Okehampton Railway re-opening

[phil-b259]

4 minutes ago, ess1uk said:

They are quite prevalent apparently 

 

But also hibernate during the Winter and are a protected species IIRC. As such sounds like the car park is on hold till next spring.

[rodent279]

On 25/11/2021 at 17:58, ess1uk said:

the station car park at Okehampton has not been finished due to dormice

Quite right too, good to see some responsible behaviour on the part of NR. Top marks to them.

[corneliuslundie]

I hope they are ordinary dormice, not the Edible Dormouse which was imported some decades ago from France and escaped from one of the Home Counties estates, causing mayhem - but is protected under European law - I don't know if we have changed this since Brexit. They look more like squirrels than dormice.

Jonathan

[Mallard60022]

On 25/11/2021 at 18:29, Kris said:

There are some things that you just couldn't make up! 

Meaning? Are Dormice not important? Sometimes things just need a little time to be sorted.

P

[Captain Kernow]

On 18/10/2021 at 21:35, Rivercider said:

I have no idea on timescale for the re-instatement of a second platform.

It was on  the North Devon Railways Facebook group that I saw photos of the track sections being delivered by road to Barnstaple, back in November 2019. The following comments at the time suggested just an additional platform road was planned to increase resilience, no run-round road was expected.

Without enquiring (and I will do so), I doubt that there will be an operational second platform at Barnstaple any time soon.

 

Yes, there is just the stub of a set of points at the station 'throat', which used to control access to the other platform(s?) and I campaigned internally quite hard for a number of years, when I was working, for it's retention, but the local PW really, really wanted to remove it, on cost grounds.

 

There had been occasional talk back then, over the years, of reinstating the track to the second platform, albeit not in operational use, as a PW exercise for new recruits and the like and also to improve the visual appeal of the station (the local community rail group were very keen at the time). Eventually, they were granted access (under a special Licence) to the actual platform surface, for the purposes of tidying up, planting flowerbeds etc. I was responsible for the re-issue of the annual licence (together with a number of others, elsewhere on the patch).

 

As an absolute minimum, to make a second platform operational, quite apart from all the PW work and other infrastructure work (eg. upgrading the platform, disabled access, passenger information systems etc.), there would need to be a lock-in token instrument provided, which allowed an arriving train to lock itself in the second platform and return the token to the machine, to allow another train to run up from Eggesford. This would be quite an expensive process, for uncertain commercial gain.

 

In terms of improving line capacity, the more obvious way is to make what you've already got, work harder for you. In other words, line speed improvements and (possibly) longer trains.

 

While I was working, there was a very considerable 'push' by the local rail user groups, community rail etc. for line speed improvements, especially over the older, jointed track sections. Such line speed improvements could not just be granted and would normally require relaying as a basis. I always made sure that the relaying contractors in my day, relaid any sections to be fit for a higher line speed, ideally 70 or 75mph as a minimum.

 

Even then, you couldn't just raise the speeds as a Network Change would be required and before even that could be started, there was the question of sighting at the many level crossings. Such level crossings, especially those without a phone, relied on adequate sighting of approaching trains by crossing users, to enable a safe 'go, no go' decision to be taken. I was involved (initiated, in fact) a lengthy exercise to look at each individual crossing and make recommendations to make it compliant with a higher line speed.

 

In the end, none of this work came to much, because the 'powers that be' weren't interested. Their eyes were on bigger projects (such as GWML electrification). It wasn't the 'right time' for such enhancements (although the track relaying works continued piecemeal, in response to deteriorating old track that had to be renewed).

 

Perhaps the Barnstaple line's 'time' is approaching? Hopefully yes!

 

[Davexoc]

20 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

I hope they are ordinary dormice, not the Edible Dormouse which was imported some decades ago from France and escaped from one of the Home Counties estates, causing mayhem - but is protected under European law - I don't know if we have changed this since Brexit. They look more like squirrels than dormice.

Jonathan

 

Also known as Glis Glis, which escaped into the Chilterns around Tring from the Rothschild Estate, and they can be despatched if you are licenced. Our pest controller at work has bumped into them, said they are bold as brass, and will wreak havoc in a roof space, especially to the wiring.

