KRModels announce N gauge SHARK ballast brake van

[Bucoops]

8 hours ago, John M Upton said:

 Many thanks for confirming this.  I shall be correcting he who informed me incorrectly and I have put my name down for a Shark (I actually want two by the way).

 

I believe the quote being referred to is this:

 

"KR Models Right now we only have 2 active projects. We doubt any of the N scales will ever come to fruition due to a lack of interest."

 

So I can understand the deduction from that the active projects are the Fell and GT3. Since then the opening of EOI for the King has of course been announced, leaving the Shark as one of the ones with a lack of interest?

 

The quote is from KR Models' facebook page asking about ideas for wagons.

[John M Upton]

Indeed. I did a bit of digging around and it seems that the person who reposted to the N Gauge Forum FB group took the quote wholly out of context.

 

Seen within context you can see that it refers to N Scale Fell and GT3 in N looking unlikely.

 

Good news about the King too, not my area/era but welcome nonetheless. 

[KR Models]

5 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

Seen within context you can see that it refers to N Scale Fell and GT3 in N looking unlikely.

This is correct. The GT3 and Fell N Gauge expressions have been less than successful, nevertheless we have kept them up for people to show interest.

[Paddy]

Hi Keith,

 

My advice would be to start with something small like the Shark and get it to market.  Deliver a quality product and on time to build credibility (like RevolutioN).  Sadly N gauge modellers have been let down too many times and are no doubt reticent to commit to an expensive loco unseen.

 

If RevolutioN announces a model then I have no worries about it being delivered or the quality of the finished model.

 

This is in no way meant as a slight on KR Models but rather you are suffering from those who have gone before.

 

I wish you every success with all your projects and I have certainly expressed an interest in the Shark.

 

Just my 5c worth,

 

Kind regards
 

Paddy

 

 

 

 

[KR Models]

6 hours ago, Paddy said:

Hi Keith,

 

My advice would be to start with something small like the Shark and get it to market.  Deliver a quality product and on time to build credibility (like RevolutioN).  Sadly N gauge modellers have been let down too many times and are no doubt reticent to commit to an expensive loco unseen.

 

If RevolutioN announces a model then I have no worries about it being delivered or the quality of the finished model.

 

This is in no way meant as a slight on KR Models but rather you are suffering from those who have gone before.

 

I wish you every success with all your projects and I have certainly expressed an interest in the Shark.

 

Just my 5c worth,

 

Kind regards
 

Paddy

 

 

 

 

As we have announced expressions for multiple project, that does not mean they are in active development. The only two that are is the GT3 and the Fell, once the GT3 is in peoples hands, we will start moving towards another model to push into active development, and we have a few candidates for that. 

 

Expressions are to gauge interest, they aren't indicative of when a model is going to start development or even if it will at all. We just want to see how many people would be interested in one if we were to make one. Thats all.

[msw2009]

On 24/06/2020 at 12:38, Paddy said:

Hi Keith,

 

My advice would be to start with something small like the Shark and get it to market.  Deliver a quality product and on time to build credibility (like RevolutioN).  Sadly N gauge modellers have been let down too many times and are no doubt reticent to commit to an expensive loco unseen.

 

If RevolutioN announces a model then I have no worries about it being delivered or the quality of the finished model.

 

This is in no way meant as a slight on KR Models but rather you are suffering from those who have gone before.

 

I wish you every success with all your projects and I have certainly expressed an interest in the Shark.

 

Just my 5c worth,

 

Kind regards
 

Paddy

 

 

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more with Paddy's comments.  Good luck to KR Models - I've just expressed an interest and will certainly be in for 1 or 2. 

 

Production of a good quality n gauge Shark would, I'm sure, be an enormous boost to the King project.

 

Mark

 

 

[KR Models]

32 minutes ago, msw2009 said:

 

Couldn't agree more with Paddy's comments.  Good luck to KR Models - I've just expressed an interest and will certainly be in for 1 or 2. 

 

Production of a good quality n gauge Shark would, I'm sure, be an enormous boost to the King project.

 

Mark

 

 

 

An expression of interest is just that.  You have expressed an interest in a certain model.  There is no point producing a model that isn't going to sell.  Therefore, we set up EOI to test the market, if no interest, then that's where it stays.  It is business suicide to produce a model, invest all the time and money, if there is no market.  Our business model is working fine right now.

[Paddy]

Hi Keith,

 

I agree with your comment about "business suicide",  I am not for one moment suggesting you should go off and create a King (or other large/expensive projects) with fingers and everything else crossed.  My point was about building credibility in the market and producing something relatively limited like the Shark seems a sensible way of doing this i.e. a £20+ model.  This is the sort of money where I (and probably other people) would be willing to take a punt on you.

 

If the Shark arrives on time, budget and is a good model then I for one would be more interested in backing the King proposal.

 

If your business model is working then good for you and as I said before, I wish you and Michael every success.

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

[KR Models]

6 hours ago, Paddy said:

Hi Keith,

 

I agree with your comment about "business suicide",  I am not for one moment suggesting you should go off and create a King (or other large/expensive projects) with fingers and everything else crossed.  My point was about building credibility in the market and producing something relatively limited like the Shark seems a sensible way of doing this i.e. a £20+ model.  This is the sort of money where I (and probably other people) would be willing to take a punt on you.

