Okehampton Railway re-opening

[Rivercider]

On 12/10/2021 at 07:06, ess1uk said:

Trains were running yesterday on crew training 

That is good news.

I travelled up to Barnstaple on Tuesday, and noticed the rails beyond Crediton were more shiny than I have seen recently. There are quite a few temporary speed restrictions between Crediton and Coleford Junction on the Okehampton route that I noticed.

 

cheers

[Rivercider]

43 minutes ago, ess1uk said:

up until an hour ago i thought they were being optimistic.

might yet even happen.

I have the date in my diary, and intend to travel to Okehampton on the re-opening day.

Having travelled to Ilfracombe and Minehead in the last month of BR service it will be good to be part of something positive.

I 'may' get to travel by train to Portishead too one day, but (assuming average life expectancy) I have about 19 years left.....

 

cheers

[ess1uk]

[ess1uk]

last one for today 

[ess1uk]

20 hours ago, ess1uk said:

up until an hour ago i thought they were being optimistic.

might yet even happen.

This morning I’m even more optimistic.

still plenty to be done but it’s getting there.

happy to have played a small part in getting trains back 

[ess1uk]

19 hours ago, Rivercider said:

I have the date in my diary, and intend to travel to Okehampton on the re-opening day.

Having travelled to Ilfracombe and Minehead in the last month of BR service it will be good to be part of something positive.

I 'may' get to travel by train to Portishead too one day, but (assuming average life expectancy) I have about 19 years left.....

 

cheers

Portishead may come quicker than you think if reports I’ve seen recently are true.

[D826]

On 08/10/2021 at 21:10, Rivercider said:

There are recovered track sections stacked up at Barnstaple, which I believe are for the re-instatement of the second platform when it gets done.  The stacked up track can be seen in the distance here.

A train from Exeter arrives formed of set 158747, 3/8/2021

 

cheers

Hello Rivercider/Kevin

 

Your post piqued my interest.  Do you know when they're intending to reinstate a second platform at Barnstaple? 

 

I wonder if there'll be a crossover/points to run round and open up the possibility of non top n tailed specials.

Mind you, paths will be scarce now the line is so busy - which is good.

 

They took the run round away not long after I started working in Barnstaple in September 1990.  Trip to job interview earlier in June 90 was memorable, not only for the overnight hotel stay, but also cos the train up from St David's was 50 hauled.  

 

Still deriving much pleasure from your books by the way.

 

Best regards

 

Matt W.

 

 

[Zomboid]

A run round beyond the platforms would be rarely used and would require a bridge (or very long walking route) to the second platform, whilst having two terminal platforms will only need a short level construction to get over. A crossover in the platforms would probably extensions towards Exeter to be useful. So it seems unlikely to me.

[D826]

Fair enough Zomboid.

 

Just wondering.

 

This is how they did it in the 70's.  From the wonderful North Devon Line cyber heritage website.

 

[Rivercider]

2 hours ago, D826 said:

Hello Rivercider/Kevin

 

Your post piqued my interest.  Do you know when they're intending to reinstate a second platform at Barnstaple? 

 

I wonder if there'll be a crossover/points to run round and open up the possibility of non top n tailed specials.

Mind you, paths will be scarce now the line is so busy - which is good.

 

They took the run round away not long after I started working in Barnstaple in September 1990.  Trip to job interview earlier in June 90 was memorable, not only for the overnight hotel stay, but also cos the train up from St David's was 50 hauled.  

 

Still deriving much pleasure from your books by the way.

 

Best regards

 

Matt W.

 

 

I have no idea on timescale for the re-instatement of a second platform.

It was on  the North Devon Railways Facebook group that I saw photos of the track sections being delivered by road to Barnstaple, back in November 2019. The following comments at the time suggested just an additional platform road was planned to increase resilience, no run-round road was expected. 

 

Thanks for the comment about the books

 

cheers

Edited October 18, 2021 by Rivercider
additional information

[Northmoor]

2 hours ago, D826 said:

Hello Rivercider/Kevin

 

Your post piqued my interest.  Do you know when they're intending to reinstate a second platform at Barnstaple? 

 

I wonder if there'll be a crossover/points to run round and open up the possibility of non top n tailed specials.

Mind you, paths will be scarce now the line is so busy - which is good.

