever said:

What is happenning to the rake of coaches in the platform at  Okehampton they look in good condition ?

On 'The Withered Arm' Facebook group there are photos of stock being shunted at Meldon,

with comments that the stock had been cleared from platform 2 at Okehampton to enable Network Rail

to carry out gauging tests through the platform. It is also stated that all the stock has been sold to other heritage railways,

 

cheers

[009 micro modeller]

9 minutes ago, Rivercider said:

It is also stated that all the stock has been sold to other heritage railways

 

Does this mean that Meldon Viaduct station will close and there will be no attempt to keep a heritage operation on the shorter Meldon to Okehampton section?

[mdvle]

2 hours ago, Not Jeremy said:

Ah, tis the season for naysayers.....

 

As one of said naysayers, I wish I wasn't - I would like nothing more than to see rail lines like the former LSWR through Devon opened again.

 

But everything I have read is that this line struggled even when open - and arguably was only kept open for the sake of competing with the GWR - and at the end of the day whether we like it or not money matters(*).

 

And with current rumours that a serious budget cut is coming to NR, adding more loss making services to the network doesn't seem like a wise (or likely) thing to happen (yes, I know NR doesn't run or fund the trains - but if the Government is cutting NR's budget then they are also looking at the subsidies to the TOCs or whatever the way forward is called).

 

2 hours ago, Not Jeremy said:

Potentially so very much more than a "Dawlish replacement" for heavens sake.

 

But that is precisely the problem - it isn't a Dawlish replacment.  Thus restoring service depends on a business case that fails given how few people live along the line.  Thus it isn't "potentially so very much more".

 

Now if a lot of people decide to move to North Devon things might change.

 

2 hours ago, Not Jeremy said:

In the meantime, here's a picture of that "weak-kneed" structure with some featherweight train on top of it, gosh they were brave back in those days.

 

And said structure likely deteriorated since that photo, given a lack of maintenance - a lack of maintenance likely largely driven by the reality of few passengers thus no revenue to pay for that maintenance.

 

Now add in all the years of no maintenance since the line was closed, and you have a structure that was apparently questionable at the best of times being unfit for modern train usage.

 

* in the meantime over here in Canada a short line is scheduled to be shutdown at the end of this year because it has lost money since they bought it from the CPR 20 years ago - forcing the industry to switch to road transport.  Stupid and short sighted (given it is owned by the town it serves), likely.  But the taxpayers are tired of covering the losses...

[phil-b259]

NR video about it

 

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/stories/devon-railway-line-set-to-reopen-for-first-time-in-50-years/

[Not Jeremy]

Great things happening along the line now that it is back on the National Network, the best railway news to my ears since they didn't close the Settle and Carlisle.

 

Colas driver's view along the line

 

Simon

[KeithMacdonald]

Just spotted in Plymouth Herald

 

Quote

 

Breakthrough in bid to reinstate Devon railway with hourly service from Tavistock to Plymouth.

Devon County Council has put forward the bid to reinstate the disused rail line between Tavistock and Bere Alston to provide hourly rail services through to Plymouth

 

 

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/breakthrough-bid-reinstate-devon-railway-5534370

 

Just spotted on Twitter 

 

 

 

[bgman]

1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Just spotted in Plymouth Herald

 

 

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/breakthrough-bid-reinstate-devon-railway-5534370

 

Just spotted on Twitter 

 

 

 

 

Must be an ex-Suvvern driver in charge of the controls ! 

[rab]

2 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Just spotted in Plymouth Herald

 

 

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/breakthrough-bid-reinstate-devon-railway-5534370

 

Just spotted on Twitter 

 

 

 

It's only a bid to fund the business case.

i wouldn't go rushing to buy tickets yet.