 

If the Shark arrives on time, budget and is a good model then I for one would be more interested in backing the King proposal.

 

If your business model is working then good for you and as I said before, I wish you and Michael every success.

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

This is why we announced the Shark Brake van first, If, for whatever reason, the Shark van doesn't receive enough orders after the EOI met its target goal for us, then refunding the money wouldn't be too much hassle, If we do meet the orders, then the project wouldn't take too long to actually make, cleaning up the CADs would be an easy task, and by the point production finishes the current pandemic situation should have eased up substantially by then. - Michael

[Crepello]

Really looking forward to these Sharks. I had 3 on order with DJ so will repeat with KR. Bring 'em on!

[bluedepot]

same.  i ordered 2x dutch and 1x loadhaul. 

 

tim

 

[class8mikado]

Since the Mermaids sold like hot cakes there must be a demand for a few sharks...!

[Pre Grouping fan]

EFE rail just announced a batch of Sharks. Wonder if they are related to KR Models attempt bring the model to market? 

[RichardT]

1 hour ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

EFE rail just announced a batch of Sharks. Wonder if they are related to KR Models attempt bring the model to market? 

Or alternatively, they might be related to the proverb “he who hesitates is lost”.  I can absolutely understand proceeding cautiously with EOIs for developing a new locomotive.  But honestly, dithering about for over a year with multiple EOIs for producing a common four wheel wagon, which would have served as an ideal “flag flyer” for a new entrant to N?
 

Of course, I’m probably completely wrong, and this is KR finding a cunning new way to market via EFE. In which case, given the success of the class 17, perhaps an N GT3/Fell may yet see the light of day?  

RT

[AY Mod]

25 minutes ago, RichardT said:

and this is KR finding a cunning new way to market via EFE.

 

It's not. It's a project which has been underway for quite a while.

[mdvle]

5 hours ago, RichardT said:

I can absolutely understand proceeding cautiously with EOIs for developing a new locomotive.  But honestly, dithering about for over a year with multiple EOIs for producing a common four wheel wagon, which would have served as an ideal “flag flyer” for a new entrant to N?

 

A well established manufacturer (or even retailer with a healthy business) can easily afford to take the risk on the development and tooling costs of a common four wheel wagon.

 

When you are a new entrant, you can't afford to be so ambitious.  Yes, a wagon costs less to bring to market than a loco (though perversely it also generates less revenue given market expectations on price and our bias towards buying locos), but it is still enough money to end a new company if the product fails to cover the costs.

[RichardT]

19 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

A well established manufacturer (or even retailer with a healthy business) can easily afford to take the risk on the development and tooling costs of a common four wheel wagon.

 

When you are a new entrant, you can't afford to be so ambitious. 

Fair enough.  My remark was solely based on the previous example in N of Mathieson Models and his cottage industry range of (very fine) rtr coal wagons.

 

Anyway, from what Andy York has just said, the matter is now academic for KRM and their cash-flow. Unfortunately I suspect that there’s not enough room in the N market for two Sharks. (The brake vans, that is...)

 

Cheers, RT

Edited November 3, 2020 by RichardT
N

[KR Models]

5 hours ago, RichardT said:

Or alternatively, they might be related to the proverb “he who hesitates is lost”.  I can absolutely understand proceeding cautiously with EOIs for developing a new locomotive.  But honestly, dithering about for over a year with multiple EOIs for producing a common four wheel wagon, which would have served as an ideal “flag flyer” for a new entrant to N?
 

Of course, I’m probably completely wrong, and this is KR finding a cunning new way to market via EFE. In which case, given the success of the class 17, perhaps an N GT3/Fell may yet see the light of day?  

RT

What "mdvle" said above is what stands to be the case for us, we simply cant afford to fund the entire project off our own backs, especially if the project is completed and we don't even break even. We need to be able to minimize the risk we take on when it comes to starting a project and the EOI's achieve this by showing us how may customers/models we are likely to have/sell.

 

As for the prospect of an N gauge GT3 or Fell, right now it is looking very unlikely.

 

5 hours ago, RichardT said:

Of course, I’m probably completely wrong

And don't beat yourself up, it definitely isn't the worst thing I've read about us on here.

[bluedepot]

oh well bad luck on this one kr 

 

best of luck with your other ventures

 

 

tim

[dpgibbons]

Indeed. It seems that small manufacturers shy away from popular prototypes for fear of being gazumped by the big players.

[black and decker boy]

Or on the assumption that the factory that holds the tooling was discussing with both KR and EFE, maybe KR became aware of this weeks announcement some time ago and rightly stepped back without incurring costs but whilst maintaining silence on the other party.

[chris p bacon]

2 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

maybe KR became aware of this weeks announcement some time ago and rightly stepped back without incurring costs but whilst maintaining silence on the other party.

 

Unlikely, The EOI page is still open on the website.

[KR Models]

1 hour ago, chris p bacon said:

 

Unlikely, The EOI page is still open on the website.

No, its not.

[woodenhead]

No King either now - no N gauge at all.

[chris p bacon]

10 minutes ago, KR Models said:

No, its not.

Your reply is rather disingenuous as It was live at the time of posting.