KRModels announce N gauge SHARK ballast brake van

[John M Upton]

19 hours ago, KR Models said:

These CADS are not DJ's anymore, they are ours and the only thing DJ can do is watch as our project succeeds where his failed.

 

Is it just me who imagined maniacal laughter when reading this bit?

 

Whatever, I wish KR Models tbe best of luck and look forward to finally seeing a RTR Shark on my workbench....

[Ed-farms]

12 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

 

Is it just me who imagined maniacal laughter when reading this bit?

 

Whatever, I wish KR Models tbe best of luck and look forward to finally seeing a RTR Shark on my workbench....

 

The crazy thing is the tooling exists, I held a sample in October 2018 and looked at a painted sample - I did try and persuade dave jones to let me run it on my layout (just across from his stand) but he didn't let me.

[mdvle]

1 hour ago, Ed-farms said:

Sadly I fear crowd funding these will be a bad move and fail. KR Models will have to find a way to get these tooled up without deposits as people will be wary of paying up front, and based on the GT3 if it doesn't reach its figure it won't go into production so its catch 22

 

My perspective - if a company/person had the money to pay to tool up a model without crowd funding, they would.  Crowd funding is a lot of work and hassle and not something to choose if there are alternatives. 

 

So it's up to the N market to decide if they want this model or not.

 

If the market doesn't want to pay for it to be crowd funded, then there won't be a model.

[mdvle]

1 hour ago, Ed-farms said:

 

The crazy thing is the tooling exists, I held a sample in October 2018 and looked at a painted sample - I did try and persuade dave jones to let me run it on my layout (just across from his stand) but he didn't let me.

 

I think all we can say is that at some point tooling existed, whether it still exists is another matter given how things work/change in China.

 

It may also be that if the tooling exists it may be too difficult/expensive to obtain, particularly if both the possessor in China and the liquidator of DJModels UK assets claim ownership.

[Roy L S]

For clarity, how does one express an interest? Subject to appropriate livery(ies) being available to cover my preferred modelling perid, and the pricing not too extortionate I would happily commit to a couple and even take a punt by funding all or part up front if required. 

 

People being reluctant to commit to crowdfunding these models after the DJM debacle (and indeed from the look of it losses attributable to Little Loco company for different reasons) is understandable but it is maybe unfair to tar everyone with the same brush? 

 

Roy

 

[mdvle]

1 hour ago, Roy L S said:

For clarity, how does one express an interest?

 

For now, wait.

 

This became public early thanks to the ad in a magazine, as Andy Y stated it wasn't supposed to go public until March 2nd and thus it is unlikely the full information will be available until then.

 

Also, on the 15th they posted to their Facebook page that they were going on holiday for a week, and so don't expect much in any activity until next week at the earliest.

[KR Models]

1 hour ago, mdvle said:

 

For now, wait.

 

This became public early thanks to the ad in a magazine, as Andy Y stated it wasn't supposed to go public until March 2nd and thus it is unlikely the full information will be available until then.

This is correct. As such, the EOI wont be open until after that date.

 

1 hour ago, mdvle said:

 

Also, on the 15th they posted to their Facebook page that they were going on holiday for a week, and so don't expect much in any activity until next week at the earliest.

Half true, I (Michael) am still working.

[dpgibbons]

 

8 hours ago, mdvle said:

My perspective - if a company/person had the money to pay to tool up a model without crowd funding, they would.

 

Crowdfunding isn't just about raising money, it's also about reducing project risk. Even if the manufacturer has the money they might well choose to secure sales upfront through crowdfunding.  All the more so if they are an individual faced with a six-figure investment. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by dpgibbons

[JSpencer]

13 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

 

 

Crowdfunding isn't just about raising money, it's also about reducing project risk. Even if the manufacturer has the money they might well choose to secure sales upfront through crowdfunding.  All the more so if they are an individual faced with a six-figure investment. 

