RMweb Gold highpeakman Posted February 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2020 (edited) I have recently delved into my "Strategic Reserve" of old locos that have been left in a state of unfinished modification for a long time in an effort to resurrect what I can. Problem here is an old Hornby 9F tender drive. I put it on my rolling road to test and it initially seemed to run quite well but I left it running for a few minutes to "re bed in" and found that it slowed and stopped after about a minute and a half. I then left it for a couple of minutes and it ran normally again and then slowed and stopped after a similar period of time. This happens in either direction. I have now been through this sequence about eight times and always the same. Slow running or fast running produces the same result. I first assumed it must be some sort of heat problem making a bearing seize which then cools and releases? No nasty noises though and I find that I can hand turn the gears immediately after it stops and nothing feels tight. Also I can make it start running again very shortly after it has stopped (about 15 seconds) although it may slow and stop soon afterwards. A second identical tender and motor of similar age (70s or 80s?) is working fine. I have looked the motor over carefully and cannot see anything obviously wrong. Has anyone else experienced this and have any suggestions please? Edited February 17, 2020 by highpeakman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 (edited) I'm no expert but could the motor be in need of remagnetising? Is the motor warm/hot after each run. The other thought that occurs is an electronic component (the coil or capacitor for RF supression perhaps) misbehaving. If you can put an ammeter in circuit that might also provide some clues . Edited February 17, 2020 by Pacific231G 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Could be the controller cannot cope with the current draw, and its protection is cutting off supply. Check with the reliable runner to see if it will go immediately the problem child stops, 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold highpeakman Posted February 17, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2020 Thanks for the suggestion but I have assumed that a magnet problem would cause consistent behaviour and not something like this that changes over a minute or so? Happy to be told I am wrong though. The motor does not get particularly hot when running. I have checked the moment it stops and it does not feel hot. I am making sure I turn the power off at the moment it stops in case it burns out the coils though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold highpeakman Posted February 17, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: Could be the controller cannot cope with the current draw, and its protection is cutting off supply. Check with the reliable runner to see if it will go immediately the problem child stops, I am using a Gaugemaster series E and I guess this could be a possibility. I have had problems previously when driving old X04 motor locos. I will dig out my H&M Duette and try it. Thanks for the suggestion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold highpeakman Posted February 17, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: Could be the controller cannot cope with the current draw, and its protection is cutting off supply. Check with the reliable runner to see if it will go immediately the problem child stops, 12 minutes ago, highpeakman said: I am using a Gaugemaster series E and I guess this could be a possibility. I have had problems previously when driving old X04 motor locos. I will dig out my H&M Duette and try it. Thanks for the suggestion. Well, I dug the H&M Duette out from deep in the garage and have been running the problem tender drive happily for about 15 minutes. Looks like you hit the proverbial nail squarely! The Gaugemaster E is struggling to cope with the current draw which is obviously heavier than the other, supposedly identical, tender drive unit. While I have had problems before when running some old X04 motors I have never previously had any problems running Hornby Ringfield motors so this one must be just a bit heavier on consumption than usual. That's why I hadn't thought of that. Thank you for pointing me in that direction. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon G Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 It is possible that the 9F motor/chassis is a bit stiff, which would obviously increase the current required. I would check that everything is moving freely, give it a light lube, run again with the Duette for a few minutes, then try again with the Gaugemaster E. A Ringfield on a chassis in good condition should not overload the E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theakerr Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 FYI, I have seen one 9F tender drive unit that had the dreaded Marzac rot. Essentially it allowed/cause the wheels to go out of alignment. I am not saying that is what it is but just for info. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxUnpopuli Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) My ringfield units were fine (if noisy) but they were labouring after nigh on 20 years in storage. I removed the assembly from the chassis, then levered the wheels off one side and removed the remaining wheels on the axles from the axle tubes. I then used a jewellers screwdriver, some kitchen towel and some IPA to clean out the axle tubes. With the wheels off it's easy to remove the geartrain, which was thoroughly cleaned with IPA and replaced with a little oil on all the friction points. I relubed the axles with oil and reassembled, using a back to back gauge, and ensured the gear train meshed in the plane of the gearfaces. You might as well clean all the conducting faces of the loco-tender joint, and those from the pickups to the wheels on the loco - just in case there's a bit of added resistance in there. They (2 black fives, a Duchess and a Compound) run a little less hesitantly now... still bloody noisy though! Edited February 19, 2020 by FoxUnpopuli Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 When I serviced these for the local Hornby dealership/model shop, I used electrolube for the lubrication of the axles. After all, oil is an insulator, and pickup is via the wheels and axles. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 I had a Railroad Loco drive 9F with the Tender drive type chassis, no magnet or armature or gearing, which crumbled almost to dust with Mazak rot. The design was the same as my old 1970s one but the quality was s****e. We had a small OnTrack twin controller intended for N gauge which did this slow down trick, on 00 gauge. Its polyswitch was inadequate for any half decent load. I altered it so both circuits were controlled by one knob and combined into one output. It was better but still bad. I gave up and bought a Morley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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