OHE warning signs on brake vans

[spikey]

When did the small red-on-white "Danger overhead live wires" signs start appearing on brake vans?  I have a Bachmann BR 20T brake in bauxite with them on and I can't remember if that's kosher for very early 1960's. 

[Phil Bullock]

None in this early 60s clip

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=802G0RfM7qM

 

But might vary by area of operation.....

 

[The Johnster]

They would have appeared at around the same time as on stock in general, as the signs were sticky back and put on in yards by wagon examiners.  A feature of brake vans was that the interiors had a larger version inside the cabin on the wall behind the stove exhorting the guard not to raise the stove pipe.  I cannot remember a brake van stove pipe that wasn't resolutely jammed in position anyway, so it seemed a bit superfluous when I was working on the railway in the 70s.  Raising the pipe to contact the 25kv OLE would have been an interesting way of lighting the stove, though, as well as a possible method of illuminating the van interior at night...

Edited February 16, 2020 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

FWIW it's just occurred to me that I never saw the warning flash signs on GW/WR toads in service, which may help to date things.  I'd say that very early 60s would not have them, but don't hold me to it!

[spikey]

Thanks gents.  T

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

... I'd say that very early 60s would not have them, but don't hold me to it!

 

That'll do me, and the BV in question will now find its way onto Ebay.  This has though got me wondering just how reliable my memory is, so the follow-on question now is - what's the general rule for the colour of brake vans 1948 to 1960-ish?

[kevinlms]

28 minutes ago, spikey said:

Thanks gents.  T

 

That'll do me, and the BV in question will now find its way onto Ebay.  This has though got me wondering just how reliable my memory is, so the follow-on question now is - what's the general rule for the colour of brake vans 1948 to 1960-ish?

Grey for unfitted, bauxite for fitted or piped.

Unless an ex-LMS vehicle soon after nationalisation, in which case bauxite, even if unfitted. 

[The Johnster]

If you don't want to put it on ‘Bay, painting out the signs in bauxite should be straightforward. 
 

BR used grey for unfitted and bauxite for fitted or piped freight vehicles, including brake vans, from 1948 until the introduction of the ‘Railfreght’ livery in the 70s, and most brake vans carried grey or bauxite until withdrawal, some in the 80s.  Very few brake vans were actually fitted with vacuum (or air but this is not relevant to the early 60s) brakes, as of course there is no need on a vehicle manned by a guard who can apply the handbrake.  The majority were ‘through piped’, allowing them to be used in fitted or part fitted trains with fitted vehicles behind them. 

Vehicles carried pre-nationalisation liveries for some time after 1948, and as kevinlms says, ex LMS ones would have carried that company’s bauxite livery, which was a darker shade than the BR livery.  Exact shades are notoriously difficult to pin down; paint supplies were unreliable in the post war austerity period and much making do with whatever you could get was common.  

[brossard]

Vacuum pipes were either red or white depending on whether the van was fitted or through piped.  I believe white was through piped. 

Weathering would like have quickly obscured the colours I guess.

 

My repainted Dapol BR 20T brake carries flashes but I copied that from a Dapol picture.

 

John

[Fat Controller]

10 minutes ago, brossard said:

Vacuum pipes were either red or white depending on whether the van was fitted or through piped.  I believe white was through piped. 

Weathering would like have quickly obscured the colours I guess.

 

My repainted Dapol BR 20T brake carries flashes but I copied that from a Dapol picture.

 

John

White was the colour for through pipes. I do wonder if it's a UIC standard, as SNCF staff refer to vehicles with through pipes as being 'conduite a blanche'

[The Stationmaster]

22 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

White was the colour for through pipes. I do wonder if it's a UIC standard, as SNCF staff refer to vehicles with through pipes as being 'conduite a blanche'

The colour of the vacuum pipe stand pipes was officially changed in 1954 although quite likely the change might have begun a little earlier.  Previously blow through (i.e. piped only) vehicles had red stand pipes and fitted vehicles had black stand pipes.  

[The Johnster]

Thanks Mike; this is pertinent to Cwmdimbath’s stock, much of which has black brake pipes because I haven’t got around to painting them them yet.  The Dimbath Valley Railway board will review policy at the next board meeting.