 

It is not the only way. Accurascale allows you to pre-order and either pay fully or partially pay for items before they arrive. Or you can wait for release and buy later. Or you can ask people to buy you a gift card from their site (like I did with my wife for xmas present in 2018 - that I have not used yet). Giving buyers a wide variety of choices + building up an excellent reputation doubtless helps bring in some advanced revenue to aide development. 

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by JSpencer

[D9020 Nimbus]

The problem with KR Models is that they have announced lots of things but delivered nothing. DJM had delivered something and still went under. Accurascale and Revolution Trains have a record of success several times over.

 

That said, how do you get a reputation for delivery in the first place? When Revolution Trains started the recent failures hadn't occurred. Nevertheless, a 'Shark' isn't a big investment and work already exists so I will back it.

[mdvle]

4 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

The problem with KR Models is that they have announced lots of things

 

You have an interesting definition of "lots of things".

 

The GT3 was announced Nov 2018, taking expressions for OO and N (so first 2 items).

 

As the N GT3 is not on their website I assume there was insufficient interest, but the OO GT3 went from announcement to sample in 12 months which is pretty good all things considered.

 

The Fell was announced, expression of interest for N and appears is going ahead for OO (so second 2 items).

 

Thanks to the early ad we know the shark is proposed for N, and the rumours of a steam loco proposal.

 

So currently 3 items (1 in production, 1 in getting funding, 1 in expressions of interest) with it appears another 2 items to be added in a couple of weeks.

 

Don't know that I would personally call that "a lot of things"

 

4 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

but delivered nothing.

 

For a company that has been public for 15 months, and is working by crowdfunding, I don't see that as a problem (in many ways it would be unrealistic to expect them to have delivered something already - the only way to deliver in under a year would be to be self funding so the tooling was in progress/done at announcement).

 

Don't know the schedule, and how the situation in China will have impacted it, but a guess would have the first model delivered by Warley 2020.  Again, not bad even if slightly longer for a crowd funded venture.

 

For reference, Revolution announced the Pendolino partnership with Rapido in November 2014 and didn't deliver the models until March 2018.  These things can take time, but so far (in large part because people putting their money up seems to have come much faster then for the Pendolino) the first KR Models project is moving at a good pace.

 

4 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

DJM had delivered something and still went under.

 

DJM had a lot of issues that aren't relative here, but needless to say the main issue wasn't announcing a bunch of products.

 

4 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Accurascale and Revolution Trains have a record of success several times over.

 

Revolution, yes.  Accurascale only sort of - they have yet to deliver a locomotive.  I suspect they will deliver a quality product, but until they do claiming they have a record of success is misleading.

 

4 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

That said, how do you get a reputation for delivery in the first place? When Revolution Trains started the recent failures hadn't occurred. Nevertheless, a 'Shark' isn't a big investment and work already exists so I will back it.

 

[Colin_McLeod]

On 19/02/2020 at 13:27, Ed-farms said:

 

Sadly I fear crowd funding these will be a bad move and fail. KR Models will have to find a way to get these tooled up without deposits as people will be wary of paying up front, and based on the GT3 if it doesn't reach its figure it won't go into production so its catch 22

 

It is my understanding (correct me if I am wrong) that the OO GT3 is in production with EOIs sought for a second run.

[KR Models]

1 hour ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

It is my understanding (correct me if I am wrong) that the OO GT3 is in production with EOIs sought for a second run.

Correct. The reason the N gauge one wasn't put into production, is because we didn't even reach 1/4 of our target figure to make it a viable product.

[PMP]

If the GT3 is in production, may I ask which drive option was chosen?

[KR Models]

57 minutes ago, PMP said:

If the GT3 is in production, may I ask which drive option was chosen?

We are waiting for the next test sample to arrive before we start conducting those tests, the samples that we used at Warley, despite the fact that they worked, weren't ready to conduct those kinds of rigorous tests. However we should have a definitive answer by the end of the month.

[PMP]

5 hours ago, KR Models said:

We are waiting for the next test sample to arrive before we start conducting those tests, the samples that we used at Warley, despite the fact that they worked, weren't ready to conduct those kinds of rigorous tests. However we should have a definitive answer by the end of the month.

