RMweb Gold kipford Posted February 18, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2020 I have had my Photon for a while and have had good results on a number of different models. However this one is stumping me, I keep getting failed prints no matter what I do. It is a model of a waste bin container. The resin is Elegoo ABS like grey. The first two pictures show the model with its supports, note Chitubox by default only puts in about 8 supports. I have relevelled the print head and run XPFinder to check the print settings. Picture 3 shows the settings I am using. The two photos show what is happening, The same fault, this is the latest and worst. Anyone got any ideas? Thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdr Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 that's a major failure, are you still running your bed unsanded Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flubrush Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) Can you check the images in the .zip file from the slicer. It looks as though all the supports started printing, then there's nothing on the bad end until part way up the container side whcih then prints to the top. A check of the images will show if parts of the images are missing therefore causing nothing to be printed in parts of the body. [Later] Just thinking that it could be either part of your LCD screen or the LEDs underneath not working during part of the print. Jim. Edited February 18, 2020 by flubrush Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Personally I would add loads more supports and ensure there is a raft at the bottom of the supports. When you say Chitubox only puts in around 8 supports that will depend on your settings. I typically use medium supports at 70% density. A simple box results in this using auto: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold kipford Posted February 18, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) Tell me more about the sanding, I have just been running the machine as received, with no real issues up to now. Edited February 18, 2020 by kipford Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 I strongly advise against sanding unless you build plate is not flat. Failure of the supports to adhere to the build plate can be attributed to other causes such as ambient temporature, non-levelled plate, incorrect print settings or in your case, lack of support. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeysarefun Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) Can you put a raft under the supports? Following a few failures like you have there If I'm printing something that relies just on supports to hold it to the plate I now always use a 2mm thick raft . It seems a bit of a waste of resin but not as wasteful as failed prints - in both resin and time! Edited February 18, 2020 by monkeysarefun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold kipford Posted February 18, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 18, 2020 Guys thanks for the responses. I have no intention of sanding the print head, but the raft idea is great. Just running it through Chitubox now to add one. I will probably not be able to do another print until Friday. But I will report back the results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Try and get hold of the document linked from here: http://www.makex.com/2015/09/04/supports-guidance-for-beginners/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) I mentioned previously that ambient temperature can have an effect. With the current British temperatures I always warm up the resin bottle, build plate and resin vat on a radiator before starting a print. If the machine itself is also cold a microwaveable wheat pad can be used to warm up the lcd screen. When printing the model is pulled by the build plate raising and the print adhering to the FEP. There are a number of areas where this can fail: 1) The print and support pull away from the build plate. 2) The supports being too few/too thin so they break or pull away from the model. 3) The print pulls away from the FEP. In an ideal world the print pulls away from the FEP which is how the machine is supposed to work. Too few supports or two thin supports result in failure 1 or 2. If a box is placed horizontally above the build plate the cross section where the model adheres to the fep can result in the adhesion of the FEP being stronger than that of the supports on the build plate which is one of the reasons we hollow objects and angle them away from the horizontal. Sanding of the build plate is usually not required unless for some reason it is not flat. Check it for flatness by placing a steel rule across it and view against the light. If all else fails feel free to PM me the stl file prior to adding support and I will add support in my usual way and send you the result so you can compare. Edited February 19, 2020 by MikeTrice 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdr Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 13 hours ago, kipford said: Guys thanks for the responses. I have no intention of sanding the print head, but the raft idea is great. Just running it through Chitubox now to add one. I will probably not be able to do another print until Friday. But I will report back the results. i ran my machine with the original blue finish on the build plate for quite a while, but now and then a print would come unstuck or curve away from the edges. My bed was pretty flat so i didn't need to sand it to make it flat, i sanded the blue finish off and it improved the adhesion about tenfold. Now i need to make an effort to remove the print from the bed and all the failures i had before are history. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Mine is unsanded and likewise it takes effort to remove from the plate. Where I have had failures I have always managed to find the cause, usually a mistake on my part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I've had similar issues (and still do from time to time), I've found that increasing the bottom layer exposure time helps a lot - but if the bed levelling isn't bang on, nothing will save it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold kipford Posted February 21, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2020 I revised the supports using a raft and Mikes settings as shown in the first picture. Ran the print yesterday and got a full print. Only issue is it is slightly but with one corner raised up. This was not really visible until I took It off the build plate and removed the supports. It looks like the raft is slightly distorted but it is difficult to ascertain from the raft itself where I cut it off. The second picture shows the results, Note it does not sit level because I have not removed all the remains of the supports. Temperature wise, my printer is in an unheated brick workshop. The temperature was about 9 deg C when I started, with no pre-heat of anything, I just shook the resin. So nearly there, but not quite sure where to go now. I do not think it is the supports, is it temperature? Perhaps change the exposure and off times on the bottom layers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxUnpopuli Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) It looks like a closed box with no venting. As the print builds, it tries to create a vacuum inside the box - hence both the distortion and the collapse. Imagine the print building, and give the print a couple of vent holes... I would say in the base/underside, in the corner closest to you in the photo above with the red ring. Edited February 21, 2020 by FoxUnpopuli Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold kipford Posted February 21, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2020 Mark The box is vented underneath by 4 large slots as shown in the picture below. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) Hard to tell but from your earlier image of the box with supports some of the supports don't appear to actually connect with the model. Ignore. Optical illusion. Warming the resin ans build plate as mentioned in my previous response will help with the corner lifting. The rest is down to support placement Sometimes I use autosupport but quite often I like to have greater control over placement so end up adding supports manually. Even if autosupport has been used I often edit the results. Edited February 21, 2020 by MikeTrice Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold kipford Posted February 21, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2020 Mike The supports were generated by Chitubox not manually and they all connect with the model. Some of the positions seem a bit odd so I will have a go at another version with supports generated manually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 By manual I mean added one by one in Chitubox rather that using the autogenerate option. I am searching for a suitable model to illustrate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold kipford Posted February 21, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2020 Mike Its ok I understand the difference between autogenerate and manually added. Most of my prints I manually add the supports. Regards Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeysarefun Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 I'd be turning the print around 180 degrees and printing again and seeing if the issue occured again on the same end of the model or on the end that is now in the location on the printer that the faulty bit was previously. If the model comes out the same as this one its a problem with the file, If it occurs on the other end then its a printer issue - plate levelling, FEP or LCD. Might narrow it down a bit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold kipford Posted February 22, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2020 Quote 'd be turning the print around 180 degrees and printing again and seeing if the issue occured again on the same end of the model or on the end that is now in the location on the printer that the faulty bit was previously. If the model comes out the same as this one its a problem with the file, If it occurs on the other end then its a printer issue - plate levelling, FEP or LCD. Might narrow it down a bit? Good idea. Should have thought of that myself. Out of interest at what point do you change the FEP? Mine has a few marks (like nail scratchs) on it now. but they have not affected other prints. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeysarefun Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 11 hours ago, kipford said: Good idea. Should have thought of that myself. Out of interest at what point do you change the FEP? Mine has a few marks (like nail scratchs) on it now. but they have not affected other prints. I held out until the prints stopped working. Its surprising how scratched and foggy it got yet still worked. The second one has stayed in much better condition, I think mainly because I don't use a paper towel to wipe it out, but have changed to a microfibre cloth and bought one of those soft rubbery silicone kitchen spatulas from a bargain shop to scrape the resin out instead of the hard plastic scraper that came with the printer. PS - the replacement FEP sheet has an impossible to see protective sheet on it - prints work better once you realise that and peel it off... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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