Definitely not desirable in a railway room.....

[ess1uk]

Ground investigation taking place on the Dartmoor line west of Okehampton, near Meldon Quarry - preliminary work for installation of communications masts for future ballast traffic from the quarry.

test drilling next to the bridge carrying the dual carriageway 

[Gwiwer]

Okehampton is due to receive its first Christmas Day service in many years.  

 

As has become the custom train 1X01 departs from and returns to North Pole International being advertised to stop at all locations between 23.58 and 00.02.  And as usual there are a couple of oddities in there such as "Butterwell Opencast - stops to pick up coal" and between Rannoch and Corrour is "Naughty Kid - stops to drop off coal"   

 

[jcredfer]

16 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

Okehampton is due to receive its first Christmas Day service in many years.  

 

As has become the custom train 1X01 departs from and returns to North Pole International being advertised to stop at all locations between 23.58 and 00.02.  And as usual there are a couple of oddities in there such as "Butterwell Opencast - stops to pick up coal" and between Rannoch and Corrour is "Naughty Kid - stops to drop off coal"   

 

 

Brilliant...  booked on already!!

 

 

[Paul4256]

The new rail bus service between Tavistock & Okehampton station is routed via Brentor & Lydford (station road - opposite the gorge).

Scheduled to meet each train. 

 

https://dartmoorline.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Timetable-Leaflet-Service-118-from-Dec-2021.pdf

 

[fezza]

Camera phone picture of Christmas holiday trip.  Unfortunately I didn't have time to visit the station museum.

 

GWR all over former Southern territory still grates a bit, especially here and at Exeter Central...

[fezza]

One more. It is nice to see Okehampton on destination boards and Okehampton trains in the bay platform at Exeter.

[brianusa]

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<GWR all over former Southern territory still grates a bit, especially here and at Exeter Central...>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Half the potential passengers are not likely to have any knowledge or interest of the usurper.  A train is a train which takes you somewhere and its colour is immaterial.  But as an age old Southern spotter on Central, I know what you mean and in those days there was a shedful of foreign locos just up the line and busy station tracks at Central

    Brian.

Edited January 4, 2022 by brianusa

[Not Jeremy]

Could this be the beginning of something big in the West Country?

 

https://join-up.uk/?fbclid=IwAR3in7blqCy84c0feQ2-MbXytAqDh43xNg0P5UBJc3W6HUC-rogfx5BdKj4

 

Either way, talking it up has got to be better than talking it down.

 

Simon

Edited January 5, 2022 by Not Jeremy
More information

[bgman]

31 minutes ago, Not Jeremy said:

Could this be the beginning of something big in the West Country?

 

https://join-up.uk/?fbclid=IwAR3in7blqCy84c0feQ2-MbXytAqDh43xNg0P5UBJc3W6HUC-rogfx5BdKj4

 

Either way, talking it up has got to be better than talking it down.

 

Simon

 

A Lemon 

[corneliuslundie]

I think every possible argument on this topic has already taken place on the Dawlish thread.

The best of luck to them, but don't book your ticket yet.

Jonathan

[Captain Kernow]

7 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

I think every possible argument on this topic has already taken place on the Dawlish thread.

The best of luck to them, but don't book your ticket yet.

Jonathan

Funding will have to come from some completely unrelated 'pot' to that used to maintain and improve the Dawlish main line. That's not to say it couldn't happen, of course.

 

This is a project that deserves to be done, but it can only work if it's put back as a local line, serving the local communities, with just enough capacity built in to permit diversions, should the Dawlish line be blocked for any reason.

 

[Kris]

1 hour ago, Not Jeremy said:

Could this be the beginning of something big in the West Country?

 

https://join-up.uk/?fbclid=IwAR3in7blqCy84c0feQ2-MbXytAqDh43xNg0P5UBJc3W6HUC-rogfx5BdKj4

 

Either way, talking it up has got to be better than talking it down.