 

They took the run round away not long after I started working in Barnstaple in September 1990.  Trip to job interview earlier in June 90 was memorable, not only for the overnight hotel stay, but also cos the train up from St David's was 50 hauled.  

 

Still deriving much pleasure from your books by the way.

 

Best regards

 

Matt W.

 

 

Realistically the chances of a run-round loop being installed are Nil.  They have been removed at virtually every branch and main line terminus in the UK because the need for them is very limited.

 

If you think about it, there is no benefit in having a loop, even ignoring the theoretical maintenance liability of two sets of rarely-used points (with the risk that they don't work when the once-a-year railtour gets there and is trapped).  An enthusiasts' special is likely visiting more than one termini so will have to change direction multiple times and unless all the termini have run round loops, you will still need to top-and-tail. 

 

Running round is very constraining on train scheduling because there is a minimum time to do a run-round; consider a special visiting multiple branches and which is likely to need 10 minutes (minimum) to run round each time, as it's an unfamiliar operation which the staff are probably not well-practised at every location.  The operator might have intended to spend 20 minutes at each terminus (for the loonies to run out to take the same three-quarter view of the loco that they took at all the other termini), so if running late, they cannot really exploit recovery time from the termini.  Topping and tailing, the operator can cut the visit short to five minutes and start to make up significant time.

[Kris]

10 hours ago, Northmoor said:

Realistically the chances of a run-round loop being installed are Nil.  They have been removed at virtually every branch and main line terminus in the UK because the need for them is very limited.

 

If you think about it, there is no benefit in having a loop, even ignoring the theoretical maintenance liability of two sets of rarely-used points (with the risk that they don't work when the once-a-year railtour gets there and is trapped).  An enthusiasts' special is likely visiting more than one termini so will have to change direction multiple times and unless all the termini have run round loops, you will still need to top-and-tail. 

 

Running round is very constraining on train scheduling because there is a minimum time to do a run-round; consider a special visiting multiple branches and which is likely to need 10 minutes (minimum) to run round each time, as it's an unfamiliar operation which the staff are probably not well-practised at every location.  The operator might have intended to spend 20 minutes at each terminus (for the loonies to run out to take the same three-quarter view of the loco that they took at all the other termini), so if running late, they cannot really exploit recovery time from the termini.  Topping and tailing, the operator can cut the visit short to five minutes and start to make up significant time.

The only hope for a run round loop would be if the local council paid for it.

I can't see the point in reinstating the second platform unless you are expecting a train to break down in the station. If a second platform were to be added on the line, then adding a loop at one of the intermediate stations to allow for a greater service frequency would seem to make more sense. 

[fezza]

I'm confused by this. Didn't they install a loop just outside Barnstaple station on the Up side when the platform loop was taken out? It was still there and apparently operational last time I went up the branch. The problem was that it was only suitable for short loco hauled substitutions of the sort that were frequent in 1989/90 so railtours still had to be top and tailed. 

 

I have seen track stacked there at Barnstaple before - presumably the loop was /is used by engineering trains occasionally and this is a convenient dump/storage place?

[Zomboid]

52 minutes ago, Kris said:

can't see the point in reinstating the second platform unless you are expecting a train to break down in the station

Presumably it'll give resilience. Not that it takes long to turn a train round, but as you say it doesn't seem to do much for timetable improvements.

[surfsup]

11 hours ago, Zomboid said:

Presumably it'll give resilience. Not that it takes long to turn a train round, but as you say it doesn't seem to do much for timetable improvements. 

Resilience and presumably stabling for any late night services? (if GWR trusts a unit to be outstationed Barnstaple for the night?) 

[Kris]

5 minutes ago, surfsup said:

Resilience and presumably stabling for any late night services? (if GWR trusts a unit to be outstationed Barnstaple for the night?) 

GWR have a depot at Exeter that is used for units, no real point stabling anything at Barnstaple.

[Rivercider]

On 19/10/2021 at 08:27, fezza said:

I'm confused by this. Didn't they install a loop just outside Barnstaple station on the Up side when the platform loop was taken out? It was still there and apparently operational last time I went up the branch. The problem was that it was only suitable for short loco hauled substitutions of the sort that were frequent in 1989/90 so railtours still had to be top and tailed. 