 

This doesn't seem logical, as I read this (and the previous response), it appears the model is confirmed as in production, but the chassis drive design hasn't been finalised?

[Colin_McLeod]

Perhaps I caused confusion by saying "in production" when what I should have said was "definitely going ahead" 

 

Sorry Keith if I accidentally left a banana on the ground. I think everyone knows what is meant by your reply, including. I suspect, PMP.

[The Pilotman]

There’s already a thread dedicated to the GT3, chaps. As for the N Shark; excellent news! I’ll be in for some Dutch ones when the time comes. 

[adb968008]

On 19/02/2020 at 15:14, mdvle said:

 

I think all we can say is that at some point tooling existed, whether it still exists is another matter given how things work/change in China.

 

It may also be that if the tooling exists it may be too difficult/expensive to obtain, particularly if both the possessor in China and the liquidator of DJModels UK assets claim ownership.

All hypothetical and assumption but...if the manufacturer in China is the same manufacturer the DJ used, then accessing the tooling might not be hard... and as you may recall DJ was trying to patent his CADs before his downfall... so owning the cads here and having access to the tooling there would mitigate those issues and make it easy ?

You dont necessarily have to own the tooling to use it, just permission to use it. I’m sure there isnt much love lost in China for DJ Models either.

 

end hypothesis

Edited February 22, 2020 by adb968008

[PMP]

10 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

Perhaps I caused confusion by saying "in production" when what I should have said was "definitely going ahead" 

 

Sorry Keith if I accidentally left a banana on the ground. I think everyone knows what is meant by your reply, including. I suspect, PMP.

You suspect wrongly.

 

As a potential customer for a 2nd batch release, to see the ‘confirmation’ from KRM above that the models were in production without clarification of which chassis had been selected, I was surprised. The lack of that information meant I didn’t place an order for one of this batch.

Edited February 22, 2020 by PMP
Missing words

[KR Models]

1 hour ago, PMP said:

You suspect wrongly.

 

As a potential customer for a 2nd batch release, to see the ‘confirmation’ from KRM above that the models were in production without clarification of which chassis had been selected, I was surprised. The lack of that information meant I didn’t place an order for one of this batch.

Production implies that we are at the final stages and ready for delivery. We aren't, we are still working through the test samples to make sure the model is ready for mass production. Production should start around May and be ready for delivery not long after (though this is subject to change, of course).

 

So no, the model is not in production right now, the gearing system has not been selected at this very moment, and we are still working through the test samples to make sure the model is as good as we can possibly make it.

 

For now, thats all i'm answering on the GT3 on this thread. Feel free to message me personally at research@krmodels.co.uk if you want more info.

Edited February 22, 2020 by KR Models
Clarification

[PMP]

^^ I had a good look at the EP at Warley and liked what I saw.

[black and decker boy]

On 20/02/2020 at 20:46, mdvle said:

 

 

 

Thanks to the early ad we know the shark is proposed for N, and the rumours of a steam loco proposal.

 

 

 

 

As I have my copy of MR271 To hand, I’d say it’s not a rumour of an N Gauge steam loco proposal.

 

the ad clearly states an N Gauge King, shows a CAD render of the loco and has a quote from Keith Revell about how the King is a missing link in N Gauge

im not sure why that hasn’t gained its own thread, it’s hardly a secret.....

[The Stationmaster]

49 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

As I have my copy of MR271 To hand, I’d say it’s not a rumour of an N Gauge steam loco proposal.

 

the ad clearly states an N Gauge King, shows a CAD render of the loco and has a quote from Keith Revell about how the King is a missing link in N Gauge

im not sure why that hasn’t gained its own thread, it’s hardly a secret.....

Read the previous page of this thread where I asked if the embargo remained in respect of 'the other item' (although those of us who read MR know what it is).   AY Mod replied that it remains embargoed.

[AY Mod]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

AY Mod replied that it remains embargoed

 

Technically so as KR have not lifted any embargo but there's stuff all point me trying to stuff that genie back in the bottle so if anyone wants to create a topic they can do so. I just try to do the honourable thing but I wonder why sometimes.