 

Simon

Looks very much like a one man band who has some skills at producing fancy documents giving the impression that it is a much bigger organisation than it really is. 

[Rivercider]

31 minutes ago, Kris said:

Looks very much like a one man band who has some skills at producing fancy documents giving the impression that it is a much bigger organisation than it really is. 

When I was at Okehampton on the opening day of the Dartmoor Line I had the chance to have a brief conversation with some of the GWR management that were present that day. After a quick chat about how good it was for trains to be back at Okehampton I asked about future projects, including Tavistock. The reply, although non-committal, gave me the distinct impression of 'watch this space'. So although I won't be holding my breath I do think it is prospect of re-opening is greater than it was a few years ago,

 

cheers

[roundhouse]

We had our first ride on the reopened line today (three times in the past on railtours and Summer Sunday services) . Pleasantly busy and the £1 each way for the connecting bus to and from town is also very good despite that we decided to walk down due to the sunny day.

The West Street bus stop is handy for a quick dash from the London Inn.

[Not Jeremy]

2 hours ago, bgman said:

 

A Lemon 

 

An acorn!

 

See what I did there?

 

And I'll have a pint while you're up at the bar...

 

Churrrs

[The Stationmaster]

21 hours ago, Not Jeremy said:

Could this be the beginning of something big in the West Country?

 

https://join-up.uk/?fbclid=IwAR3in7blqCy84c0feQ2-MbXytAqDh43xNg0P5UBJc3W6HUC-rogfx5BdKj4

 

Either way, talking it up has got to be better than talking it down.

 

Simon

To answer your initial question - No!

 

Pressure groups can sometimes succeed but they need political support and lots of money.  Over the years I looked or reviewed (professionally) various proposals or parts of such proposals to re-open three sections of railway route which lost their passenger traffic/were closed completely a good many decades ago.  Only one of them has happened (Ebbw Vale) and one big reason for it happening was that it received very strong political support which helped to ensure that a some stage funding would come forward.  But it also had the advantage of creating a train service which would go to somewhere that people wanted to go to for both employment and leisure reasons and the station it  would go to in that destination was attractively sited to serve those markets.

 

The two which have still got nowhere included one in the north west of England which interestingly although a former branch line did aim very specifically to run fast trains (up to 90mph) to somewhere that was as sensible a destination as Cardiff was from Ebbw Vale.  The promoter had done much to create interest and garner support and some funding had been made available for professional studies of various aspects of reopening the line and creating a suitable train service plan.   Those studies were all positive but the line has still not reopened and funding, or rather the lack of, will probably keep it in the 'unlikely' drawer.

 

The third one was Bere Alston -Tavistock and it has had (I think perhaps 'off & on') over the decades various levels of local political support.  Trains would go to somewhere that people do travel to but the station is perhaps not well situated for what many potential travellers want so it might be difficult to tempt them from their cars.  I haven't seen any commercial assessments of that proposal so don't know much there.  But I did see, and commented on, some of the technical work and to be blunt in order to meet what people holding any potential purse strings were saying it was going to be a low cost 'basic railway' which limited the frequency and journey times of any sort of train service.  Considerably larger sums of money would be needed to create something which would give  more frequent trains with shorter journey times to entice people out of their cars - notwithstanding the horrendous traffic queue to get into Plymouth every day.

 

Again being blunt nobody is going to get that for a suggested mere £18.5 million. The average cost per mile of reopening an existing railway to passenger trains to Okehampton was £2.2million; the average cost of the Borders Railway was £8.4 million at 2012 prices.  The amount of work required to reconstruct a railway to Tavistock obviously lies between the two but it is more a matter of total reconstruction rather than upgrading a poorly maintained freight line.  There would need to be a properly signalled junction at Bere Alston - surely not just the originally proposed ground frame - and 90 mph line speed wherever the topography allows north of the Tamar bridges/RNAD.  Reopening the c.18 miles from Crediton to Okehampton to passenger standards included 11 miles of new track and cost £40 million with minimal expenditure on station works and signalling.     The distance to Tavistock is less (c.6+miles from Bere Alston) but any works will be much more extensive with a new station needed at Tavistock let alone clearing the very heavily wooded sections of the route, dealing with whatever might be needed in the 603 yards of Shillamill Tunnel, providing proper formation and drainage etc throughout plus bridgeworks/replacement of bridges.  Then upgrading the line between St Budeaux and Bere Alston in order to raise line speeds and providing signalling of some sort beyond a piece of wood for a train staff and a ground frame at Bere Alston.   As political support remains strong it could potentially happen after more than 30 years since it was first properly examined but in present national economic circumstances it must be questionable and will in part depend on the Parliamentary constituencies likely to benefit from it especially as the cost looks as if it must inevitably increase.

