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Mystery GWR 48xx Kit Built OO Gauge Model


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This is a request for help with a mystery model I've acquired, Class 48xx, no top-feed, assembled from white-metal parts and with a modest 4 wheel fixed chassis. Never having ventured beyond the relative safe areas of RTR this is a complete puzzle as there are no obvious makers marks to be seen.

 

Given the basic nature of the chassis, the natural thing to do is build a High Level kit but limitations in my skills and resources to name just two rule this out for me. Aside from the obvious need for a number change, helpful inputs and suggestions will appreciated.

 

1377639817_48xxBody.jpg.388e0df35134f6e1dd0f894d8c476d18.jpg651175510_48xxunderside.jpg.d15a458854c75f235879c67e6ba07f31.jpg1608243385_48xxinterior.jpg.6d6127546f0c8da9b98460210dc3b30c.jpg

 

 

1909171047_48xxMotorassembly.jpg.5e868e06e00b4503dcb19d531ae38bfe.jpgColin

 

Edited by BWsTrains
addition for clarity
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Hi Joseph,

 

That was one option I'd thought of and researched. There was a Topic here back in 2016 about assembling a very old K's 48xx kit; it had excellent photos.

 

I can say with certainty it's not that specific kit because mine has the chassis limited to the front 4 wheels, and that occupies just the front end of the body. The old K's kit had a chassis that reached right to the back with the trailing wheels mounted in it. As you'll see in my photos 2/3 the trailing wheels in my model fit to the body not the chassis. There are many other differences as well.

 

Colin

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10 minutes ago, BWsTrains said:

Hi Joseph,

 

That was one option I'd thought of and researched. There was a Topic here back in 2016 about assembling a very old K's 48xx kit; it had excellent photos.

 

I can say with certainty it's not that specific kit because mine has the chassis limited to the front 4 wheels, and that occupies just the front end of the body. The old K's kit had a chassis that reached right to the back with the trailing wheels mounted in it. As you'll see in my photos 2/3 the trailing wheels in my model fit to the body not the chassis. There are many other differences as well.

 

Colin

 

I can't recall seeing any other 14xx/48xx kit advertised back then (50s/60s). It could be that it is K's but they redesigned the kit at some point???

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I bought the K's 14xx around 1982/3 and the chassis was just like yours - a short 4 wheel one with the trailing wheels running in a casting attached to the body. As stated above the K's kit was in production for a long time, more than 30 years and there were various incarnations. The screw head in the centre of the drivers is another give away I believe although mine had the force fit wheels so yours may be a little older.

 

Much better built than mine though, and well worth a new hi-tech chassis I reckon!

 

PS - Wizard still sell the Comet chassis kit which although not as sophisticated as High Level, will be cheaper and simpler.

Edited by Barclay
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Definitely a K's loco though I have never seen this style of K's chassis used. The K's body is 2mm short, I used a Perseverance etched chassis. The Comet chassis will need a bit more surgery owing to its design, not seen a High Level chassis but I guess it also will need a bit of shortening

 

The improvement in running will be very noticable (bin the K's motor)

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Mine ran very badly - partly my fault I daresay, I was only 14 or something but the motor has a poor reputation and the K's gears were pretty crude. The wheels look quite decent though, and may be re-usable. Mine weren't much good. A new chassis would make a world of difference with a nice motor and a decent gearbox such as High Level. Does it run OK though? You know the old saying, 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'.

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Slightly OT, but 48xx had cast iron chimney caps, not copper...  And the 1920’s livery is incorrect for a 14xx series number; these were not used until the 48xx series was appropriated for oil fired 2-8-0s in 1947.  

 

The loco looks well made and finished, though, and a Comet chassis will give better running, more detail below the running plate, and a clear space in the cab for detail there. 

Edited by The Johnster
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Definitely K's. First whitemetal kit I built when I was about 12 or 13. The trailing wheel was in a casting that was meant to rotate but never did. I just glued it up in the end and ran it like an 0-6-0T lengthwise. Haulage power was adequate and could easily pull the old K's autotrailer which the Airfix version couldn't really manage.

 

The livery is correct as it's the preserved example when it was on the Dart Valley Railway in the 1970s and 1980s. Now on the SVR I think.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ilkestonian/5680976524/

 

https://westonlangford.com/images/photo/110975/

 

You could detail it with Mainly Trains parts, it's mainly the push/pull gear and pipes that it's lacking and probably a better safety valve cover. Available from Wizard who also make the Comet chassis.

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/?filter_2_railway_company=gwr-great-western-railway&filter_3_manufacturer=mainly_trains

 

Could also do with the window frames on the rear. You could really go to town on it as it's probably the best 14XX about apart from the hard to find Perseverance kit.

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/mt226/

 

 

 

Jason

Edited by Steamport Southport
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I built a k's one 45+ years ago and fitted a Perseverance flexi chassis to it and for some strange reason fitted the HP2M motor to it along with Romford wheels, works OK but lost its steps. I also bought one built to P4 standards again with a Percy chassis. In a box somewhere I have a Comet chassis, but as I said its 2mm to long so needs trimming down to size. The Percy chassis do away with the rear trucks

 

The older K's chassis were fine providing you kept the spring for the rear wheel. wheels and motors were the weak points of the kits, plus the chassis with stamped key hole axles holes were often a bit banana shaped as they were stamped out rather than drilled. Great little kits which are/were very popular

 

They also lend themselves to being easily converted to EM gauge, either using axle washers or my favoured route if not fitting an etched chassis is to fit a 40 tho plastic strip the the side of each chassis frame

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The body looks K's, The chassis, although short, looks K's, the wheels look like K's, the motor looks like K's, so I'd venture the model is a K's model, although built "differently"...