 

I have seen track stacked there at Barnstaple before - presumably the loop was /is used by engineering trains occasionally and this is a convenient dump/storage place?

I have been back up to North Devon a couple of times in the last two weeks walking and visiting museums.

Here is a morning view of the platform end at Barnstaple, the connection to the run-round loop can be seen. together with two of the stacks of track sections, there are more to the left - they were all delivered by road I believe,

Barnstaple looking south,  12/10/2021

 

cheers

[Ramblin Rich]

Looking at Kevin's picture above, I thought "that track's not very smooth" - but neither is the platform face! I presume it's historical, from where the centre road diverged.

It also looks like there's a track leading towards the disused platform, in the distance on the right. I don't know if it's actually connected to the running line though?

[Rivercider]

On 19/10/2021 at 08:58, Zomboid said:

Presumably it'll give resilience. Not that it takes long to turn a train round, but as you say it doesn't seem to do much for timetable improvements.

The current timetable shows about 24 minutes minimum running time from Eggesford to Barnstaple each way, in order to improve the service a loop would be required (somewhere around Umberleigh) to break up that long section.

 

Signalling experts might be able to explain, but I think there is also a capacity issue with the two single lines between Crediton and Coleford Junction regarding the road crossings on that section. I have heard it said that after the barriers have operated for a train to pass on one line there is a delay before a train can be signalled across on the other line,

 

cheers

[Rivercider]

10 minutes ago, Ramblin Rich said:

Looking at Kevin's picture above, I thought "that track's not very smooth" - but neither is the platform face! I presume it's historical, from where the centre road diverged.

It also looks like there's a track leading towards the disused platform, in the distance on the right. I don't know if it's actually connected to the running line though?

Yes I had not realised that you can see part of the connection in the photo.

I do remember noticing it on a previous journey, but of course from the train I could not see how complete the trackwork was,

 

cheers

[Zomboid]

Google Earth shows that the run round/ siding connection has the second turnout in place so that the second platform track could theoretically just be laid without new S&C. Though signalling it all will add to the expense, and the condition of it might not be that clever either.

[fezza]

If the current lot in Westminster really want to reverse Beeching they will bring back Bideford and Torrington too. Will they commit when big money is needed to promote a local green green transport agenda?

 

It is amazing that two towns so close to Barny were cut off - both these stations were closer to their respective town centres than Okehampton. It demonstrates the stupidity of the idea that North Devon only really needed a single railhead - both these towns were a good source of local traffic.

[Hal Nail]

On 20/10/2021 at 13:13, Rivercider said:

Signalling experts might be able to explain, but I think there is also a capacity issue with the two single lines between Crediton and Coleford Junction regarding the road crossings on that section. I have heard it said that after the barriers have operated for a train to pass on one line there is a delay before a train can be signalled across on the other line,

 

I'm not sure about all the crossings but trains heading towards Exeter stop short of the Crediton level crossing at the signal box, I assumed to hand the token over given the sign there saying "end of token controlled section" but i was guessing! Obviously therefore trains heading towards Barnstaple have to wait to cross onto the right hand line and collect the token so by default there is a delay over that crossing and when i was there they always opened the barriers in between.

 

In terms of capacity on the Barnstaple route, I did notice last week that they don't announce any of the request stops in the last section towards Barnstaple and I got the impression in both directions that they needed to get a shift on, whereas the first "half" of the route was a bit more leisurely and each stop was flagged in advance.

 

 

 

Edited to be more relevant to the point made. 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Hal Nail

[Zomboid]

3 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

terms of capacity on the Barnstaple route, I did notice last week that they don't announce any of the request stops in the last section towards Barnstaple and I got the impression in both directions that they needed to get a shift on, whereas the first "half" of the route was a bit more leisurely and each stop was flagged in advance

Was that train due to call anyway? I had the impression that there were very few trains which would actually stop at all stations. Last I knew there were only 3 or 4 opportunities a day to use Portsmouth Arms, for example.

[bgman]

3 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

trains heading towards Exeter stop short of the Crediton level crossing at the signal box, I assumed to hand the token over given the sign there saying "end of token controlled section"

 

Absolutely correct.

 

It is between the Eggesford and Crediton section where this occurs. 

Edited October 25, 2021 by bgman