 

As already noted the centre part between Okehampton and Tavistock has long been done to the nth degree on RMweb and I continue to regard it as too expensive for what it would give with minimal advantage in providing an alternative that could actually be used as a proper emergency alternative to the coastal route.  And as the Captain has noted above any expenditure on it must not detract from building increased resilience into the coastal route.  If it were my money at stake I'd still go for the best alternative of all and head inland between Exminster/Powderham  and a point a few miles east of Hackney yard which would also offer the advantage of reduced journey times for long distance trains while leaving the coastal route served by local services.

[mdvle]

On 05/01/2022 at 09:37, Not Jeremy said:

Could this be the beginning of something big in the West Country?

 

https://join-up.uk/

 

Unlikely, unless the consultants can create a magical solution.

 

Whether it is deliberate or ignorance the creator of that site is using 10 year out of date sums on the costs.  Reopening to Tavistock isn't £18m as claimed but rather it had risen to £94m(*) when Devon (wisely) abandoned the idea several years ago

 

Now maybe London will be extremely generous with funding at some point, but I suspect the current point is to make it look like they are doing stuff around the UK by portioning out small amounts of money to various consultants.

 

* - https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/beeching-rail-cuts-fund-gives-3788899

 

On 05/01/2022 at 09:37, Not Jeremy said:

Either way, talking it up has got to be better than talking it down.

It's not about talking it down, it's about managing expectations.  Just ask the people in the north of England who had been promised a shiny new railway only to be told the government can't be bothered anymore.

 

Really, the solution to getting the LSWR line reopened is massive home building in the northern part of Devon - not the drop in the bucket 1,000 or so in Tavistock that started the current round of this but hundreds of thousands of homes - but I doubt the people of north Devon want that.

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by mdvle
removed the Facebook tracking the original poster included

[Not Jeremy]

That's all fair enough, but I think misses the point.

 

The website as set up may be by one person, but what is interesting is that he puts forward a "new" idea, ie the "early" replacement of the Northern route.

 

He provides a readable and interesting summary of why he thinks that is a good idea, and then (the clever bit) links through to all of the current functioning "pressure groups" that relate to the idea.

 

So, if you were a Whitehall mandarin with cash to throw about, and you looked at his site, then it might give you some ideas....

 

Now I know that is unlikely, but the point holds that he has provided a good focus on a concept that is not dead in the water or impossible, and moreover is somewhat in the politicians focus.

 

Because:

 

1. They still face the issue of long term rail resilience into Cornwall.
2. They have spent a lot of taxpayers cash on reopening the major part of the route to Okehampton and are bound to be seeing how it goes.

 

And it is going well.

 

As enthusiasts we have a tendency to drill down into detail, which is absolutely fair enough, but in the real world ideas (good or bad) are rarely pushed forwards on the back of sweating the details.

 

It is the idea that is the thing, which is what I think he has put forward intelligently and cleverly.

 

Time will tell, and in the meantime we have Okehampton back on the network, which some people said would never happen.

 

So, I am not trying to re-ignite any previous argument or discussion,  just flag up an interesting development that might influence what happens.

 

Simon

 

 

[figworthy]

8 hours ago, Not Jeremy said:

So, if you were a Whitehall mandarin with cash to throw about, and you looked at his site, then it might give you some ideas....

 

 

But don't overlook "Not Invented Here" and "Not proposed by overpaid consultants"

 

Adrian