 

Perhaps it's a model of the recently discovered 48xx, which I happen to know is wedged in tight in the Big Spring, under the Severn Tunnel. 

 

What? You've never heard of it? It's famous around here, so it is...

Edited by tomparryharry
Very, very poor spellinge. Sorry.
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19 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

 

The older K's chassis were fine providing you kept the spring for the rear wheel. wheels and motors were the weak points of the kits, plus the chassis with stamped key hole axles holes were often a bit banana shaped as they were stamped out rather than drilled. Great little kits which are/were very popular

 

 

The 70s series 48XX chassis was rubbish.

The one in my kit had sides of two different lengths and the bends in different places.

I never got it to run well and the body parts didn't fit together as well as a Wills Finecast body, 2 of which I did about the same time.

 

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31 minutes ago, melmerby said:

The 70s series 48XX chassis was rubbish.

The one in my kit had sides of two different lengths and the bends in different places.

I never got it to run well and the body parts didn't fit together as well as a Wills Finecast body, 2 of which I did about the same time.

 

 

Agreed the 70's series were a bit hit or miss with the frames, which was the price paid for pre-quartered wheels, strangely enough they mostly worked fine. The 80's chassis was better but the wheels were easily damaged and the HM2P motors had a high failure rate. A great little loco though

 

Its a great pity that the Perseverance chassis has become unavailable (lets hope they become available again) as whilst the High Level kit is of exceptionally high quality its looks not to be one for the novice, The Comet chassis is a bit easier to build, but owing to the K's kit being 2 mm short either you need a set of etched buffer beams or (from memory) face a slightly difficult bit of cutting the rear assembly.

 

Wills kits were seen to be of slightly better quality, certainly a lot dearer, but I never had too many issues with the K's 14xx bodies  

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It looks to me like the rear axle arrangements have been changed.. Mine was an older kit with a pivoting trailing truck.  The thing is if you support the body on the trailing axle and let the main chassis float and pivot you can get a really nice running chassis which can cope with uneven track.  Domething the RTR versions can't manage.  I would re motor the K's chassis if the motor has died as a first step.

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I did find putting pickups on the trailing wheels reduced the tendency to kangaroo when power was applied due to the loco lifting the front wheels losing contact and then getting it again as the wheels hit the deck.

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As said above, definitely K's, the body is to short because Ken Keyser obviously used the Roche drawing which has the distance between the smoke box door and the front buffer beam to short.  Put beside the Airfix version the difference is very apparent.  Pity really because Ken could easily have measured up a real one in service at the time he designed the kit.  However, i still use mine converted to P4 many years ago alongside an Airfix bodied one and if anyone mentions the length difference - Rule 1 applies!

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On 20/02/2020 at 14:47, tomparryharry said:

The body looks K's, The chassis, although short, looks K's, the wheels look like K's, the motor looks like K's, so I'd venture the model is a K's model, although built "differently"...

 

Perhaps it's a model of the recently discovered 48xx, which I happen to know is wedged in tight in the Big Spring, under the Severn Tunnel. 

 

What? You've never heard of it? It's famous around here, so it is...

 

I thought the lost one was somewhere in the South West. Tiverton I've heard, but nobodies seen it for decades....

 

 

 

Jason

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This is a loco I bought part rebuilt in P4 gauge, use it as a test loco when building track, I should really finish it off, certainly have tank fillers and vents. would need to fabricate the roof and sort the front steps out

96.jpeg.8158ef10e7123c41a38fb80d92ef8366.jpeg99.jpeg.cbca36fc0f333f7afea4f4b47198b59a.jpeg

 

I think this is a Perseverance chassis, in P4 with Beam compensation

 

97.jpeg.c155c30ef55460d70a84acf212182865.jpeg98.jpeg.eec317c3360c9c15380d27cb53eb4efa.jpeg

 

New nickle silver footplate vallance and buffer beams fitted, also new NS cab fronts and back made

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On 20/02/2020 at 13:55, Steamport Southport said:

You could really go to town on it as it's probably the best 14XX about apart from the hard to find Perseverance kit.

Surely not?

 

What about the sublime plastic body sitting on top of the execrable chassis that is the Hattons/DJM model?

 

That said, it's perfectly possible to make a decent model out of the K's kit. Like Hayfield, I also have one in P4, which I converted (with a Perseverance chassis) a few years ago from OO.

 

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2 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Surely not?

 

What about the sublime plastic body sitting on top of the execrable chassis that is the Hattons/DJM model?

 

That said, it's perfectly possible to make a decent model out of the K's kit. Like Hayfield, I also have one in P4, which I converted (with a Perseverance chassis) a few years ago from OO.

 

 

That's the problem. We've never had the definitive 14XX. I had hoped PDK would finally release their one. However it still doesn't look like much is happening.

 

The following kits are planned: SR D1/E1 4-4-0 (At the drawing stage), GWR 56xx (Drawings finished), 51xx, 14xx and 31xx, LNER P2 with A4 type front (At the drawing stage), LNER A5 4-6-2t, K2 2-6-0, Stanier 'Turbomotive' & Rebuilt Turbomotive 'Princess Anne'.

 

It does now have an entry on the lists though. PDK 70  GWR/BR '14xx' 0-4-2 TANK TBA

 

 

http://www.pdkmodels.co.uk/PL 5.htm

 

 

I've always thought the K's version captures the look very well even though it does have "issues". 

 

 

 

Jason

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Again putting a decent chassis under any of the K's locos improves them, as we are using more modern items which are an improvement on old technology.

 

I have a Wills 94xx with a RG4 motor and gearbox, sadly one set of wheels have come loose and need peplacing 

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